Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: So who is sick of high gas prices?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? Page: <<   < prev  28 29 [30] 31 32   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/19/2012 1:15:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

By Eric Dollard


yup I seen a couple videos that he did with borderland in the 70's

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 581
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/19/2012 1:44:21 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

quote:

Engineering analysis of the Colorado Springs Tesla Magnifying Transformer

By Eric Dollard

Preface: the following material and calculations are taken from the Tesla Colorado Springs Notebook. An index of important pages is given at the end.

1) The Colorado Transformer consists in part of a basic quarter wave resonant transformer, referred to in the notes as the primary-secondary structure. The primary circuit is of the balanced, open loop break, configuration. (the tesla hairpin)This break in the primary loop gives rise to steep transient waves. This in turn gives rise to a multitude of harmonic travelling waves upon the coiled windings which constitute the Tesla Transformer. This is discussed in “Condensed Intro to Tesla Transformers.” Like did Tesla, we will focus on the sinusoidal, single frequency, distributions.


2) Next is the extra coil. This coil here operates with a propagation constant less than an eighth of a wavelength. Therefore the coil is operating as a simple inductance coil, not as a distributed network. The distributed network capacity of this mode can be expressed as a definite terminal capacitance. Hence the inductance of this coil is adequately represented by its static inductance.you need a glossary of definitions for the language he is using

3) Finally is the capacity mast. The effective electrostatic capacity of this mast is given. To convert from C.G.S. “centimeters” first divide by the speed of light squared, in centimeters per second, then multiply by ten to the plus ninth. This gives Farads. It works out to 1.1 times C.G.S. gives picoFarads. How easy.

The capacity of the mast consists of two components, one is the self capacity to earth in per Farads, the other is the mutual elastivity K to the ionosphere in per Farads. The measured mast capacity is a resultant, the square root of the ratio of self capacity, C, to the mutual elastivity, K. The actual values of C and K are unknown. The square root of the product of C and K is the propagation constant. The smaller the value of this constant, the greater is the electro-static coupling to the ionosphere.hmm what is it about 770 pf per square meter? Fuck its been a while since my QST days LOL

4) It should be noted that the earth connection at this location was very poor. It was not adequate for the system neutrals. This gives rise to stray mutual inductance between neutral connections. This also led to travelling waves on the two wire 1000 volt power line that powered the Tesla system. Standing waves in the distant generator windings shorted out these coils burning out the town’s generator station.ouch

In conclusion, the Colorado Tesla Transformer is most basic. An extremely high electromotive force is established through the employment of a large lumped series resonant circuit. This series circuit consists of a static inductance coil, the extra coil, and a static capacitance, the capacity mast. This is a basic LC circuit.

This LC circuit is fed by a constant current resonant transformer as a source of low frequency alternating current energy. The operating frequency is near 45 Kilocycles.

5) The propagation constants and the transmission impedances can be derived from the basic physical dimensions of this system. It is fortunate that we have the “RadioTron Designers Handbook”, Tesla did not. He had no frequency counter, no scope, no W.W.V. time standard, Nothing! Think about this.

6) SECONDARY COIL DIMENSIONS AND CONSTANTS


Diameter: 15 meters
Height: 1 meter
Number of Turns: 17 numeric
Mean Length of Turn: 47 meters
Total Length of Turns: 800 meters
Luminal Wavelength: 3200 meters
Self Capacitance: 1500 picoFarad
Self Inductance: 10 milliHenry
Luminal Frequency: 94 Kc/sec
Free Space Frequency: 64 Kc/sec
Actual Frequency: 43 Kc/sec
Free Space Propagation: 68%
Actual Propagation: 46%
Transmission Impedance: 2500 Ohm
Dielectric Burden: 330 picoFarads

7) EXTRA COIL DIMENSIONS AND CONSTANTS
Diameter: 8.4 feet
Height: 8.0 feet
Number of Turns: 100 numeric
Mean Length of Turn: 8 meters
Total Length of Turns: 800 meters
Luminal Wavelength: 3200 meters
Self Capacitance: 112 picoFarad
Self Inductance: 25 milliHenry
Luminal Frequency: 94 Kc/sec
Free Space Frequency: 176 Kc/sec
Actual Frequency: 116 Kc/sec
Free Space Propagation: 187%
Actual Propagation: 123%
Transmission Impedance: 15 Kilo-Ohm
Dielectric Burden: 26 picoFarads

8) MAST CAPACITANCE EFFECTIVE VALUE:

Measured Capacitance is given approximately at 320 picoFarads

The self capacitance of the extra coil is given as 112 picoFarad.

