RE: Atkins diet

RE: Atkins diet (Full Version)

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Estring -> RE: Atkins diet (4/6/2004 5:38:20 PM)
Believe it or not, too much water can be bad for you. But it usually only is a problem if you are someone who works out extremely hard on a constant basis. It is best to drink sports drinks like Gatorade in that case. Most regular people get enough water through the food they eat and the liquids they drink. You should drink your water before you begin your workout sub. And try a sports drink while you work out. That may help.

iwillserveu -> RE: Atkins diet (4/6/2004 6:38:15 PM)
As someone who has had a kidney stone, the penalty for too much water cannot possibly be as bad as the penaly for too little.

Estring -> RE: Atkins diet (4/6/2004 6:58:26 PM)
Lol. Neither is good I would imagine. [;)]

MistressKiss -> RE: Atkins diet (4/6/2004 9:50:06 PM)
Ketone bodies are the end product of fat metabolism in the body. Ketonuria is common in the presence of starvation, low-carbohydrate diets, excessive vomiting, and diabetes mellitus. If the ketones show in your urine, then you know that your body is in a state of ketosis, and the body is burning fat. It's detected through what is called a multi-strip, and done routinely during a urinalysis. You can also get the strips that just show ketones. It can be a dangerous state for people with some health issues. [image]local://upfiles/10574/1C889D15ABBD491793E7E309B92F0495.gif[/image]

