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RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 3:56:40 PM   
MileHighM


Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

How is being pregnant a disability?


I shall wait for a woman to answer that one.


There is a reason pregnancy and child care recieves its own benifits, its in its own category, not a disability.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:00:04 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

(in the case of fat, smoking, or drugs, despite ample warning, you knew exactly what you were getting yourself into) or you didn't.


You know, I am really sick of fat people always bearing the brunt of "its your own fault". I've been overweight literally my entire life, as in since birth as a 13lb baby. Most of the time I don't eat any more, and often a lot less, than the average person. Yes, there are times when I do over eat, doesn't everybody. However, to demonize every person in the world and say that since you lost weight, we should all be able to, we are just weak and lack willpower, is rude, obnoxious and ignorant. There are a lot of causes of obesity, how much and what one eats is just a part of it.


so why are you overweight? why have you been overweight nearly all your life? Because you were a 13lb baby?
No one is demonizing every person in the world, but most fat people are fat because they eat too much and they eat shit.
I know it's harsh but you are a direct representation of what you put in your mouth and the excuses are not going to cut it

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RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:01:50 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		They don't give you disability for depression here, unless you're a danger to yourself or others, pretty much...

And as to the causes for obesity, which is indeed a serious public health issue in the west, I will not deny it---how about approaching the issue of poverty? I invite you to tour the remains of my fine city and see just what resources for proper food the poor of America have. It's not entirely a function of choice. Our sedentary work is another. I actually moved my printer in the office to allow for extra steps, not just because I liked it on that end of the counter! How about all those fat kids? One spring dad my dad and I were shoveling mulch and getting all grubby in the outdoors. Do you think a single child was outside playing?

Our lives have not changed for the better in many ways. But yes, let's pick on those fat people. And make sure that pregnant women have to get back to work just as soon as they drop their spawn! None of that dossing about for them!

Can you see the inherent absurdity?



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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:04:49 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		I am not mixing up obesity and pregnancy

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RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:07:05 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

(in the case of fat, smoking, or drugs, despite ample warning, you knew exactly what you were getting yourself into) or you didn't.


You know, I am really sick of fat people always bearing the brunt of "its your own fault". I've been overweight literally my entire life, as in since birth as a 13lb baby. Most of the time I don't eat any more, and often a lot less, than the average person. Yes, there are times when I do over eat, doesn't everybody. However, to demonize every person in the world and say that since you lost weight, we should all be able to, we are just weak and lack willpower, is rude, obnoxious and ignorant. There are a lot of causes of obesity, how much and what one eats is just a part of it.


so why are you overweight? why have you been overweight nearly all your life? Because you were a 13lb baby?
No one is demonizing every person in the world, but most fat people are fat because they eat too much and they eat shit.
I know it's harsh but you are a direct representation of what you put in your mouth and the excuses are not going to cut it


I have been overweight only a small portion of my life. Why? Prednisone, and other medications. Then, doughnuts, and a very sedentary job kept me here. But is that a disability? I am in perfect health, aside from the things that make me take the prednisone and other stuff. I pay taxes, and unemployment taxes on my employees. Still fat, though.

We never did get to the real definition that the census discussed. I will never tell you that I am disabled. My chronically ill mother will tell you that there is not a thing wrong with her. If we are depending on self-definition, is that worth anything?


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RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:08:10 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

I am not mixing up obesity and pregnancy


I know it, Hardy, I we were posting at the same time.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:09:33 PM   
MileHighM


Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline 		Ultimately, all of the problems we are pointing at here have never been worse, yet we do more to help than ever before....So, we must really be fucking up when it comes to helping. The one exception is smoking, we have demonized here in the US and it driven the rate of smoking down. So much so, the rate of obesity in the US is higher now.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:17:25 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

(in the case of fat, smoking, or drugs, despite ample warning, you knew exactly what you were getting yourself into) or you didn't.


You know, I am really sick of fat people always bearing the brunt of "its your own fault". I've been overweight literally my entire life, as in since birth as a 13lb baby. Most of the time I don't eat any more, and often a lot less, than the average person. Yes, there are times when I do over eat, doesn't everybody. However, to demonize every person in the world and say that since you lost weight, we should all be able to, we are just weak and lack willpower, is rude, obnoxious and ignorant. There are a lot of causes of obesity, how much and what one eats is just a part of it.


so why are you overweight? why have you been overweight nearly all your life? Because you were a 13lb baby?
No one is demonizing every person in the world, but most fat people are fat because they eat too much and they eat shit.
I know it's harsh but you are a direct representation of what you put in your mouth and the excuses are not going to cut it


I have been overweight only a small portion of my life. Why? Prednisone, and other medications. Then, doughnuts, and a very sedentary job kept me here. But is that a disability? I am in perfect health, aside from the things that make me take the prednisone and other stuff. I pay taxes, and unemployment taxes on my employees. Still fat, though.

We never did get to the real definition that the census discussed. I will never tell you that I am disabled. My chronically ill mother will tell you that there is not a thing wrong with her. If we are depending on self-definition, is that worth anything?


my initial post was in response to erie apparantly blaming her fatness on being a big baby which is bollocks. I have more sympathy with people who are disabled being overweight, it's a tough place to be. But it does not alter the fact that most fat people are fat through bad choices, through being ignorant and lazy. Educating them would be a start but most won't care....where were we? oh yeah, being fat is not a disability if it is self inflicted

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:18:24 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Fact: a person can eat for an entire month at McDonald's on about $100. While that person isn't going hungry, he/she also isn't getting many nutrients. It is a high fat, high calorie, high carbohydrate diet that will cause weight gain. Still, that $100 is well-spent if the person is poor.