The total capacitance is hence given,
Total End Capacity, 432 picoFarad

This end capacity is series resonant with a 25 milliHenry inductance coil. This gives rise to a propagation constant, (the resonant frequency) and to a transfer impedance.

9) The propagation constant, or frequency, is defined as the inverse of the quantity consisting of the square root of the inductance times the capacitance, this root then multiplied by two Pi. Hence cycles per second.

The product,
25 milliHenry times 432 picoFarad
Results in a frequency of
47 Kilo-cycles

10) The transfer impedance is given as the square root of the ratio of the inductance to the capacitance.

25 milliHenry divided by 432 picoFarad
Results in an impedance of
7600 Ohm

This represents the output impedance of the Tesla Magnifying Transformer.

11) The basic circuit is shown in figure 1:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u200/johnpolakow/Tesla%20Transformer%20Schematic/TeslaTransformerSchematic001.jpg
looks like he forgot to put in the park gap?
In basic terms, a 45 Kc/sec 2500 Ohm source of alternating current energy energizes a large series resonant circuit consisting of an inductance coil and elevated capacity structure. At 45 Kilo-cycles per second, every ampere supplied to the extra coil gives rise to 7.6 Kilovolts at the elevated capacity terminal. The effects of higher harmonics and distributed constants can raise this potential by no more than 50% over the base 7.5 KV. Hereby, for a capacity potential of 1000 KV, the input current to the extra coil must be 132 amperes at 45 Kilocycles per second.

12) This derives the total KiloVolt-Ampere reactive activity of the extra coil in 1000 KV operation, hence, the total activity;

132 MegaVolt-Ampere

This is a substantial activity of 174 thousand horsepower, remembering that this is an average value, the peak value is unknown.how did he conclude that?

13) In conclusion, the Colorado Springs Tesla Magnification Transformer is a very simple system, no more than a giant series resonant circuit with an approximately sinusoidal waveform rendered asymmetrical by a moderate dampening constant. The extra coil is not operating as a transmission network of distributed constants, but only as a basic inductance coil. Hence the length of wire on the coil is somewhat immaterial. The mast capacitance swamps out the extra coil self capacitance, this suppressing transmission modes of higher harmonics.the high q coils does that as well

This transformer is seen to be somewhat disappointing to the theorist. No fancy travelling wave interaction nor any stupendous harmonic conjunctions, only a Big Series Resonant Circuit. It can be surmised that the Colorado Springs Transformer was incapable of full mono-polar operation, due to the suppression of distributed constants. What is fortunate is that with the material hereby provided the Colorado Springs Tesla Transformer can be scaled down to any convenient size for experimentation. This setup is now quantified, and the mystics can remain silent.

73 DE N6KPH

Reference Index (From Colorado Springs Notes)
Page 43 & 58 Primary Circuit
Page 67 Primary Length
Page 203 Primary/Secondary Dimensions
Page 206 Secondary Frequency
Page 211 Secondary Inductance
Page 260 to 267 Capacity Mast
Page 318 Extra Coil Dimensions
Page 357 Extra Coil Ground Frequency
Page 359 Extra Coil Mast Frequency
Page 363 Extra Coil Free Frequency



interesting
it appears that my understanding of certain terms do not match his.
there would need to be a glossary of terms and how he is applying them, or not.







< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/19/2012 1:47:37 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 582
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/19/2012 2:12:18 PM   
dRGreen420


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/12/2012
Status: offline
Yes good grounding is essential, Tesla had this problem at Colorado Springs, indicated by the fact he could energise coils and get sparks from the water pipes, not an ideal situation because everything gets saturated if you will, making it difficult to "individualise" the effects or maximise the selectivity during testing. The same effect is seen here on a MUCH lower power level and smaller scale. In this way the whole thing can be very dangerous and accidents can easily happen even in your neighbours' houses if the experimenter takes the same foolish approach as the lightning bolt crew.