ModeratorOne -> RE: Atkins diet (4/8/2004 5:42:41 AM)
I will start off by saying I am not going to get into an argument over the Atkins way of eating on this board. If anyone seriously wants to discuss the pros and cons of this way of eating out of sincere interest and wanting to learn, you may email [email protected] and I would be happy to speak to you. I will also say that just because this way of eating works for me, it may not necessarily work for you. I have followed a low carbohydrate way of eating for over a year now, my kidneys haven't fallen out, my gallbladder isn't dead, my liver loves me and I have never been healthier in my life. I had a lipid problem when I began, my triglycerides were so high they couldn't even be measured. They were over 400. This was what I get for never eating any fat. At one point I was under 10g fat a day. The doc told me nothing could be done aside from medication. I was also hyperinsulinemic, and had a few other issues that could have been better. When I first heard people suggest Atkins I looked at them like their head was on backwards and they had 6 eyes. After seeing success with so many people I said what the hell and read the book. Due to my cholesterol problem I was on a severely low fat low calorie program and managing to GAIN weight, feel tired and sluggish all the time and suffered from depression. I was a major sugar addict. The idea of giving up pasta and rice was about impossible for me but what was even harder were these french twist, low cal, fat free sugar sticks that I ate regularly. I never thought I could do it, I got more and more depressed. I finally had a long conversation with a friend one evening and he was reading off the foods you can eat and was being totally supportive. He kept insisting that it really isn't that hard once you get past the first week. I finally agreed and just started the next day. I went on the internet and started doing research, I found a few wonderful low carb message boards that I subscribed to and read daily to this day. I created an account at www.fitday.com to track everything I was eating and I decided to really give it my full 110% The first 3 days I felt like death, on the 5th day I felt like a million bucks. Every part of me felt alive. After the first 6 months I realized that this has become my way of eating for life. It requires a good deal of work as far as cooking goes. I have thousands of recipes on file and always coming up with new ideas. I am happy with my food choices, I am not starving myself nor do I ever feel hungry or deprived. The big thing for me was not to try and make a low carbohydrate diet mimic my previous diet by loading up on highly processed, grossly overpriced low carb specialty junk foods. I don't eat low carb pasta or any of that other junk but instead I try and eat whole, raw natural foods with minimal processing like Atkins suggested. I eat more fruits and veggies than I have ever eaten in my life. I eat eggs, meat, fish and chicken. Currently I stay at around 25-30g of net carbs, sometimes more, sometimes less. This, for example is what I ate yesterday. 2 eggs fried in butter with daikon, scallion, spinach, peppers, mushrooms a slice of cheese and a couple of tomato slices. Lunch was a stir fry of chicken, broccoli, string beans, peppers, snowpeas, almonds, ginger, scallion, zucchini, and mushrooms with braggs aminos and some sliced avocado with a squeeze of lemon juice and black pepper. Dinner was macadamia and coconut crusted salmon with a squeeze of lime. Asparagus sautéed in olive oil and fresh rosemary and a nice spinach salad with some flax seeds sprinkled on. For desert I had half a cup of raspberries with some whipped cream. All of this and I was still UNDER 25g carbs. Total caloric intake 1538 Fat 114g -69% of calories Saturated - 45g 27% Poly - 15g 9% Mono - 45g 27% Carbs 51.8g 7% Fiber 28.36g Total Net Carbs 23.44 Protein 91g 24% If for desert I would have had something like sugar free gelatin and cream, or even without cream I would have been under 20g of carbs for the day. It isn't very difficult for me to turn down pasta, pop tarts and cornflakes (that are so devoid of nutrients that they need to be enriched and fortified with stuff to give people a reason to eat it) in favor of real unenriched whole natural foods. It is more work, but its worth it for me, and I am willing to put in the effort for my health. I eat steak, lamb, chicken legs with the skin on (my favorite cold breakfast). I don't eat eggs every day, for breakfast I have a huge variety of foods that I eat. Contrary to popular belief I don't eat bacon all the time, I don't cook it, but I will order it when I eat out. I don't load up on cured meats or pork rinds though I have fried up pepperoni before to throw on my spinach salads to give it some added crunch. I am not one to snack, because my meals are usually pretty big, and very satisfying but on days where I will eat smaller meals and snacks I eat foods like celery with natural peanut butter, or guacamole, almonds, or some berries. These are all Atkins foods! Most people that I know who follow Atkins, who really follow Atkins and not just say they are on Atkins because they dont eat bread, eat very similar to the way I do. 1 The only 2 places I disagree with the newer Atkins book is with the consumption of polyols (sugar alcohols) Maltitol has a high glycemic index and is partially absorbed. I rarely if ever eat the stuff and if I do its very little, and I count half the number of carbs in it towards my total carbohydrates. The other issue I have is with polyunsaturated oils being used for cooking. Those are both personal choices that I have made while doing my research. Also I will mention that the Atkins plan is 4 phases not just induction. On induction (the phase everyone quotes and has a heart attack over) you are limited to 20g of net carbohydrates a day. Which means carbohydrates after fiber has been deducted. The majority of those 20g should be coming from veggies and some non sugary fruits like avocado etc. After that you can choose to remain on induction for a longer period of time, if you have a lot of weight to lose (some do a modified induction by introducing other foods into your diet but remaining at 20g) or you can move into OWL (ongoing weight loss) which is where you introduce new foods into your plan starting with more veggies! This the phase where you introduce nuts, berries more cheeses etc. You increase your carb intake by 5g a week. After that comes pre maintenance where you introduce legumes, a few whole grains and more starchy veggies. At this phase you are working with your body to find the carb count you will be having to maintain for the rest of your life. After that comes maintenance where you are eating a huge variety of mostly whole, natural unprocessed foods. Lots of fruits and veggies, whole grains and of course meats, fish and dairy. In Atkins for life you can read more about maintaining. Most people that I know who are maintaining stay between 60-80g of net carbs a day. One of the things I really appreciate about the phases is that you take time with each food you introduce and you learn how your individual body reacts to it. You really learn to listen to the signals your body is sending you. For example I found that when I first introduced peanut butter into my diet I began craving it all the time I suddenly wanted to live on peanut butter and it triggered massive sugar cravings in me. I cut it out of my diet and reintroduced in a few months later where I was totally fine with it, and now I have peanut butter once a week or so. I no longer have sweet cravings, I am full of energy all the time, I finish my workouts with ease. I no longer have problems sleeping, my hair skin and nails are looking better than ever and all of the other health problems I was having are now gone. While I no longer pay much attention to my cholesterol levels my triglycerides are 53, my HDL is above 60 and my LDL is low :-) I will also add that while I no longer crave sweets and junk food, I will on occasion use natural (stevia) or artificial (sucralose/splenda) sweeteners. I use nut flours for a lot of my baking, and while it takes some practice, it can be a nice change. I also no longer view junk food (low carb or not) as rewards. I am no longer of the mindset that I have a good day at work and I should go out to eat to celebrate, or I accomplished something important and so I earned a food treat. Instead I think I have earned not to be eating these foods that my body doesn't like and to reward myself in different ways. I go shopping, get my hair and nails done, take a trip somewhere. It really is a mindset that you need to get into and care enough about yourself to make these changes in your life. It doesn't and shouldn't have to take willpower to reach a normal healthy weight. To make Atkins work for you, you need to be educated and disciplined. Discipline is not the same thing as willpower. Willpower is what you use when you are being tortured for information. Its what you will use when you are temporarily resisting your bodies natural cries while you are starving yourself on low calorie low fat diets. Willpower will fail in time and that is why most diets fail in time too, even when the dieter is disciplined and educated. Atkins is a natural, healthy and pain free way of eating and you will get to a healthy normal weight eating this way without willpower being used. It isn't about enduring something for a period of time. Its about educating yourself, learning alternate behavioral mechanisms and organizing your behavior through discipline to reach and maintain your normal weight. In short, it really is about making a lifestyle change. I know this is said so often that the words have lost all meaning, but it really is important that you "get" that everything you do or don't do will almost entirely determine how successful you are on the plan. If you are considering a low carbohydrate way of eating, the best piece of advice I can offer you is to educate yourself on the science behind low carbing. Become a sponge and just soak the stuff up. You need to learn how to make this work for you. Once you really understand the hows and whys, you will be in a better position to make decisions about what elements of your lifestyle might negatively or positively affect your weight. I also HIGHLY suggest that you take the time to work out a game plan. REALLY work out a game plan! Learn about what low carb veggies can be used to substitute high carb dish elements. Learn what your triggers are, and how to cope with them. Again, this all goes into making a lifestyle change but its so important to really really understand that. Remember, MOST people fail at diets. The reason they fail at losing weight is because they do something that isn't sustainable, and the reason they do something that isn't sustainable is because they never educated themselves. Without education you aren't in a position to retool your behaviors in a way that will allow you to maintain a healthy weight. I have seen many people say they will use Atkins to lose weight fast and then do something else to maintain it. These people make no sense to me. How do you expect to maintain your weight using a diet that didn't allow you to lose weight in the first place? You need to make LC livable and tailor it to your needs. Your weight maintenance program should be pretty similar to your weight loss program. To Shade Diva: Granular sweeteners usually have about 1 carb per packet due to fillers. Splenda, for example uses maltodextrin as a bulking agent. As far as ketosis and those strips go, there are many reasons why they wouldnt register ketones. I will post an article on ketones after this. There are also many reasons why you may have not lost weight and the diet drinks and artificial sweetner loading may have been one of the reasons. Eating low carb junk food and candy might be another and if you were eating foods with sugar alcohols you would have probably been eating more carbs than you thought. There are other reasons as well, but I will not get into them on this forum. If you actually wish to discuss it you may email the forum and we can look into it. Again, I will state, I am not going to get into arguments over this, nor am I going to stand here and defend my choice for eating the way I find to be healthiest for my body. What works for me may not work for you. If you sincerely want to learn about low carbohydrate eating you may email me and I can send you some information that will point you in the right direction. I am not going to create sample menus for people or give you the short easy version to follow. I will be happy to give feedback, support and information. You want it? earn it. I am not going to do it for you, you need to do it for yourself. PS: If you want to discuss the dangers of fats please read this before approaching me with the story of how your aunt Sue's neightbor dropped dead 3 days after starting Atkins. http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/skinny.html

