Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Needs Vs. Wants


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Needs Vs. Wants Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/8/2012 6:30:10 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
Are all of these actually needs or are some of them wants?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

The most fundamental and basic four layers of the pyramid contain what Maslow called "deficiency needs" or "d-needs": esteem, friendship and love, security, and physical needs. With the exception of the most fundamental (physiological) needs, if these "deficiency needs" are not met, the body gives no physical indication but the individual feels anxious and tense. Maslow's theory suggests that the most basic level of needs must be met before the individual will strongly desire (or focus motivation upon) the secondary or higher level needs. Maslow also coined the term Metamotivation to describe the motivation of people who go beyond the scope of the basic needs and strive for constant betterment.[7] Metamotivated people are driven by B-needs (Being Needs), instead of deficiency needs (D-Needs).

The human mind and brain are complex and have parallel processes running at the same time, so many different motivations from different levels of Maslow's pyramid usually occur at the same time. Maslow was clear about speaking of these levels and their satisfaction in terms such as "relative" and "general" and "primarily", and says that the human organism is "dominated" by a certain need[8], rather than saying that the individual is "only" focused on a certain need at any given time. So Maslow acknowledges that many different levels of motivation are likely to be going on in a human all at once. His focus in discussing the hierarchy was to identify the basic types of motivations, and the order that they generally progress as lower needs are reasonably well met.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/8/2012 6:36:45 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Actually the fact is that the US did not build wealth, except in the hands of the very few, until we started adopting a hybrid capitalist/socialist system.

The anti trust laws at the turn of the 20th century.
Unemloyment insurance and workers compensation in the teens.
Laws requiring owners to negotiate fairly with unions in 30's
Social Security
the GI Bill
A very progressive tax structure
Medicare

As a matter of fact the decline of the US middle class can be traced to the exact moment when these acomplishments started being systematically undermined.


1970?



This graph shows the income of the given percentiles from 1947 to 2010 in 2010 dollars. The 2 columns of numbers in the right margin are the cumulative growth 1970-2008 and the annual growth rate over that period. The vertical scale is logarithmic, which makes constant percentage growth appear as a straight line.

From 1947 to 1970, all percentiles grew at essentially the same rate; the light, straight lines for the different percentiles for those years all have the same slope. Since then, there has been substantial divergence, with different percentiles of the income distribution growing at different rates.

This plot was created by combining data from the US Census Bureau[40] and the US Internal Revenue Service[41]. There are systematic differences between these two sources, but the differences are small relative to the scale of this plot.[42]


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/8/2012 8:27:31 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Actually the fact is that the US did not build wealth, except in the hands of the very few, until we started adopting a hybrid capitalist/socialist system.

The anti trust laws at the turn of the 20th century.
Unemloyment insurance and workers compensation in the teens.
Laws requiring owners to negotiate fairly with unions in 30's
Social Security
the GI Bill
A very progressive tax structure
Medicare

As a matter of fact the decline of the US middle class can be traced to the exact moment when these acomplishments started being systematically undermined.


1970?

I'd have pegged it to Dick's inauguration in 1969 but 1970 works.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/8/2012 8:35:57 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

Few will disagree with you that Capitalism is flawed. I'm not one of them. There isn't an unflawed system out there. Communism, socialism, etc. have all been tried and failed several times over. While Capitalism isn't perfect, either, it still has done one helluva job building our standard of living here. You want to talk about income and wealth disparities, look at what we have in the US vs. what others have outside of the US. Look how much we have. Look at how large our properties are. It's ridiculous. Better hope there isn't a World-wide "Occupy the USA" movement. We could be fucked.

Look at what we have vs others? Some will argue that historically, American Capitalism has exploited other nations just as British Colonialism did.
How large our properties are? Feudalism was based upon large land owners being served by numerous peasants. Is American Capitalism so different in structure? Large Corporations being served by wage slaves?


Feudalism is definitely not what we have here. How you can take the size of our property and switch it over to large Corporations, I don't know. I don't know where you live, but how widespread we, as a people, are is immense. The most basic reason light rail probably won't work as well as it does in Europe, is that we aren't clustered around major cities like they are. We have spread to the suburbs and beyond. There won't be enough stops to get us where we're going without major modes of transportation in between. If one lived in Cleveland, Columbus, or Cincinnati and worked in one of the other, it could work, but Defiance, Youngstown, Dayton, or Toledo? Our cities and people are too spread out.

And, feudalism depended on the Lord to give freedoms and rights to his serfs. A feudal Lord may be akin to a large Corporation, but, as a country, we are not. There still is time to get back on the path to where We the People give rights and authorities to government, instead of receiving our rights and freedoms from government. That is the fundamental difference between the US and damn near everywhere else in the world back in the '70's; the 1770's.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/8/2012 8:58:36 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
I think most of us can agree on the "basic needs"- {oxygen, food, water, shelter, clothing}.

I am an American citizen and as a citizen of THIS country, I also want to include, the NEED for preventive, emergency, and certain life sustaining medical care.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/8/2012 8:58:44 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Thanks for the response, Bita. I would appreciate if you'd expound on the first part, and if you'd comment on where these needs aren't being met by our profit-based economy.
Again, thanks.

Well, I'm a very basic sort of gal. Needs = food, water and protection from the elements. If you have those three basics, you can survive. Miss any one of them and you're either at risk or you're going to die. Starvation is not the problem in the US that it is in other parts of the world (although malnutrition continues to be a problem here) still, we have citizens who die of starvation, lack of drinkable water and exposure to the elements.
I guess it boils down to perspective, in a land so rich in resources as the US, is one citizen dying from starvation one too many? Is one citizen freezing to death one too many? A question each of us have to answer for ourselves then, I suppose, vote for those who are most in agreement with what, if anything, should or can be done about the situation.