The Borderland videos are essential viewing and from that I made the flat spiral coils. Eric since appeared on another forum and has shared a lot of his knowledge. The Colorado Springs setup was quantified through building smaller scale models from deliberate equations, testing and measuring these coils through the usual methods (Radiotron Designer's Handbook etc), and the constants derived applied to the Colorado Springs setup.

Eric is a trained electrical engineer and radio engineer who worked for RCA and the NAVY etc. All the required data has come from Colorado Springs notes and experimental results of the coils Eric designed. From this information he simply "engineered" the analysis. Hence from this effort the TMT can now be engineered and scaled to any size for experimentation.

These were the tested coils:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u200/johnpolakow/Tesla%20Resonant%20Transformer/CalculatingPropertiesforaTeslaTransformerSecondaryCoil001.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u200/johnpolakow/Tesla%20Resonant%20Transformer/ExtraCoilDimensions001.jpg

However, we are now trying to achieve what Tesla did not achieve, some of Eric's own theories. The given extra coil conductor length is too long to allow for another mode of resonance at the proper frequency, this being practically impossible to derive analytically as no understanding of such a thing exists (in fact we don't even know if it's possible, but based on what I've seen I believe it is), this is currently being done through experimentation. The extra coil conductor length currently being tested is based on λ/4*1.24. All relevant data is being recorded from these tests.

< Message edited by dRGreen420 -- 8/19/2012 2:28:13 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 583
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/19/2012 2:15:38 PM   
dRGreen420


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/12/2012
Status: offline
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

quote:

11) The basic circuit is shown in figure 1:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u200/johnpolakow/Tesla%20Transformer%20Schematic/TeslaTransformerSchematic001.jpg
looks like he forgot to put in the park gap?


The break is indicated by the "X". The 2nd circuit is the "equivalent circuit" of the components as a general schematic.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 584
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 6:22:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Some hundreds of years and nobody can tell us exactly how it works and with real diagrams and materiel and inputs and outputs?


This is hardly an argument "against" the technology. Some 100 years later, I put a pile of wood and copper together precisely as the inventor suggested, and do what is supposedly parlour tricks and magical, which no one here can explain, producing effects exactly as the inventor had claimed some 100 years ago?


I am the one, who has pointed out to this thread, (which none of you were aware of) that a tesla coil is at the heart of every computer and cellphone, and so on.

It is a parlour trick, in that you add a bunch of junk to an existing electrical infrastructure to light a light bulb.  Big fuckin deal as I point out., because at large scale there is nothing.  The proposal would seem to be, use the existing electrical infrastructure, and add a bunch of apparatus at great cost to your house and you can run electricity on one wire, thereby saving you a wire. 

You have mentioned (as I did) at large scale these things are dangerous, (I assume at least as dangerous as an electrical power substation).  So you got the one wire from this huge apparatus and generator, mount the thing on a car the size which will run the electric motor that motivates a car.  How many batteries and whats the drain on them?  Or do you propose a (lets see, us about a 3600 span east to west a little less north to south, 3600/2 all culminating in a central generator point in say dismal seepage Missouri)  1800 mile one wire tether to these cars?   Or do you propose some 8 to 10 ton road vehicles?

Parlour trick, it is not scalable in the real world.  It only has some small demonstration of fascination on the above micro scale, since in those hundred years we have never seen more than a couple lightbulbs or a small fan running on the additional apparatus that come from the wall outlet.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 585
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 2:23:36 PM   
dRGreen420


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/12/2012
Status: offline
You are overlooking all problems as if the existing system is perfected. Also you are caught in the internet-Tesla paradigm therefore are not thinking beyond those ideas that others have put in your head. A working TV does not indicate a perfected system, like a lit bulb does not indicate a perfected system. If it can't work then it can't work. There is no use arguing about it as if insisting that the earth is flat really makes it flat. It's either flat or it's round, your opinion is irrelevant.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 586
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 2:45:05 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
I dont give a good goddamn fuck about that shit.  If it aint exploitable in the real world, it is parlour trick and asswipe.

TV works, uses a tesla coil. People want them. 