ModeratorOne -> Ketosis and ketone testing strips (4/8/2004 5:45:50 AM)
http://www.lowcarb.ca/tips/tips011.html Ketosis & Ketone Test Strips By Doreen EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT KETOSIS ... 1. What are ketones? 2. How will ketosis help me to lose weight? 3. But, isn't ketosis dangerous? 4. How do the ketone test strips work, and where do I get them? 5. I'm following Induction strictly; why won't my strips turn purple? 6. Will I lose weight faster if the strips show dark purple all the time? 7. Does caffeine affect ketosis? 8. Will drinking alcohol affect ketosis? What are ketones? Ketones are a normal and efficient source of fuel and energy for the human body. They are produced by the liver from fatty acids, which result from the breakdown of body fat in response to the absence of glucose/sugar. In a ketogenic diet, such as Atkins ... or diets used for treating epilepsy in children, the tiny amounts of glucose required for some select functions can be met by consuming a minimum amount of carbs - or can be manufactured in the liver from PROTEIN. When your body is producing ketones, and using them for fuel, this is called "ketosis". How will ketosis help me to lose weight? Most reducing diets restrict calorie intake, so you lose weight but some of that is fat and some of it is lean muscle tissue as well. Less muscle means slowed metabolism, which makes losing weight more difficult and gaining it back all too easy. Ketosis will help you to lose FAT. Being in ketosis means that your body's primary source of energy is fat (in the form of ketones). When you consume adequate protein as well, there's no need for the body to break down its muscle tissue. Ketosis also tends to accelerate fat loss --- once the liver converts fat to ketones, it can't be converted back to fat, and so is excreted. But, isn't ketosis dangerous? Being in ketosis by following a low carbohydrate diet is NOT dangerous. The human body was designed to use ketones very efficiently as fuel in the absence of glucose. However, the word ketosis is often confused with a similar word, ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is a dangerous condition for diabetics, and the main element is ACID not ketones. The blood pH becomes dangerously acidic because of an extremely high blood SUGAR level (the diabetic has no insulin, or doesn't respond to insulin .... so blood sugar rises ... ketones are produced by the body to provide the fuel necessary for life, since the cells can't use the sugar). It's the high blood sugar, and the acid condition that is so dangerous. Ketones just happen to be a part of the picture, and are a RESULT of the condition, not the CAUSE. Diabetics can safely follow a ketogenic diet to lose fat weight ... but they must be closely monitored by their health care provider, and blood sugars need to be kept low, and stable. How do the ketone test strips work, and where can I get them? Ketone urine-testing strips, also called Ketostix or just ketone sticks ... are small plastic strips that have a little absorptive pad on the end. This contains a special chemical that will change colour in the presence of ketones in the urine. The strips may change varying shades of pink to purple, or may not change colour at all. The container will have a scale on the label, with blocks of colour for you to compare the strip after a certain time lapse, usually 15 seconds. Most folks simply hold a strip in the flow of urine. Other folks argue that the force of the flow can "wash" some of the chemical away, and advise that a sample of urine be obtained in a cup or other container, then the strip dipped into it. The chemical reagent is very sensitive to moisture, including what's in the air. It's important to keep the lid of the container tightly closed at all times, except for when you're getting a strip to take a reading. Make sure your fingers are dry before you go digging in! They also have an expiry date, so make note of this when you purchase the strips ... that's for the UNopened package. Once opened, they have a shelf-life of about 6 months -- you may wish to write the date you opened on the label for future reference. Ketone test strips can be purchased at any pharmacy, and are usually kept with the diabetic supplies. In some stores they're kept behind the counter, so if you don't see them on the shelf, just ask the pharmacist; you don't need a prescription to buy them. I'm following Induction strictly; why won't my strips turn purple? Ketones will spill into the urine ONLY when there is more in the blood than is being used as fuel by the body at that particular moment. You may have exercised or worked a few hours previously, so your muscles would have used up the ketones as fuel, thus there will be no excess. You may have had a lot of liquids to drink, so the urine is more diluted. Perhaps the strips are not fresh, or the lid was not on tight and some moisture from the atmosphere got in. Some low carbers NEVER show above trace or negative even ... yet they burn fat and lose weight just fine. If you're losing weight, and your clothes are getting looser, you're feeling well and not hungry all the time .. then you are successfully in ketosis. Don't get hung up on the strips; they're just a guide, nothing more. Will I lose weight faster if the strips show dark purple all the time? No. Testing in the darkest purple range all the time is usually a sign of dehydration -- the urine is too concentrated. You need to drink more water to dilute it, and keep the kidneys flushed. The liver will make ketones from body fat, the fat you EAT, and from alcohol --- the ketone strips have no way of distinguishing the source of the ketones. So, if you test every day after dinner, and dinner usually contains a lot of fat, then you may very well test for large amounts of ketones all the time. However this does not indicate that any BODY fat was burned. The strips only indicate what's happening in the urine. Ketosis happens in the blood and body tissues. If you're showing even a small amount, then you are in ketosis, and fat-burning is taking place. Don't get hung up on the ketone sticks. Does caffeine affect ketosis? This is questionable. There ARE a few studies that suggest caffeine may cause blood sugar to rise, with consequent effect on insulin ... The studies involve consuming 50 gm glucose orally, followed by a dose of caffeine. This is quite different from a low carber, who is consuming only 20 gm carbs, in the form of high-fiber vegetables, spread throughout the day. Many low carbers continue to enjoy caffeine-containing beverages with no serious impact on their weight-loss efforts. However, there are some sensitive individuals ... and persons who are extremely insulin resistant may need to restrict or even eliminate all caffeine. If you have been losing successfully then find your weight loss stalled for a month or two, and you are following your program to the letter, you might consider stopping all caffeine for a while, to see if that will get things started again. Will drinking alcohol affect ketosis? No and yes. The liver can make ketones out of alcohol, so technically, when you drink you'll continue to produce ketones and so will remain in ketosis. The problem is ... alcohol converts more easily to ketones than fatty acids, so your liver will use the alchol first, in preference to fat. Thus, when you drink, basically your FAT burning is put on hold until all the alcohol is out of your system. This rapid breakdown of alcohol into ketones and acetaldehyde (the intoxicating by-product) ... tends to put low carbers at risk for quicker intoxication ... especially if no other food is consumed to slow absorption. RESOURCES (click on the link at the top of this article for all the resources)

