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RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 7:21:38 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Master2811


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Very nice! The higher people get educated the more likely the human race is goint to extinct. Me thinks at least a balance in procreation and dying of people is more preferable to our species. Or you might one day wake up in a world where there are way to less younger people taking care for the elderly, no? Or do you suggest a mass euthanesia of older people then?


We already have a non-replacement birth rate in the West. That's why immigrants are tolerated.

Also, have you noticed that with the industrialization of agriculture large families are no longer needed on our farms?


Immigrants will only help temporarily if they also get higher education in western countries, no?

We don't need at least a balance in procreation and dying of people because of farms, but to maintain a civil world in general.


World wide population is increasing exponantially. In the West people are living longer; in Asia and Africa the average age of populations is skewed downward. What you may think is needed and what is reality are two different things. And when has there ever been balance in Nature? Your position seems an unatainable utopian premise to me. Even China's one-child policy has apparently failed. And there have ALWAYS been immigrants throughout human history.

(in reply to Master2811)
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RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 7:29:44 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

The higher people get educated the more likely the human race is goint to extinct.


I think we have a while before this threat becomes acute.

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 7:33:32 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

In an interview today the President said the following

OBAMA: I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/09/481147/obama-marriage-2/



I wonder when the people so opposed to it will see that "equal rights" means equal for all, not just to the people who think, act and do as you say...or your church says.



That's it. He just "shot his whole "wad" and there's not much there.

LANDSLIDE FOR ROMNEY IN NOVEMBER!

Till then...


< Message edited by Arturas -- 5/9/2012 7:34:06 PM >


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RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 7:38:56 PM   
Master2811


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:


Immigrants will only help temporarily if they also get higher education in western countries, no?

We don't need at least a balance in procreation and dying of people because of farms, but to maintain a civil world in general.


How is it possible that the world had dramatically fewer people than now some five or ten thousand years ago and civilization did not cease, rather it flourished.
Anyone with a three digit iq and a pulse can see that we are overpopulated and most of the poorest of us are dying of malnutrition. Yet you don't seem to think there are enough of us so you don't want gays to marry because they wont make more people to be hungry.
Are you sure you are not homophobic? Your post certainly seem to echo that mindset.



In the past, I did some genealogy in my own family, people got a lot of children, that was needed because a lot of them died in infancy. Some of my ancestors got 20 children and only 8 made it to adults all the way back in the 16th and 17th century Holland. That is why the population was more or less in balance or steadily increasing. In the 20th century we had a population explosion. This was caused by more hygene, healthier food and medical inventions. At this point in history we are seeing a shift in populations. People grow older than in the past and therefore we need at least a balance in procreation and dying of people to maintain a civil world where older people are taking care for by the younger generation (taxes or actual direct care). And therefore promoting homosexual relationships will ultimately lead to disaster.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 7:39:44 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

LANDSLIDE FOR ROMNEY IN NOVEMBER!


We'll see. Till then . . .






_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 8:31:34 PM   
Master2811


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Joined: 5/4/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Given the newness of Master2811's profile, I have to wonder if this is a prankster having a bit of fun with us by parodying the antigay position. I'm having a hard time believing anyone actually espouses these views.


Just a little background information which might be useful. See, I am an old fashioned guy. I believe in the standards my parents and grandparents had and my earlier ancestors. I disagree totally with modern standards of raising children and the like. We see the results of progressive thinking daily in the news where children shoot other children, children arrested for shoplifting and so on. I see our "civilisation" going down the drain thanks to all progressive views which are hammered into our societies.

I came here in the first place to seek a lovely submissive/slave who preferably also believes in the old fashioned way. I seek a TPE like relation with this woman and why not add some exotic additions to this kind of relationship. I see no harm for society there. I therefore placed my profile on CM. After a while I became interested in the forum. I am conservative and damn proud of it. That is it and nothing more.