How does the one wire heavy electrical inputs from wall sockets work other than using real electricity with massive added apparatus to light a lightbulb?  I maintain that it does not violate Ohms or Joules law, and I see no evidence that they are wrong, cuz they dont deal with apparatus and wires.  Only the behavior of the interacting fields, and they do not say you cannot do this.  You do not say how it can do this, nor does anyone else, hey; if it is reproducable, and it differs in some aspect, you can better believe there is a mathemetician looking to analyze and formulize it, because disproving the laws of electricty is big fuckin business.  Ask einstein if it was worth disproving newton, or Pauli, or Heisenberg, or Godel or any number of guys, the guy who proved Fermats last theorem.

Nah, you got nothing.  100 years, you got nothing.  Build something exploitable like Einstein did the fridge based on Bose-Einstein condensate.  

If it works at scalable levels, there is money there, just as those coils made money in cellphones and computers.

The rest is parlour tricks. 
                                                                                                                                                     

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/20/2012 3:05:02 PM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 587
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 3:11:55 PM   
dRGreen420


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/12/2012
Status: offline
We will start with a length of wire and conduct tests that are universally used by humans. Since the wire length, coil height and diameter, therefore circumference and number of turns are all known and are easily verifiable, the test shall be considered conclusive.

Conductor length = 25.323 metres

Full wavelength = 101.292 metres

F = c/λ
c = 299792458

c/101.292 = 2959.685 kc

This gives us the maximum possible frequency based on the velocity of light. This is the universal speed limit.

We will wind this 25 metres of wire onto an appropriately designed frame of 8.28cm diameter by 8.28cm height, giving a 1:1 height to diameter ratio. The wire is spaced out evenly. Now we test the coil for free resonance. No obstructing objects are nearby, the coil is allowed to resonate freely and achieve its maximum. A pickup probe is placed 46cm above the coil for measurement.

Measured frequency = 3522 kc

Effective wavelength = 85.119 metres

Ratio = 118.9% Luminal


Explain it.

(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 588
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 4:17:30 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
no, you explain it, how did you arrive at that 101.292 as a full wavelength? there is nothing to support that. it is picked at random.  Since it is really 3522 Khz or KC whichever you want to describe a 1000 cycles of that wave. the frequency of its cycle is extremely separated from its propagation in space.   A billion Khz or Kc wave does not describe its length. a 1Khz or Kc wave does not describe its length in such a short distance.  We are not interested in the length of the cord, or the windings they are di minimous.

The test shall be considered wholly faulty.  so

the wavelength is λ = c/f   in your case you chose speed of light for c(which is a bad choice since you do not have this in free space.) nevertheless.....
299792458/3522 or
299792458/2925.682

would result in a 85119+ meter (close enough for inumerates we go with) wave
or a 103000+ meter  (still close enough)wave respectively.

your numbers and equivocating them are like apples and ancient greek civilisations in comparison.

Thanks for playing, the first mistake of your proof was several pages ago when you mixed up speed of sound and light au natural, and then further kept assigning it the maximum vaccum and degree speed (for each of which does not exist on your kitchen table in your little bachelor pad)

a 101+ meter wave is what?  couple million, or couple hundred million khz or kc?  gotta be...........your mile or two of wire is a pimple on an electron scanning microscopes skin parasites ass comparatively.

So, you raised the freq, big fuckin deal.   No violations there, no magic either.   And way the fuck short of even visible light by several  orders of magnitude yet.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/20/2012 4:28:09 PM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 589
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 4:33:18 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

You are overlooking all problems as if the existing system is perfected. Also you are caught in the internet-Tesla paradigm therefore are not thinking beyond those ideas that others have put in your head. A working TV does not indicate a perfected system, like a lit bulb does not indicate a perfected system. If it can't work then it can't work. There is no use arguing about it as if insisting that the earth is flat really makes it flat. It's either flat or it's round, your opinion is irrelevant.



So now you admit the shit aint working right, while RO insists its ready to rock and roll. The left sock dont know what the right sock is doing..........laughable.

The only internet-Tesla paradigm Ron is caught in is the same one as me..... The crap you spout doesnt work, end of.

(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 590
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 4:46:10 PM   
dRGreen420


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no, you explain it, how did you arrive at that 101.292 as a full wavelength? there is nothing to support that. it is picked at random.  Since it is really 3522 Khz or KC whichever you want to describe a 1000 cycles of that wave. the frequency of its cycle is extremely separated from its propagation in space.   A billion Khz or Kc wave does not describe its length. a 1Khz or Kc wave does not describe its length in such a short distance.  We are not interested in the length of the cord, or the windings they are di minimous.