ModeratorOne -> RE: Cholesterol (4/8/2004 5:47:58 AM)
This is going to be pretty scientific in nature. I am going to quote Malcom Kendrick since he is pretty easy to follow. Anyone who wants this entire article can email me at [email protected] and I will send it to you. quote: Now, anyone who has read my scribbles before will realise that I don’t think the level of any lipid in your blood makes the slightest difference to the rate of CHD. But most other people do, so I think it is worth explaining why a high fat diet will automatically raise HDL and lower triglycerides. A fact, by the way, that seems to have created stunned surprise amongst many researchers when results from the Atkins diet were published. Which just shows that they need to go back and read their textbooks again. In order to understand why a high fat diet should, and does, raise HDL levels and lower VLDL levels (and may also lower LDL levels), you need to understand a bit about fat and sugar metabolism and the role of lipoproteins in your blood. Starting here. When you eat fat it is absorbed by the gut and stuffed into very large lipoprotein known as a chylomicron. The fat in a chylomicron is almost all stored in the form of three fat molecules attached to a glycerol molecule, a structure known as a triglyceride. Three fats and a glycerol = tri-glyceride. By the way, cholesterol also sits in chylomicrons as a co-passenger. (Anything insoluble in water/blood, such as cholesterol, has to be carried around in a lipoprotein) Chylomicrons are then released into the bloodstream and travel through the body losing chunks of triglyceride all the while as they pass fat cells. (Fat cells attack chylomicrons with a ‘lipase’ enzyme, chopping bits off). As this happens chylomicrons shrink, turning into Very Low Density Lipoproteins (VLDLs), which are otherwise known as… ‘triglycerides.’ How confusing is that? In fact, the nomenclature in this area must be the most confusing in all of medicine. LDL is known as ‘bad’ cholesterol HDL is called ‘good’ cholesterol VLDLs are named triglycerides… It’s little wonder that most people haven’t the faintest idea what anyone is talking about in lipid metabolism. Chylomicrons, VLDL, HDL and LDL are all lipoproteins. I wish that people would stop calling them things like ‘cholesterol’ and ‘triglycerides’, and ‘good’ cholesterol and ‘bad’ cholesterol. It really doesn’t aid understanding. Anyway, moving on. Apart from chylomicrons, the gut also sends out VLDLs de-novo, and the VLDLs do pretty much the same thing as chylomicrons, dropping off triglycerides here and there (mainly into fat cells) and shrinking. Quite what the difference is between a shrunk down chylomicron and a VLDL is, I don’t know. (By the way, just in case you’re wondering, VLDLs also contain cholesterol as a co-passenger. All lipoproteins have cholesterol in them) Not all chylomicrons and VLDLs travel round dropping off triglycerides. Some go straight to the liver where they are absorbed, broken down, and unpacked. And their contents are used to make other things the body needs. However, wherever they go, all of the ‘fat containing’ chylomicrons and VLDLs produced by the gut drop off their fat load, shrink, are then absorbed and completely disappear. So a few hours after a meal they are gone. And if you were to measure VLDL levels a few hours after a high fat meal they would have returned to ‘normal’. Whatever normal may be. Thus, if you eat a high fat meal, almost all sign of it will have disappeared in a relatively short space of time. And there will be no change in any lipid level. Or at least not any lipid level that anyone can be bothered measuring. However, if you eat a high carbohydrate meal, the metabolism acts in a very different way. Carbohydrates are absorbed and transformed into sugars in the gut, from whence they go straight into the bloodstream, same as fat. But because sugars are soluble in water they don’t need to be carried in a lipoprotein, so there is no immediate effect on lipid levels from a high carb meal. You just get a sharp rise in blood sugar level. A certain amount of the sugar will be absorbed into fat and muscle cells, and then stored as glycogen. But if you eat a big carbohydrate meal, the fat and muscle storage cannot cope, and the excess sugar has to be absorbed by the liver to prevent the sugar level getting too high. However, the liver cannot store that much sugar, so it starts to convert it into fats, in the form of triglyceride. At which point, the liver then packs this excess triglyceride into a VLDL and sends it out into the bloodstream - along with some cholesterol. (Unlike with sharks, the liver in humans is not an energy storage organ) So you get a kind of delayed VLDL rise after eating carbohydrates. But there is a key difference between the VLDL made by the guts, and the VLDL made by the Liver. The VLDL made by the liver, unlike that made in the gut, shrinks into a low density lipoprotein (LDL). The dreaded heart disease causing lipoprotein – the one they call co-lest-erol. Why does this happen to ‘liver manufactured VLDL’, when it doesn’t happen to the VLDL made in the gut? Well, as liver manufactured VLDL leaves the liver, it interacts with an HDL molecule which transfers it’s proteins to the VLDL molecule. One of the proteins transferred is apolipoprotein B-100. And the apo B-100 molecule is the unique LDL ‘identifier.’ On the other hand, VLDL made in the gut has apolipoprotein B-48 attached to it and this VLDL doesn’t become an LDL molecule as it shrinks. Now, if you are not already completely confused, I will explain what this means. Rewind. If you eat fat, it is absorbed from the gut, packed into chylomicrons and ‘VLDL B-48s,’ and transported around the body and then got rid of. Gone. So immediately after a high fat meal you will have a very high triglyceride level, made up of VLDL B-48, but this will fall relatively rapidly. Importantly, there can, and will be no effect on HDL or LDL levels. And so if you measure the lipid levels in the fasting state (which is when such things are measured) you will find nothing at all after a high fat meal. On the other hand, if you eat a high carbohydrate meal, the level of VLDL B-48 will not rise. But some time later, the liver will start converting excess sugar into fat and sending this out in VLDL B-100 molecules. And this process can go on for many hours after a meal. So the VLDL level may still be high when you measure it. In addition to finding a high VLDL you should also find a low HDL. Because, for each VLDL the liver makes, an HDL hands over its proteins and disappears. So the more VLDL the liver makes, the less HDL you will have. Cause and effect. Also, as you may have noted. If the VLDL B-100 all ends up as LDL, the more VLDL the liver makes, the higher the LDL level is likely to be. Therefore, if someone is on a high carbohydrate diet, they should automatically have a raised VLDL level, a reduced HDL level and quite possibly a raised LDL level. Golly gee whiz. A high fat diet reduces VLDL, raises HDL and may even lower LDL. And a high carbohydrate diet does the exact opposite. In short, the metabolism does exactly what you would expect it to.