< Message edited by Master2811 -- 5/9/2012 8:33:23 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 8:40:20 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Obama coming out in favor of gay marriage, now that's a vote getter for sure.


Well... forgive me if I wait for a better sailor to make that declaration before I buy in.


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 8:45:23 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

He's pandering for votes, nothing else. He was against gay marriage before he was for it.


No,no,no servant this is an Obama thread....not a Romney thread( of course in Romney's case he was for it, before he realized he had to be against it to get the nomination ).


Mike, there's NO WAY they are willing to even go NEAR anything Romney's got to say on the issue I posted the links to FOUR of his positions in one message.

Here's more ... and this shit is fresh this week:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/opinion/frum-romney-errors/index.html?hpt=op_t1

Then two days ago, when pandering to, I mean campaigning in front of a group

Editor's note: David Frum is a contributing editor at Newsweek and The Daily Beast and a CNN contributor. He is the author of seven books, including his new first novel, "Patriots."

Washington (CNN) -- There is something tragic in the unfolding of Mitt Romney's campaign for president.

Here is a supremely intelligent and competent man, superbly qualified in so many ways for the highest executive office.

Yet through six years of campaigning for the presidency, he has allowed himself to be remade and redefined by his worst enemies.

It happened again last week.

The Romney campaign had hired a new foreign policy spokesman, Richard Grenell, a former aide to then-U.N. ambassador John Bolton.

Grenell is a fierce conservative who is also outspokenly gay. Grenell has taken strong public stances in favor of same-sex marriage. The Romney campaign knew all that when it hired him. Grenell had the competence to do the job, and nothing else mattered. As it shouldn't.

The hiring came under attack. As attacks go, this wasn't much: A couple of obnoxious blog posts and a tirade by a local radio host who runs a third-tier social conservative group. Still, the campaign opted to take cover. It reduced Grenell's visibility, keeping him off a conference call with media where someone might ask about the social-conservative criticism, that kind of thing.

Nobody at the campaign wanted to lose Grenell. In fact, he was repeatedly urged to stay. The campaign only wanted a discreet interval for the fuss to blow over.

The trouble was that Grenell got the job in the first place because he is a fighter. When the campaign wouldn't fight for him, he decided he wouldn't fight for it. He resigned. The hiring of Grenell interested only political insiders. His departure detonated one of Romney's worst news weeks.

Political professionals will remind us that there remain six months to November. By voting day, the Grenell story will have been long forgotten -- even by the comparatively small number of people who ever heard of it in the first place.

Maybe. But what a campaign does is paint an image of a candidate in the public mind. The Grenell flap added a stroke to that image: The Romney campaign yields to anti-gay intolerance. That stroke lands on top of other strokes, some fair, others unfair, but all together cohering into an ever-more focused picture.

For example: Romney did not initially support legislation that would allow all employers, religious or not, to drop birth control coverage from their health plans. That was introduced by Marco Rubio. Romney has campaigned with Rubio, and he's is much discussed as a possible Romney running mate. Although Romney has not made an issue of birth control, he will be wearing the issue in the general election.

A brand is not just something you make. It's also something that can happen to you if you don't speak out against it.

Follow @CNNOpinion on Twitter

At times, Romney has foreseen the danger and struggled to avoid it. He never intended to campaign in 2012 as an advocate of additional tax cuts. His carefully crafted economic plan of September 2011 proposed only to perpetuate the Bush tax cuts but nothing more. Through the early Republican primaries, however, Romney came under pressure to offer a bigger bid.

See Link Above For Remainder Of Article

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 9:10:45 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:


Marriage is a ceremony. Relationships are the commitment.

Why argue it any further than this?


We're not making too much noise are we... just turn the TV up if we are

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(in reply to ClassIsInSession)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 9:12:26 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Given the newness of Master2811's profile, I have to wonder if this is a prankster having a bit of fun with us by parodying the antigay position. I'm having a hard time believing anyone actually espouses these views.