The test shall be considered wholly faulty.  so

the wavelength is λ = c/f   in your case you chose speed of light for c(which is a bad choice since you do not have this in free space.) nevertheless.....
299792458/3522 or
299792458/2925.682

would result in a 85119+ meter (close enough for inumerates we go with) wave
or a 103000+ meter  (still close enough)wave respectively.

your numbers and equivocating them are like apples and ancient greek civilisations in comparison.

Thanks for playing, the first mistake of your proof was several pages ago when you mixed up speed of sound and light au natural, and then further kept assigning it the maximum vaccum and degree speed (for each of which does not exist on your kitchen table in your little bachelor pad)

a 101+ meter wave is what?  couple million, or couple hundred million khz or kc?  gotta be...........your mile or two of wire is a pimple on an electron scanning microscopes skin parasites ass comparatively.

So, you raised the freq, big fuckin deal.   No violations there, no magic either.   And way the fuck short of even visible light by several  orders of magnitude yet.


25.323 * 4 = 101.292

Hence quarter wavelength. Like I said, the usual methods.

A frequency has a corresponding WAVE LENGTH. This is well known. We are interested in the length of the wire because it's absolutely relevant.

I said MAXIMUM frequency. I know it would be measured as lower since we are not in a vacuum and the wire itself is a burden. The measured frequency is 118.9% the maximum possible frequency in a vacuum, assuming the existing "laws" are correct. This is all basic stuff. If you are going to try and argue against this then you'd may as well write to the radio engineers accociations' and everything to tell them they're doing it all wrong. I'm sure they would appreciate your insight.

I don't recall mentioning the speed of sound.

I already said, 101.292 metres = 2959.685 kc. Normal wavelength-frequency calculations.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 591
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 4:54:36 PM   
dRGreen420


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

So now you admit the shit aint working right, while RO insists its ready to rock and roll. The left sock dont know what the right sock is doing..........laughable.

The only internet-Tesla paradigm Ron is caught in is the same one as me..... The crap you spout doesnt work, end of.


If you are a left sock who only has whatever opinion that is agreeable with the right sock then I pity you.

If you paid any attention you would realise that I also know the internet-Tesla paradigm crap doesn't work. The scientific understanding of Tesla's wireless is based on modern radio principles, high voltage, and energising the gas inside fluorescent tubes without wires. Of course it's known that this is useless, that's because it's the truth. Tesla himself said this is absolutely worthless, so that's the first clue right there. This is all due to ignorant people who think they know better.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 592
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 5:29:57 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
25.323 * 4 = 101.292

now its a quarter wavelength or 4 times the wavelength why is that?  what does the length of the wire have to do with the length of a wave?   How the fuck is it relevant?    4 times the length of some wire is nothing to do with anything including electricity. what guage is the wire, what impedence is it, what capacitance does it have, what is the gaussian resonance?  What is the surrounding air temperature at what number of atmospheres to the thousandth?

That affects shit, not the lenght of a wire * 4 (we deal with reality here) the 3 lengths of non-exsisting wire are not of any use.  we will consider that of ABSOLUTELY ZERO IMPACT as we would whether Zeus is on the fucking rag or not today. Doesn't enter into the picture.   You can quote me. 

http://earlyradiohistory.us/khzmeter.htm

101.292 is fucking ridiculous. If I clip a thousanth off the wire the soundwave changes?

Absurd demonstrate that happens.  The soundwave dont fuckin care. It dont know. again this is not a vacuum and not at 0C  so forget the speed of light. 

3352 khz is radio spectrum.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/20/2012 5:52:39 PM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 593
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 6:21:18 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

So now you admit the shit aint working right, while RO insists its ready to rock and roll. The left sock dont know what the right sock is doing..........laughable.

The only internet-Tesla paradigm Ron is caught in is the same one as me..... The crap you spout doesnt work, end of.


If you are a left sock who only has whatever opinion that is agreeable with the right sock then I pity you.

This is all due to ignorant people who think they know better.




not here!



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/20/2012 6:23:57 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 594
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 6:34:36 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont give a good goddamn fuck about that shit.  If it aint exploitable in the real world, it is parlour trick and asswipe.



ex·ploit
n.
To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.