proudsub -> RE: Cholesterol (4/8/2004 2:12:36 PM)
Congratulations on changing your life ModeratorOne!!!! Great posts. I am trying to do the same thing with the South Beach plan and i love it. I won't start a debate between the two plans, i see enough of that on another board i go to. Different things work for different people. Keep up the good work.

iwillserveu -> RE: Atkins diet (4/9/2004 4:16:22 PM)
No offense, Moderator One, but were you trying to lose weight? If so your weight loss is here: quote: Total caloric intake 1538 I’m not a doctor, but your diet looks extremely healthy. I doubt many follow after eating a slab of bacon because it was good for them. Go to Subway and see the ad for their new Atkins friendly wraps, however... Bacon, cheese, and egg are not healthier than broccoli, tomatoes, and lettuce. I’ll say again that despite having little or no carbs, pork rinds are not a good diet food. Beer despite only having 2.2 carbs, is not a diet drink. Because they have heard how few “carbs” are in say, pork rinds, many will not hesitate to eat the whole bag. That is not an attack on you. You eat healthy.

EStrict -> RE: Atkins diet (4/9/2004 5:09:16 PM)
quote: . I doubt many follow after eating a slab of bacon because it was good for them. Go to Subway and see the ad for their new Atkins friendly wraps, however... Bacon, cheese, and egg are not healthier than broccoli, tomatoes, and lettuce. I’ll say again that despite having little or no carbs, pork rinds are not a good diet food. Beer despite only having 2.2 carbs, is not a diet drink. Because they have heard how few “carbs” are in say, pork rinds, many will not hesitate to eat the whole bag. If you actually READ what you say Iwill, you explain the problem itself. But here are the questions for you. Show me where Dr. Atkins ever advocates someone eating the whole bag of pork rinds, slabs of bacon etc.? Firstly, I know that he warns that where bacon is a good food for helping you get into ketosis, it should be a short term high amount foods, mainly because of nitrates and other things in it. It is the same as his warning against artificial sweeteners. Kiss said she never cheated, but she does admit that she drank a ton of diet soda which means she unintentionally sabotaged herself (something I found happens a lot with people the program doesn't work with). Don't blame the program for advertisers of fast foods that attempt to modify their menu's to be more diet friendly. They make fat free icecream. That doesn't mean if you are on low/no-fat diet it's healthy to eat the whole 1/2 gallon in one sitting. He says drinking should always be done in moderation, but he does not say beer is a diet drink. Again, don't blame the diet for the advertisers of other products. And is it really a bad thing that you can plan a few drinks for a social situation and still stick to your diet? I suppose you feel people should either cheat or not be allowed to enjoy themselves as much as this allows them to? At the moment I see you as one of the people who said things like "did you know Atkins was 260 pounds when he died?" They don't add that he was 6'1 and about 185 the day he died and it was the sugar water they pumped through his system for a few weeks before he died that caused his body to bloat to that weight. I don't mind debating the pro's and cons of various diet programs. As I mentioned, Atkins isn't really a plan for me. But, even though it's not one that I can use well, I do know it works for those who follow it, and everyone I know who has been on it for 6 months or more are more healthy and full of energy than they have been in years. But, if you are going to try to debate the bad of the diet, take the time to read some of Dr. Atkins books and see what he actually proposes before saying how full of BS it is. At the moment you are being nothing more than someone slandering something while having no basic comprehension of how it works.