Quite possible. I just find the pointer to biological law, without acknowledging there are OTHER types of evolution basically laughable.
Such as social evolution. which would support the emergence of gay marriage MERELY by the number of people in the society both desiring and being supportive of it.





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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 9:14:47 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Both my grandparents had a heterosexual relation till they died. That is my standard for a marriage which I wll not impose undemocratically on you. Same thing should be applied vice versa.


So WTF is your 'democratic' answer applied to them? Since you don't OWN society's moral, ethical, or social standards to the point WERE you get to dictate em to others? I'll hold off clicking 'ok' till I get to the end of the thread in case you clarified. But right now, I am wondering what you really mean since without act of law, they don't share the same degree of fulfillment.
Okay, I read your clarification and I am sufficiently unimpressed.
Good luck finding a gas-lighter girlfriend. You may want to try Gorean ... though that's probably a little OLD for your grandparents.


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Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/9/2012 9:36:32 PM   
TheHeretic


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One part of my position on gay marriage hasn't changed from the very first time I heard the subject raised - it sounds like a jobs program for divorce lawyers.

Beyond that, I have evolved to supporting full on gay marriage. You don't need a license from the government to make any commitment you like, to anyone you love, but there are certain rights, benefits, and legal protections that come with the package when you get that official okely-dokely registered down at the courthouse.

I'm a conservative. I appreciate the importance of traditional institutions that bind us together as a people, and generally think it is best not to go messing with them too hastily. I'm also a civil rights and equality kind of guy, so I was thinking a really well written law on civil unions could give us the best of both worlds, and allow the transition of the word to follow a bit behind the transition of the deed. Let some old people die off

It became clear to me though, that we weren't going to get such a law. Too many homophobes in high places, and too many more to be pandered to in low ones. Supporting the institution of marriage gets expensive, so the beancounters, both public and private, would want their say. Separate, and not equal, doesn't cut it.

And dammit, these are grownups who want full legal participation in society.

It doesn't matter what political calculation the administration made, or what law passed where, this month. This will have to go to the Supreme Court, and I hope they get it right.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/10/2012 5:17:42 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Master2811

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure

Calling Obama a panderer I'll except that bit damn what's that make Romney who has been on both sides of damn ear every issue. Could it be that like the rest of the country Obama has slowly changed his belief? The thing is the what's the argument against it? It's an equal protection issue. Gays like starights should have the right to civil marriage licenses.. No one is going to or can make a church marry them


For me the arguments against it is that it is not natural. Pardon me for being a conservative. Especially when it comes to raising children. That might well be against the UN Declaration of Children's Rights. Children have the right to know both biological parents.

I have nothing against gays/lesbians/bisexuals in person. I am not a homofobic person. What they do in their bedrooms is their business. But I will never consider a homosexual relation equal to a heterosexual relation. It is not equal because it can never lead to a normal pregnancy or procreation.

Rachel Maddow addressed this precise statement last night
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#47364243

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RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/10/2012 5:23:34 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

One part of my position on gay marriage hasn't changed from the very first time I heard the subject raised - it sounds like a jobs program for divorce lawyers.

Beyond that, I have evolved to supporting full on gay marriage. You don't need a license from the government to make any commitment you like, to anyone you love, but there are certain rights, benefits, and legal protections that come with the package when you get that official okely-dokely registered down at the courthouse.

I'm a conservative. I appreciate the importance of traditional institutions that bind us together as a people, and generally think it is best not to go messing with them too hastily. I'm also a civil rights and equality kind of guy, so I was thinking a really well written law on civil unions could give us the best of both worlds, and allow the transition of the word to follow a bit behind the transition of the deed. Let some old people die off

It became clear to me though, that we weren't going to get such a law. Too many homophobes in high places, and too many more to be pandered to in low ones. Supporting the institution of marriage gets expensive, so the beancounters, both public and private, would want their say. Separate, and not equal, doesn't cut it.

