quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
So some of these guys have figured a way around it. It still doesn't make it right that a law abiding citizen should be denied the means of self defense all the while gang bangers are going to be packin regardless of the law.

Who's talking about denying law abiding citizens means of self defense? No really, I apparently missed that part of this thread, where is it?
Your are by advocating abolishing SYG. If one is out somewhere away from home minding their own bees wax, if mugged or car jacked or assaulted or attempted rape ect. one should be allowed to defend against it. There are too many overzealous prosecutors willing to prosecute just to keep their numbers up. SYG protects those who legitimately use their guns in a self defense situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
In any case there are not so many of these guys that don't already have criminal records.

Oh you've checked? How many are there, what's the number?
Come on now, how many could there possibly be ? It's like advocating gun registration. Gang bangers, bank robbers, serial killers, organized crime types amoung others just are not going to register their guns. Their not likely to get concealed carry permits either. That's just common sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Your problem is that you don't like guns or citizens using them to defend themselves.

Anyone know where I can find an emoticon for liar liar pants on fire?

My father started teaching me to shoot with my grandma's .22 rifle when I was all of 4, I can remember when it took all the strength I had in both hands to pull the trigger of that tiny little rifle. Just in the bedroom I've got 3 guns with me.

Furthermore I'm in favor of legitimate self defense as I mentioned earlier in the thread. What I'm not in favor of is the taking of human life in situations that are easily avoidable. I guess you can call me pro-life that way [sm=dunno.gif]

I'll see if I can find that emoticon for you. My 2 year old nephew could pull the trigger with ease on a Red Rider BB gun after we cocked the lever. If you state as a 4 year old that it took all your strength to pull a trigger then you must have been a seriously deformed weakling or you are totally full of shit. I would bet on the latter.

I'm not in favor of life taking in avoidable situations either but I'm not in favor of citizens being prosecuted for a legitimate self defense situation. I hope we're not arguing over semantics here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Not only that but if the guy who legally has the gun ends up having to use it he won't be covered under SYG if it's a result of criminal activity

The problem with that being how SYG legalizes the gang related gun violence that Floridans are so keen on protecting themselves against. I would rather these gang thugs get arrested for shooting each other before yet another 5 year old gets killed in the cross fire.
Innocents are going to get killed in the crossfire regardless of the laws. I'll let you in on a secret, gang thugs don't obey the laws and SYG doesn't get inocents shot nor does it cause gangs to shoot each other. If SYG has some flaws I'm not apposed to addressing those. It would seem that SYG does have it's abusers and a slick lawyer can take advantage of it. So it would seem to me the fault lies with the slick lawyers and stupid juries, judges and incompetent prosecutors, kind of like in the OJ and Casey Anthony acquittals. What laws could you address to fix that ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
but he will be covered under 10 - 20 - life which I'm sure we can all agree is a good law.

When it comes to violent crime with deadly weapons I'm more of a one maybe two strikes at most man myself.
10 - 20 - life is a first strike law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I would have to see the tape.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro







Just for clarification.  What you are saying is that even though this law if fawled it should not be corrected in anyway because to do so would force you give up your gun?

I'm not saying the law is flawed but that criminals will just find some way around it anyway or ignore it altogether. It wouldn't necessarily force me to give up my gun but restrict it's use in common self defense situations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I already pointed out that the judge has the power to make suspention of the right to carry as one of the bail conditions.
So the problem is with the judge not the law.

The tape must look fairly bad or you wouldn't have posted it.





Just for clarification.  What you are saying is that even though this law if fawled it should not be corrected in anyway because to do so would force you give up your gun?

I'm not saying the law is flawed but that criminals will just find some way around it anyway or ignore it altogether. It wouldn't necessarily force me to give up my gun but restrict it's use in common self defense situations.

I don't follow, okay lets say a loop is allowing criminals to get away with owning a firearm.  In this case as the example that someone has arrests, but not convictions...so having arrests only is added to the law restrictions.  How is this going to change your situtation, you have arrests?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Oh you've checked? How many are there, what's the number?
Come on now, how many could there possibly be ? It's like advocating gun registration. Gang bangers, bank robbers, serial killers, organized crime types amoung others just are not going to register their guns. Their not likely to get concealed carry permits either. That's just common sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/07/a-night-inside-south-floridas-gang-wars/
There are at least 250 gangs in Miami-Dade County with a minimum of 2,000 gang members.

By comparison, Miami-Dade’s gang unit is comprised of Almaguer, three sergeants, and thirteen officers. That’s 17 against 2,000. Add to that as many as another 10,000 “associate” gang members – hangers on who aren’t formally members of the gang but often participate in their crimes – and you quickly get the sense of how tall a challenge the police are facing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Oh you've checked? How many are there, what's the number?
Come on now, how many could there possibly be ? It's like advocating gun registration. Gang bangers, bank robbers, serial killers, organized crime types amoung others just are not going to register their guns. Their not likely to get concealed carry permits either. That's just common sense.

Are you getting this common sense from comic books or bad action movies? Having seen evidence from the Miami-Dade Police Department’s Gang Unit Commander that your preconceptions on this subject are wrong, isn't common sense actually looking some of this stuff up?

Just that particular unit is up against:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/07/a-night-inside-south-floridas-gang-wars/
There are at least 250 gangs in Miami-Dade County with a minimum of 2,000 gang members.

By comparison, Miami-Dade’s gang unit is comprised of Almaguer, three sergeants, and thirteen officers. That’s 17 against 2,000. Add to that as many as another 10,000 “associate” gang members – hangers on who aren’t formally members of the gang but often participate in their crimes – and you quickly get the sense of how tall a challenge the police are facing.

Since you've seen evidence that these people are organized into crews with members who can carry concealed legally isn't common sense that there could very possibly be many?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
For the momment let us pressume that there are hundreds of gangbangers who can legally own and carry guns because they have not yrt been convicted of a crime. Does that mean Kitara should not be allowed a gun to protect himself? Punish the innocent in the hopes of slowing down the guilty? No change to syg would affect this, talk about off subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
That was just one example and I'm sure there are more but in comparison to the entire total of gang related criminal activity I'm betting it's not a major problem though what ever problem it is could certainly be addressed as BamaD suggested in some of his posts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
If ya have a guy with a CCP riding around in a car with a guy packin cocaine, why can't they take his gun and or the *car* (a contradiction with myself though as I have issues with forfeiture laws) ? If he has arrests that have not as yet been adjudicated then why can't the terms of his bail/release include not possessing guns ? Why do we have to scrap the entire SYG ??

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
That was just one example and I'm sure there are more but in comparison to the entire total of gang related criminal activity I'm betting it's not a major problem though what ever problem it is could certainly be addressed as BamaD suggested in some of his posts.

Having already bet any amount of money and lost, what data are you using to calculate these bets? Old Van Damme movies?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
If ya have a guy with a CCP riding around in a car with a guy packin cocaine, why can't they take his gun and or the *car* (a contradiction with myself though as I have issues with forfeiture laws) ? If he has arrests that have not as yet been adjudicated then why can't the terms of his bail/release include not possessing guns ? Why do we have to scrap the entire SYG ??

Have you considered asking google that question? Checking to see if using a separate legal driver and a clean car to avoid such laws does in fact avoid such laws might be a good idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

More on the Houston incident

http://news.yahoo.com/houston-trial-focusing-stand-ground-law-181804863.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You should know Rodriguez was in the wrong or Nosathro wouldn't have brought it up.