matthewslave -> RE: Atkins diet (4/9/2004 5:30:38 PM)
slowly peeks out from under his rock, and pulls out his Rant sign Here's the ironic thing... you can kill...with...ANYTHING. OD on water? Yep, health problems. OD on Splenda? Yep, health problems. OD on Atkins Diet? Yep, health problems. OD on <insert new miracle diet/fat burning/exercise fad thingy>.... you get the point. And now we get to my point...Estring, bravo. applaud As a cert. physical trainer, fitness instructor, soon to be cert. dietician (as soon as I get some time to finish studying and take the bloody exam) and someone who has had to watch weight constantly over a lifetime due to health conditions...my advice is that the only safe and perfectly functional way to keep in good shape is to get good safe exercise (which sex does count towards, especially the good kind!) and to eat using common sense. People are all different, fortunately. A friend, a PCOS sufferer, actually thrives on vast amounts of lean meat and nearly zero carbs. She was doing "atkins" from the age of five, which puts her a bit ahead of the good Doctor's social acceptance curve. And yet, with my heart problems, that diet would kill me. The trick is just to find foods that your body can process and "function happily with" and stay with them, rather then try to rewire your body to accept new foods. If the Goddess ShadeDiva likes her orange soda with cream (which is surprisingly good, i admit), then hopefully her body likes it too. If not...here's a new thought in diet/exercise/weight-loss thingies...be happy with the wonderful, amazing person who you are and accept your body for what it is. i rant today only because being in the profession i am, and being friends with all of the people that i know who fight with diets every day...i have grown to view things oddly. The problem, to me, isn't that all of the diets don't work. The problem is that we feel the need to diet and be "physically slim/attractive/'healthier'" at all. ^_^ climbs back under his rock quietly now, rant completed

matthewslave -> RE: Atkins diet (4/9/2004 5:32:24 PM)
sorry for the rant, all...this morning i had to listen to two friends literally crying over how the Atkin's diet didn't get them "skinny" enough for their boyfriends' tastes. They should have been ranting over the abusive boyfriends. ^_^