As to smoking. The mentally ill are about 2X as likely to smoke cigarettes as somebody in the general population. A part of it is that cigarettes are a form of self-medication. Recent studies have shown that nicotine and other chemicals found in cigarettes can cause relaxation, reduce anxiety, increase alertness and improve memory. Some scientists think smoking can cause mental illness, but the data isn't conclusive--it is one of those chicken and egg questions much like the mentally ill and drug addict. Personally, I think saying that any "behavior" causes mental illness is junk science because I live with mental illness and was mentally ill before I started smoking.
I also see the huge taxes on cigarettes as a tax on the poor, since the mentally ill are half the consumers of the tobacco industry and most of the mentally ill live in poverty.

(in reply to MileHighM)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:20:44 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MileHighM

Ultimately, all of the problems we are pointing at here have never been worse, yet we do more to help than ever before....So, we must really be fucking up when it comes to helping. The one exception is smoking, we have demonized here in the US and it driven the rate of smoking down. So much so, the rate of obesity in the US is higher now.


That also boggles me a little, but I just have my own family to judge by. My dad quit cold turkey decades ago, gained maybe five pounds then lost it. I quit decades ago, no change in weight either. Nicotine is a stimulant, but you don't have to replace each fag with a doughnut!

I don't think we're doing much to help with obesity. The stuff in my nephew's school seems to be fostering the culture of thin = good so FOOD = bad. Great, a new generation of kids with eating disorders. Who don't go outside and play because they can't handle unstructured activity.

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RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:21:00 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Can you see the inherent absurdity?



Yes.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:25:59 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		so you are fat because you were a fat baby, eating at Mc D's is the cheapest why to feed yourself and smoking is good for you..........
Ok, this is where I have to disagree

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:36:14 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Here in the States, fast food is actually more economical than proper fresh cooked food. Really, it is. There's not a greengrocer on every corner in the urban areas, and if there's no modeling at home of what a reasonable diet looks like, then the fast food that everyone will eat is the easiest solution. You can spend food stamp money on booze or smokes but you CAN buy crap like crisps, which are crazy expensive for what they are.

I deplore that, I really do, but I am not going to sit here and support dictating to other free citizens what to do with their share of my tax dollars. If most of my taxes are going to fight foreign wars that I don't support, then some can go buy cheetos a kid.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:39:59 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Ok, but to get at the heart of my arguement: I am really concerned with whether or not we are enabling bad behaviour by offering individuals making bad decisions in their lives too much support without a call for them to make better ones in order to recieve the help.


I'm with you here.

Whenever I am mindful of my eating habits, such as through Weight Watcher or myfitnesspal (which is free!) I see that my excess weight is All My Fault. I also become allergic to cats when I've been eating too much sugar, which depresses the immune system.

I have sympathy for my brother, who was born with a neurological issue and also developed mental illness as a teenager. His body is able to work, but his mind sabotages him.

However, in my mind potential fraud or abuse by people who have created their conditions should take a far back seat to issues like this:



– Thirty corporations paid less than nothing in aggregate federal income taxes over the entire 2008-10 period. These companies, whose pretax U.S. profits totaled $160 billion over the three years, included: Pepco Holdings (–57.6% tax rate), General Electric (–45.3%), DuPont (–3.4%), Verizon (–2.9%), Boeing (–1.8%), Wells Fargo (–1.4%) and Honeywell (–0.7%).

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 4:58:41 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

so you are fat because you were a fat baby, eating at Mc D's is the cheapest why to feed yourself and smoking is good for you..........
Ok, this is where I have to disagree


The point about eating at Mc D's is true. If you're poor, you eat fatty foods because these keep you going.

All the rules change when you're hard up for money: you'll quickly turn to food that will give you the most calories per penny. A survival instinct cuts in very quickly if you're down on your money. Calories are crucial; vitamins and minerals are very much secondary.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 5:34:26 PM   
MileHighM


Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

so you are fat because you were a fat baby, eating at Mc D's is the cheapest why to feed yourself and smoking is good for you..........
Ok, this is where I have to disagree


The point about eating at Mc D's is true. If you're poor, you eat fatty foods because these keep you going.

All the rules change when you're hard up for money: you'll quickly turn to food that will give you the most calories per penny. A survival instinct cuts in very quickly if you're down on your money. Calories are crucial; vitamins and minerals are very much secondary.



BS, eating from the grocery store is always cheaper---get off your ass and cook

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 5:41:12 PM   
MileHighM


Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline 		Kalikshama--

Agreed, but that is not what this thread is about.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 5:44:48 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		It's not cheaper. Even if you know a lot about planning meals.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 5:49:31 PM   
MileHighM


Posts: 400
Joined: 10/8/2009
Status: offline 		I can go to sprouts (grocer 4 miles from the house) Buy a broccoli crown, 12oz of chicken, two russet potatoes and 2 apples for 6$ and feed me and my wife a nutricious non-fried meal....I can't get 2 value meals at Mc D's for that.....I know I do the cooking


EDIT:
(this is all based on proper portions for a healthy calorie dinner)

< Message edited by MileHighM -- 5/22/2012 5:50:31 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Minorities - 5/22/2012 5:51:08 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		but for $5 bucks you can get fries and two double stackers w pop at burger king, no fridge needed or stove.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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