RE: Stand Your Ground II

RE: Stand Your Ground II (Full Version)

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lovmuffin -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/10/2012 4:41:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin So some of these guys have figured a way around it. It still doesn't make it right that a law abiding citizen should be denied the means of self defense all the while gang bangers are going to be packin regardless of the law. Who's talking about denying law abiding citizens means of self defense? No really, I apparently missed that part of this thread, where is it? Your are by advocating abolishing SYG. Ah I see, so sorry, boy there's egg on my face. Here I was thinking we were trying to have an intellectually honest discussion, my bad. I didn't mean to interrupt you two in your make up the other guys position game, here I'll go: I disturbs me that you want to be able to legally serial kill random innocent people. Did you fall off that mountain and bump your head ?? Oh I get it.....sarcasm. So you were against it but now you're for it ?? Everything you have posted so far refuting what I have posted I seemed to have inferred you don't agree with SYG. I even had the impression at one point that you might be anti gun but I'm so sorry I was wrong about that too. After all when you were 4 it took all of your strength to pull a trigger. I shouldn't have let that get in the way of our intellectual discussion.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/10/2012 7:47:59 PM)
I have he didn't listen.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/10/2012 7:50:08 PM)
My stat comes from DominionofNewyork.com read it and get real.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/10/2012 7:52:16 PM)
So you think that under the law he should walk?

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/10/2012 7:54:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So now your claiming syg allows people to be serial killers? Show one case were that is even remotly indicated. You deny wanting to eliminate syg and self defence but you hide behind insults when asked how to protect the rifgt of sef defense and fix your imagined problems. Oh wow that strawman's even better. My turn. If this is about self defense like you claim why do you want gang bangers spray neighborhoods with AK47's? I never said that or anything like it. If you are going to lie about me at least be bright enough to lie to someone else, not me. And you have still not come up with one attempt for a solution.

Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/10/2012 9:48:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I don't see the guy in the adkins killig, there are too many factors beyond the lack of a weapon. That is even if a weapon had existed it would have been very easy to just drive off. According to the article, the link is on post #1. Also now in no way am I defending him nor accussing him, nor anything else. I am just quoting what Jude said as to why he could not drive away after the shooting as reported in the article. Jude said he didn't drive away from the confrontation because the dog was in the way

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/10/2012 10:20:33 PM)
That post was directed at gotsteel, not you, I know you have not been commenting on that case.

Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/10/2012 11:44:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD That post was directed at gotsteel, not you, I know you have not been commenting on that case. I just thought I did?

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/11/2012 11:12:11 AM)
You are not making the kinds of rediculous statements that GotSteel is.

GotSteel -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/11/2012 6:19:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I never said that or anything like it. If you are going to lie about me at least be bright enough to lie to someone else, not me. And you have still not come up with one attempt for a solution. Yeah, isn't it complete bullshit when somebody you're trying to talk to starts informing you what your position is? Isn't it frustrating how it completely shuts down any sort of discussion?

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/11/2012 8:55:01 PM)
Tell us what you want done. We have asked you a dozen times and you just keep talking about gang violence and claiming absurd positions on my part. AGAIN WHAT DO YOU WANT CHANGED? I have given specifics dare to do the same.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/11/2012 8:56:18 PM)
We can't have a discussion till you actually say something.

GotSteel -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/12/2012 6:38:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD AGAIN WHAT DO YOU WANT CHANGED? Well for starters I'd really like it if you two would stop throwing out strawmen and red herrings. As for stand your ground, well you could look at my position. You know, that thing I was saying about the time you completely buried the conversation in bullshit. quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD If we abolish every law that has been circumvented or missused we would live in total anarchy. Alternatively we could notice that SYG isn't working as envisioned, observe what's actually happening and re-write, patch or even rollback to the more standard self defense laws that already exist.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/12/2012 2:19:36 PM)
So you do want it abolished? Plrase note that distroing your position does not qualify as BS refusing to do anything other than make unfounded complaints as you have been doing does. Did you miss when I explained the absured handicaps the old self defense standard put the person tring to defend themselves under.

GotSteel -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/12/2012 8:20:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Did you miss when I explained the absured handicaps the old self defense standard put the person tring to defend themselves under. I must have because no I do not remember you explaining "self defense" "handicaps". Are you perhaps talking about this bait and switch that has nothing to do with self defense? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I don't know for sure what the rules were in Fl before castle doctrin but in Alabama the bad guys could break into my house and cart everything I had off and if I tried to stop them I was the criminal as long as they didn't attack me. And if they lived their word had equal weight with mine when they pressed assault charges. Even then I had to give a verbal warning and fire a warning shot. I don't want to go back to that. Many of the traditional self defense laws were like that.

GotSteel -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/12/2012 8:31:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So you do want it abolished? Plrase note that distroing your position does not qualify as BS refusing to do anything other than make unfounded complaints as you have been doing does. It's a little late, I'm not sure what "distroing" is supposed to mean. So let me be clear about my use of the word bullshit. Don't fucking lie to me about my position. Clear enough?

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/12/2012 9:19:34 PM)
What I gave you earlier was not a red herring it was the rules we lived under prior to castle doctrin. You said that one of your options was to roll back to the old self defense rules so I told you what those old rules were here. Once again you equate disagreeing with you with clouding the issue. I havet lied to you about your position and if I did I would only be following your lead. Unlike you I do not cover my lack of thought with lirs or my lack of vocabulary with vulgarity. Translation, you are a foul mouthed moron

Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/13/2012 12:45:46 AM)
Now getting back to our Stand Your Ground debat. I have previously mentioned a trial in Texas where the accused is used the Texas Stand Your Ground as a defense, Post 180 and 197. Here is an update, the DA has finished his presention, the last few witness included one witness who state that the accused Rodriguez had told her that he could get away with killing using the Stand Your Ground. The DA ended and the Defense ask the Judge for a Not Guity verdict, the Judge ruled otherwise. The Defense then rested it case. The jury will get the case later this week. http://www.heraldstandard.com/united_states_ap/testimony-ends-in-houston-stand-your-ground-trial/article_f73b5f8c-2dea-57f1-9ee0-b62db56ee7bf.html

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/13/2012 8:32:18 AM)
I think we can agree that Rodriguez is attempting to abuse the law.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/13/2012 8:43:38 AM)
Let me explain the rules that a rollback traditional self defense functions under. A the victim must retreat even within thier own home B the assalent must make it unquestionable that he intends to harm the victim C the victim must verbally warn the assalent that he intends to resist D the victim must fire a warning shot E at this point the victim may defend himself. This is not a strawman or a red herring it is merely pointing out what we would be returning to if we rolled back to the standard self defense laws. Maybe you should come up with another "remedy" You might want to actually read the Fl stand your ground law before making inaccurate claims aas to what it allows.

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