Parlour
Variant of parlor i.e. British and French word.
A private place in a house for entertaining guests.
Another word for brothel. See turn a trick.

See Bordello, cathouse, whorehouse, Fuckhouse, House of Joy, Meat House, Message Parlour, House of Tricks or Brothel.
"Please Bethel come into my Parlour." See also Parlor.


yes we get it that you dont give a god damn


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 595
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 6:36:22 PM   
dRGreen420


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

25.323 * 4 = 101.292

now its a quarter wavelength  why is that?  what does the length of the wire have to do with the length of a wave?   How the fuck is it relevant?  

http://earlyradiohistory.us/khzmeter.htm

101.292 is fucking ridiculous. If I clip a thousanth off the wire the soundwave changes?

Absurd demonstrate that happens.  The soundwave dont fuckin care. It dont know. again this is not a vacuum and not at 0C  so forget the speed of light. 


quote:

When the medium has one fixed end and one free end the situation changes in an interesting way. A node will always form at the fixed end while an antinode will always form at the free end. The simplest standing wave that can form under these circumstances is one-quarter wavelength long.


quote:

Standing waves don't form under just any circumstances. They require that energy be fed into a system at an appropriate frequency. That is, when the driving frequency applied to a system equals its natural frequency. This condition is known as resonance.


http://physics.info/waves-standing/

I'm not speaking of any light frequencies. That would be a speck, not even something you could make a coil out of. You are thinking about it upside down. This is in relation to propagation velocities. An EM wave supposedly travels at the speed of light (limited to) regardless of its frequency. As you point out this velocity is impossible along a wire for all the known reasons. But it's not impossible at all, as has been proven. As the wire is coiled in a particular geometry these limitations are overcome somewhat, resulting in velocities exceeding light. The free space propagation of a 1:1 ratio coil is 187% the velocity of light. Burdened by the frame and the wire and the insulation and so on, this is reduced to around 116%-118.9% as is confirmed by numerous different experiments and by different experimenters (with a metallic connection - the lowest frequency. With lighter coupling this raises).

The natural frequency of  101.292 metres of wire based on the velocity of light as the speed limit = 2959.685 kc

The measured frequency = 3522 kc

= 118.9% the propagation with the velocity of light as the limit.

Effective wavelength = 85.119 metres

Musical instruments have particular wire lengths, or resonating chambers, or appropriately spaced frets and so on for a reason. Change any of these factors and then see how good it sounds.

Previously tested coil:

126 turns
Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
Conductor length = 32.271 metres

Luminal frequency = 2322.4 kc
Direct = 2694.8 kc
10pF = 2833.1 kc

Consideration of Coil Self Capacitance
1) Extra Coil Diameter
8.28 cm

2) Capacitance factor from Radiotron table for a coil aspect ratio of 100%
.46 Numeric

3) Multiply this by the coil diameter
3.8 picofarads

4) This is the "free space" self capacitance of this extra coil. This means a true air wound coil.

Now to determine the actual working capacitance of this extra coil resulting from the coil form and stray lead parasitic capacitance.

1) The theoretical velocity factor from the Wireless Power Table for a coil with a 100% aspect ratio:
187% numeric

2) The actual measured velocity factor
124% numeric

3) Taking the ratio of the free space to actual measured velocity gives
1.51 numeric

4) Velocity varies as the inverse of the square root of the capacitance
2.28 numeric

5) Multiplication of the free space capacitance by this squared factor
8.7 picofarads

6) This is the burdened coil capacitance resulting from the coil form and connecting leads.

v = 124% luminal velocity
C = 8.7 picoFarad
n = x 167 magnification factor

The inductance, characteristic impedance and resonant frequency of this extra coil is now developed.