ModeratorOne -> RE: Atkins diet (4/10/2004 7:38:37 PM)
quote: No offense, Moderator One, but were you trying to lose weight? If so your weight loss is here: quote: Total caloric intake 1538 I wasn't trying to lose weight. I did lose some obviously but at 5'6 and 130 lbs I am quite satisfied. If I drop to 120 I cant say I would be upset lol but that is not my goal nor was it ever. I began due to my cholesterol problems. As for weight loss, I have managed to GAIN weight on a high carb diet with as few calories as 800 and as many as 1200. I developed insulin resistance from all the high carbs I ate and I was CONSTANTLY hungry. I couldn't understand why I was gaining weight. I tried to rationalize it with theories like muscle weighs more than fat etc, but on high carb low fat and plenty of exercise (what I once thought would be healthy that made me sick) I was just hurting myself. Oh I wouldn't gain TONS of weight, but a pound every few months or so managed to creep on while my calories were low, I was getting a good amount of physical activity and I was constantly hungry. Now I cant stop myself from losing weight, I am eating plenty of calories, but the beautiful thing is, I don't restrict my caloric intake. I physically cannot eat more than that, I am stuffed. If I am ever hungry I will grab something to eat. On high carbohydrates I was always looking to find ways to get in the most amount of foods with the fewest amount of calories and I was never ever satisfied. Eating rice cakes with I cant believe its not butter spray is not very tasty either. quote: Go to Subway and see the ad for their new Atkins friendly wraps, however... Bacon, cheese, and egg are not healthier than broccoli, tomatoes, and lettuce. I have never tried those wraps but I have seen them before. First of all let me say that I disagree that broccoli, tomatoes and lettuce are necessarily 'healthier' than bacon, cheese and eggs. I believe ALL of these foods contain different things that are essential in our body. A diet of only broccoli, lettuce and tomatoes and you would develop certain deficiencies, similarly to a diet of only bacon eggs and cheese. Also, keep in mind that bacon and cheese are both minimally processed while vegetables are unprocessed. Bacon, eggs and cheese are certainly healthier than things like poptarts, margarine and cereal and have their place within a normal healthy diet. I am a big fan of vegetables and I add them where I can, but there is no need to discredit other foods. Bacon, for example, is an excellent source of Thiamin, B12 (which cannot be derived from any plant sources), phosphorus and a good source of Zinc, B6, riboflavin, Iron, copper and magnesium. Cheese is an excellent source of calcium, phosphorus, riboflavin, zinc, B12, vitamin A etc. Eggs I am actually shocked to see you mention, since I find them to be one of the most nutritious foods I eat. They contain the highest quality food protein known. Rich in antioxidants they also contain all essential amino acids histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptoOphan and valine along with 9 additional amino acids, and 15 vitamins and minerals including B6, B12, D, E and A. Eggs also contain biotin, calcium, cephalin and lecithin. Scientists frequently use eggs as a standard for measuring the protein quality of other foods. Protein quality is expressed as biological value which measures the rate of efficiency that protein is used for growth. At 93.7% eggs score higher than any other food. I also purchase free range eggs where flax seed is added to the hens meal so my eggs contain a better ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 with 150mg of Omega 3. Atkins requires 3 cups of veggies minimum a day. Usually 2 cups of leafy greens and 1 cup of cooked or raw veggies (or more). The majority of your carbohydrates are supposed to come from vegetables and fruits (non sugary in the beginning). Now that you don't have that big bowl of rice, or pasta, you have room for some vegetables to eat with your protein. Instead of steak and a baked potato its steak and broccoli or salad. I will also inform you that Atkins recommends avoiding meats cured with nitrites, and bacon does have carbs which are counted since its often cured with sugar. Atkins also restricts the amount of cheese you can eat to 3-4oz daily. I see nothing the matter with going to subways for lunch on and eating lettuce and tomato along with chicken breast, cheese, bacon and dressing. That isn't to say that you should eat the same thing every day but I see nothing wrong with that lunch and in my opinion much healthier than pizza or most Chinese food. I have issues with the tortilla and would prefer to eat it all as a salad rather than a wrap, but that's more a personal thing between me and my dislike of soy protein isolate. quote: I’ll say again that despite having little or no carbs, pork rinds are not a good diet food. Beer despite only having 2.2 carbs, is not a diet drink. Because they have heard how few “carbs” are in say, pork rinds, many will not hesitate to eat the whole bag. That is not an attack on you. You eat healthy. Ah, the snackwellization of low carbs. First off, I am glad to note you think that my eating is healthy, many people following Atkins or other low carbohydrate plans eat similarly to the way I do. Dean Ornish would look at what I ate and get a heart attack halfway through reading it I'm certain. Almost 70% of my calories are coming from fat. That's enough to scare away most people, but hey, it works for me. I believe I look at food differently than the way a lot of people do. Until the 1960s or 70s the focus of the US was making sure people got adequate nutrition. There was a lot of talk about the need for food with specific vitamins to prevent various diseases, the importance of people getting enough protein and children drinking enough milk, etc. At some point in the 60's or 70's it seems that this country shifted to the idea that we were all more than adequately nourished and what we needed to do was to focus on avoiding certain foods that they decided could hurt us. Instead of looking at foods to see what we could get out of them, many people starting focusing on foods to see if they had things that we thought were bad for us (too much salt, fat, etc.) and if they didn't we assumed they were healthy and okay to eat. This explains why someone can look at a bag of empty calorie tortilla chips and think that they are healthy because they are low in salt and fat. Since I began low carbing, I began seriously thinking about the foods I ate/avoided and my views on this have changed. I don't look at what I should avoid from my diet as much as I look at what am I getting out of the foods I am eating... protein, fiber, vitamins etc. I am pretty conscious of what I eat and I try I eat and I try and eat mostly foods that make a positive contribution to my health and well-being (which also includes pleasure), rather than focusing just on the fact that the foods don't cause problems (or so you are told). Following a low carbohydrate plan is simply a way of eating. Following a vegetarian plan or a low fat plan are also ways of eating. There are good choices which tend to be (at least in my opinion) nutritious, unprocessed or minimally processed whole foods, and poorer choices nutritionally (highly processed, refined junk foods with tons of added chemicals, hydrogenated oils or sprayed on vitamins and devoid of nutrients on their own) to make. People are usually surprised to know that pork rinds are better for you than say, crackers (not that either one should considered a 'health food'). On a container of plain pork rinds the ingredients are Pork rinds and salt. That's it! No freaky chemicals, no partially hydrogenated oils, just simple and easy. Serving size 1oz Calories 130 Total Fat 4g Saturated Fat 1.5g Cholesterol 0mg Sodium 160mg Total Carbohydrate <1g Dietary Fiber 0g Protein 23g Pork rinds seem to be a moderate source of fat, a decent source of protein and not too high in sodium. They are also a pretty versatile food that many people can enjoy as an occasional snack. Compare that to what most people would consider a 'healthy' snack of reduced fat wheat thins. Serving size 1oz Calories 130 Total Fat 4g Saturated Fat 1g Cholesterol 0mg Sodium 260mg Total Carbohydrate 21g Dietary Fiber 1g Protein 2g Ingredients: ENRICHED FLOUR (WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMINE MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1], RIBOFLAVIN [VITAMIN B2], FOLIC ACID), PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED SOYBEAN OIL, DEFATTED WHEAT GERM, SUGAR, CORNSTARCH, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, SALT, MALT SYRUP, LEAVENING (BAKING SODA, CALCIUM PHOSPHATE), VEGETABLE COLORS (ANNATTO EXTRACT, TURMERIC OLEORESIN), MALTED BARLEY FLOUR. Are pork rinds very nutritious? eh, not really but having them once in a while as a snack seems to be fine and certainly better than those wheat thins. There are plenty of worse things people can eat than pork rinds. Portion control is of course a factor, but how many people on low fat diets think reduced fat wheat thins are actually a healthy snack and watch their portion size of 1oz. Foods that are rich in protein and/or fat tend to be very satiating while foods that are high in highly processed refined flours and sugars will give you an instant insulin spike and cause you to become hungrier sooner. Keep in mind these are foods that are 'allowed' on your plan that help make it livable for people without going off plan or 'cheating' which in the early phases might be difficult for some people. Its just extra variety. Oh, pork rinds may not be the 'ideal' snack, celery with a nut butter might be more nutritious, but cravings, variety and enjoyment in what you eat are all factors that need to be considered and overall pork rinds aren't really that bad for you to have as an occasional snack. Atkins says not to gorge and eat until satisfied, that doesn't mean eat 5 bags of pork rinds, and due to the satiating effect, you are usually satisfied with a smaller amount anyway and can find you don't need or cant eat as many as you would think. Alcohol intake should be limited. The liver will turn alcohol into ketones, but it will burn that before it will burn fat. While alcohol consumption is allowed, it should be limited. Having a couple of beers on the weekends is fine, a glass of red wine with dinner is okay. This is a way of eating that people will follow for the rest of their lives. There is nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation. People should be able to enjoy what they eat and have variety in their food choices. People who find the need to drink a keg have a much larger problem than the amount of carbs in a beer or 2. Too much water can cause an electrolyte imbalance but that is usually the case when someone consumes large amounts of water in a short period of time like 3 liters of water in 20 minutes or so. I drink 4-7 liters of water daily and have no fears about overhydration.