And dammit, these are grownups who want full legal participation in society.

It doesn't matter what political calculation the administration made, or what law passed where, this month. This will have to go to the Supreme Court, and I hope they get it right.



We agree.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/10/2012 5:28:04 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

One part of my position on gay marriage hasn't changed from the very first time I heard the subject raised - it sounds like a jobs program for divorce lawyers.

Beyond that, I have evolved to supporting full on gay marriage. You don't need a license from the government to make any commitment you like, to anyone you love, but there are certain rights, benefits, and legal protections that come with the package when you get that official okely-dokely registered down at the courthouse.

I'm a conservative. I appreciate the importance of traditional institutions that bind us together as a people, and generally think it is best not to go messing with them too hastily. I'm also a civil rights and equality kind of guy, so I was thinking a really well written law on civil unions could give us the best of both worlds, and allow the transition of the word to follow a bit behind the transition of the deed. Let some old people die off

It became clear to me though, that we weren't going to get such a law. Too many homophobes in high places, and too many more to be pandered to in low ones. Supporting the institution of marriage gets expensive, so the beancounters, both public and private, would want their say. Separate, and not equal, doesn't cut it.

And dammit, these are grownups who want full legal participation in society.

It doesn't matter what political calculation the administration made, or what law passed where, this month. This will have to go to the Supreme Court, and I hope they get it right.


Well said, Rich. Thanks!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/10/2012 5:29:02 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Master2811


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:


Immigrants will only help temporarily if they also get higher education in western countries, no?

We don't need at least a balance in procreation and dying of people because of farms, but to maintain a civil world in general.


How is it possible that the world had dramatically fewer people than now some five or ten thousand years ago and civilization did not cease, rather it flourished.
Anyone with a three digit iq and a pulse can see that we are overpopulated and most of the poorest of us are dying of malnutrition. Yet you don't seem to think there are enough of us so you don't want gays to marry because they wont make more people to be hungry.
Are you sure you are not homophobic? Your post certainly seem to echo that mindset.



In the past, I did some genealogy in my own family, people got a lot of children, that was needed because a lot of them died in infancy. Some of my ancestors got 20 children and only 8 made it to adults all the way back in the 16th and 17th century Holland. That is why the population was more or less in balance or steadily increasing. In the 20th century we had a population explosion. This was caused by more hygene, healthier food and medical inventions. At this point in history we are seeing a shift in populations. People grow older than in the past and therefore we need at least a balance in procreation and dying of people to maintain a civil world where older people are taking care for by the younger generation (taxes or actual direct care). And therefore promoting homosexual relationships will ultimately lead to disaster.



Please, before you get both feet so far into your mouth you will never get them out acquire a fucking history book that was written for someone beyond the fifth grade.
Your abject ignorance of human history is mind numbing.

(in reply to Master2811)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/10/2012 5:29:14 AM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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FR

Feeling a little impish this morning, so I can't resist sharing this.



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/10/2012 5:37:04 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Feeling a little impish this morning, so I can't resist sharing this.





That made my morning.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/10/2012 5:39:44 AM   
Mupainurpleasure


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total agreement even the the lawyers part. the bottom line is we are talking about a civil institution not a religous one. Religous marriage is a different animal and uneffected. Catholics don't consider divorced catholics who remarry married and they don't have to consider gays married. What's the difference in the end. No one but secular institutions will have to recognize a secular marriage

< Message edited by Mupainurpleasure -- 5/10/2012 5:40:13 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Obama supports Gay Marriage - 5/10/2012 5:43:57 AM   
Mupainurpleasure


Posts: 393
Joined: 4/12/2012
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There is something ironic aboiut a forum filled with people engaged in non traditional relationships and marriages argueing thet tradition dicates gay marriage be illegal.

(in reply to Mupainurpleasure)
Profile   Post #: 80
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