1) The magnetic inductance of the extra coil by Wheeler's formula (Theory of Wireless Power) is
846 microHenry

2) The effective inductance for a cosine quarter wavelength current distribution is

by Steinmetz, two over Pi the total inductance,
539 microHenry

By Miller, one half the total inductance,
423 microHenry

3) The equivalent capacitance of the extra coil is given as
8.7 picoFarad

4) The effective capacitance for a sine quarter wave distribution is

by Steinmetz, two over Pi times C,
5.5 picoFarads

by Miller, eight over Pi squared times C,
7.1 picoFarads

4)The Characteristic coil impedance is defined as the square root of the ratio of inductance to capacitance

By Steinmetz
9.9 Kilo Ohm

by Miller
7.7 Kilo Ohm

5) The angular frequency is defined as the inverse of the square root of the product of inductance and capacitance

18 Kilo-radians per second
or
2860 Kilocycles/sec

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 596
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 6:45:07 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no, you explain it, how did you arrive at that 101.292 as a full wavelength? there is nothing to support that. it is picked at random.  Since it is really 3522 Khz or KC whichever you want to describe a 1000 cycles of that wave. the frequency of its cycle is extremely separated from its propagation in space.   A billion Khz or Kc wave does not describe its length. a 1Khz or Kc wave does not describe its length in such a short distance.  We are not interested in the length of the cord, or the windings they are di minimous.

The test shall be considered wholly faulty.  so

the wavelength is λ = c/f   in your case you chose speed of light for c(which is a bad choice since you do not have this in free space.) nevertheless.....
299792458/3522 or
299792458/2925.682

would result in a 85119+ meter (close enough for inumerates we go with) wave
or a 103000+ meter  (still close enough)wave respectively.

your numbers and equivocating them are like apples and ancient greek civilisations in comparison.

Thanks for playing, the first mistake of your proof was several pages ago when you mixed up speed of sound and light au natural, and then further kept assigning it the maximum vaccum and degree speed (for each of which does not exist on your kitchen table in your little bachelor pad)

a 101+ meter wave is what?  couple million, or couple hundred million khz or kc?  gotta be...........your mile or two of wire is a pimple on an electron scanning microscopes skin parasites ass comparatively.

So, you raised the freq, big fuckin deal.   No violations there, no magic either.   And way the fuck short of even visible light by several  orders of magnitude yet.


25.323 * 4 = 101.292

Hence quarter wavelength. Like I said, the usual methods.

A frequency has a corresponding WAVE LENGTH. This is well known. We are interested in the length of the wire because it's absolutely relevant.

I said MAXIMUM frequency. I know it would be measured as lower since we are not in a vacuum and the wire itself is a burden. The measured frequency is 118.9% the maximum possible frequency in a vacuum, assuming the existing "laws" are correct. This is all basic stuff. If you are going to try and argue against this then you'd may as well write to the radio engineers accociations' and everything to tell them they're doing it all wrong. I'm sure they would appreciate your insight.

I don't recall mentioning the speed of sound.

I already said, 101.292 metres = 2959.685 kc. Normal wavelength-frequency calculations.



If they needed comedic relief!

ron likes to hear himself talk and polite is a 40 year lineman in your country.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 597
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 7:02:10 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
and after all that they wont be even one step closer to understanding anything about anything!



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 598
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 7:11:19 PM   
dRGreen420


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

If they needed comedic relief!

ron likes to hear himself talk and polite is a 40 year lineman in your country.


Isn't it curious how people demand proof, and when you give it to them after acquiring it through all the conventionally accepted methods, they start arguing against the method, which is a part of the whole thing they were defending in the first place. Now that which they defended is not good enough, because it doesn't give the answer they wanted. So they end up attacking their own system in an effort to defend it. Well then I guess that can go down as a job well done. Science in action

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 599
RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? - 8/20/2012 7:53:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

If they needed comedic relief!

ron likes to hear himself talk and polite is a 40 year lineman in your country.


Isn't it curious how people demand proof, and when you give it to them after acquiring it through all the conventionally accepted methods, they start arguing against the method, which is a part of the whole thing they were defending in the first place. Now that which they defended is not good enough, because it doesn't give the answer they wanted. So they end up attacking their own system in an effort to defend it. Well then I guess that can go down as a job well done. Science in action




well I give you credit for your patience.

In the end they still cant explain why these guys can grab grab onto both wires and NOT even feel anything at all much less a shock! LOL


they say that its because of the short but then they cannot explain how the shorted light can possibly light up at the same time!










< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/20/2012 8:16:33 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to dRGreen420)
Profile   Post #: 600
Page:   <<   < prev  28 29 [30] 31 32   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: So who is sick of high gas prices? Page: <<   < prev  28 29 [30] 31 32   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.140