belongtoyou -> RE: Atkins diet (4/11/2004 12:01:50 AM)
The problem with me and dieting is this: i dislike MOST vegetables, do not beef or pork, and i am an emotional eater-meaning i eat whether i'm hungry or not. i have no problems with going to the gym, walking, taking the stairs, i enjoy excercising... So, perhaps it's not which diet is best for me to follow, (necessarily) but learning how NOT to eat when i'm not hungry, and stop eating when i get full. i've not mastered this yet; any suggestions? btw, i'm 5'7 at 198 lbs. (i packed on pounds while in college and haven't been able to lose them). ~rain~

iwillserveu -> RE: Atkins diet (4/11/2004 2:21:17 AM)
Sandy, Thanks for putting words in my mouth. [8D] People get upset with that symbol. Tough. It is accurate. Please quote me where I point out Dr. Atkins weight when he died. I think you may have a point about being upset at the advertising. Because the pretzels George Costanza ate were no fat I wonder how many people ate the whole bag. Amazing your point got through despite your uncalled for attitude. (What else should I call relying on a tactical cheap shot like setting up a straw man argument by telling me what I said was not what I wrote.) (Sorry, I’m coming down hard on you for that. I learned the hard way that it does not pay to be polite about that.) On to your point. I think you are right. The problem is not Atkins it is every advertiser deciding it product is Atkins friendly. I’m sure no self-respecting doctor ever said the only thing better than meat and potatoes is meat and meat washed down with Coors Low Carb Beer™. I could have the same problem with other advertisers.

EStrict -> RE: Atkins diet (4/11/2004 10:48:53 AM)
quote: Thanks for putting words in my mouth. [8D] People get upset with that symbol. Tough. It is accurate. Please quote me where I point out Dr. Atkins weight when he died. Try reading a bit harder Iwill. I said I put you in the same category as those who said that. You are tear apart his diet and how it works without showing any place he ever advocates the actual things you are bitching about. What symbol are you talking about and how is it accurate? BE SPECIFIC. SHOW PROOF. Stop with the speculation. BTW, I am not upset with the advertising. You don't know enough about the diet or the actual health benefits of the foods like the wraps you criticize. Reread the post by Mod I. My attitude reflects your own. My first reply went right over your head, as did many other peoples who support the program (even if we do not all follow it). It was not the first post you said false things about the diet, and again I ask, show the proof of your contentions. I put no words in your mouth Iwill. Again, show me things. Reread what I said. It was your actions I questioned. I quoted you exactly for anything I said you said. Not worried about you coming down hard on me. You can't come down hard on me for things that are all in your own head :)

belongtoyou -> RE: Atkins diet (4/11/2004 9:43:24 PM)
quote: Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway... -(Sandy) nuff said ~rain~

TheYoungDominant -> RE: Atkins diet (4/12/2004 6:05:23 AM)
::chuckles:: I guess I am the only person who has the opposite problem...my metabolism is so high that I never gain weight. I have been stuck between 135 and 140 all of my adult life. basically, I could eat a huge meal at a restaurant, and then about 45 minutes later be starving again. I eat more than anyone I know, and I still stay thin, which sucks because then i have no stamina.

iwillserveu -> RE: Atkins diet (4/12/2004 1:05:02 PM)
Sandy, The symbol is"[8D]". It is accurate because I don't respect they way you put words in my mouth. Do you think I should respect that? I let others get away with it because I was polite. I won't make that mistake again. So you put me in the same category. Thanks for the clarification. So I would say what they would say. I can see how that is not putting words in my mouth.[8D] Proof? Specifics? About "[8D]" or about a pound of bacon washed down with beer not being good for you? I'll get you a link for the second, although I can't believe anyone would argue that. As for the first, read this message board (I'd just link to here.) All I know about the ads is the ingredients on the poster. You want me to link to the subway site? Here is where you put words in my mouth, Sandy: quote: At the moment I see you as one of the people who said things like "did you know Atkins was 260 pounds when he died?" They don't add that he was 6'1 and about 185 the day he died and it was the sugar water they pumped through his system for a few weeks before he died that caused his body to bloat to that weight. Seeing me as one of the people who said... Yeah that's different than saying I said.[8D] Now in case you didn't get it.[b] I SAID YOU ARE RIGHT. You put words in my mouth, but you are right. Dr. Atkins probably did not say that. Unfortunately I'm going by what the Coors corporation says he said. (Should I link to Coors Low Carb Beer site?[8D]) Should I ask the administrator to ad a way to make YOU ARE RIGHT flashing too?[8D]

EStrict -> RE: Atkins diet (4/12/2004 1:28:35 PM)
::Laughing:: you are always good for a laugh Iwill. I am sorry you don't have respect for me (not), I have so much for you (NOT). ASSume that that is the same thing, I neither agree or meant it as the same. Say I am right while talking down to me however I won't allow. Continue with your silly little emoticons, I don't see them. I shut them off about 200 of your posts ago because they were distracting and made any actual valid point you made (which does happen on occasion) seem less so. Thank you for being a big enough man to admit (and yep, here I AM putting words into your mouth) that you are most likely totally wrong about ATKINS. No were will you see where I said washing down a pound of bacon was healthy, but neither is it Atkins. You are averaging of making one person a month treat you with the total lack of respect you show everyone else. But don't worry dear, I won't hit your green dot. I need the humor your serious posts so often give me.

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