A lot of it boils down to who is responsible for the meeting of those needs. Is it government that should provide for those needs, or is it on the individual? If it's on government, then they need to provide housing, food, and water. In places where the climate changes greatly, they'll also need to provide heating and cooling services, too. Obviously, that's not the way things are here (and I'm not sure there are any places that way), though.

Who *should* be responsible for making sure the basic needs are met?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/9/2012 2:08:50 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I think most of us can agree on the "basic needs"- {oxygen, food, water, shelter, clothing}.

I am an American citizen (and that pertains how?) and as a citizen of THIS country, I also want to include, the NEED for preventive, emergency, and certain life sustaining medical care.


so you are entitled to SERVICES OTHERS PROVIDE as a business.

I want steak and lobster every day, PROVIDE it for me.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/9/2012 2:11:21 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Thanks for the response, Bita. I would appreciate if you'd expound on the first part, and if you'd comment on where these needs aren't being met by our profit-based economy.
Again, thanks.

Well, I'm a very basic sort of gal. Needs = food, water and protection from the elements. If you have those three basics, you can survive. Miss any one of them and you're either at risk or you're going to die. Starvation is not the problem in the US that it is in other parts of the world (although malnutrition continues to be a problem here) still, we have citizens who die of starvation, lack of drinkable water and exposure to the elements.
I guess it boils down to perspective, in a land so rich in resources as the US, is one citizen dying from starvation one too many? Is one citizen freezing to death one too many? A question each of us have to answer for ourselves then, I suppose, vote for those who are most in agreement with what, if anything, should or can be done about the situation.


A lot of it boils down to who is responsible for the meeting of those needs. Is it government that should provide for those needs, or is it on the individual? If it's on government, then they need to provide housing, food, and water. In places where the climate changes greatly, they'll also need to provide heating and cooling services, too. Obviously, that's not the way things are here (and I'm not sure there are any places that way), though.

Who *should* be responsible for making sure the basic needs are met?



entertainment, limo service, servants ALL should be provided by the government since they want to stick their noce into private affairs.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/9/2012 8:01:19 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

A lot of it boils down to who is responsible for the meeting of those needs. Is it government that should provide for those needs, or is it on the individual? If it's on government, then they need to provide housing, food, and water. In places where the climate changes greatly, they'll also need to provide heating and cooling services, too. Obviously, that's not the way things are here (and I'm not sure there are any places that way), though.

Who *should* be responsible for making sure the basic needs are met?


As I asked, suggested, implied in #9 above, if the Community does not supply basic needs, those needs are available only to the extent that one can afford them. Consequently, they are commodities to be bought and sold in the market. There is a moral/political imperative enshrined in our Declaration of Independence by T. Jefferson:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Seems to me that morally these needs are in fact Rights.

Your thoughts?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/9/2012 10:16:44 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Who *should* be responsible for making sure the basic needs are met?


DS.. if I had the answer to that question, *I* would be running for president and given the choices, I might even get a vote or two. The difference between me and most politicians is that I'm not willing to sell my soul to get elected.

Things like this.. I look at my little brother Noah - he can't speak, feed himself, clean, cook, walk or go to the bathroom without assistance. His mom takes care of him but she won't be around forever. Who 'should' then be called upon to care for him?

I guess whoever is willing to take up the cause is the best answer.

Other than that.. I got nothing.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/9/2012 10:41:30 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

needs aren't being met by our profit-based economy.



Health care is a great example of a need not being met by our profit based economy. For profit health insurance companies hate paying claims so much they hire people to find ways to get out of paying. Better to let innocent people die than cut into their precious profits. I know every system has flaws and single-payer health care isn't perfect, but a business trying to make a profit is far more likely to refuse to pay for life saving treatment than any non-profit, including the government. Health care is a need, not a want. Our current health care system is kinder to prisoners than to law abiding citizens. Did you hear about the convenience store clerk that robbed a bank for $1 in an attempt to gain access to the prison system's single-payer health care?


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/9/2012 2:59:53 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
Great topic DS. Only hope its a discussion that will maintain integrity and rival the "All things Zimmerman" thread.

Corporation & Govermental Feudalism

While it has been pointed out that each goverment type is not without its flaws and problems, I think I would have to include the 'corporation' as a goverment archtype. Its a model used mainly in the business world, but has been introduced in varily degrees to entities big and small over the decades. Feudalism became the unwritten rule for many an employee. If an employee made their manager look good before their superiors, good things would happen. When the employ's manager was promoted, they too would be promoted higher into the company. Just like in the 'old days' of kings and queens, those whom made their lords and lady's look good, were often given gifts and titles. Back in the old days, there were flags and heraldary markers to denote ranking, status, and maybe titles. Today's corporations have their own logo's. In both cases, the 'common folk' can readily reconize these flags/logos for what they represent. An app I found for a friend was entitled 'Logo Quiz'. I was not surprised just how many logos I reconized (got to the 8th level in a week or two).

Likewise, the pay structure of medival kings and morden CEO's is the same: They get more than the lion's share of funds. Those at the highest parts of either goverment structure netted a handsome profit, while those at the low or middle rungs, recieved a petty amount in comparison. The 'managers' at the top, hold all the power, and can dictate terms to the low and middle rungs with impunity. Using laws and 'enforcement' concepts, they can keep the populace as a whole hostage and obedient. In the old days, they'd just chop of limbs, throw you in the dungeon, or feed you to lions. Modern day, they just send swarms of lawyers on you. You can debate which is worst....

Given the status of things in 2012, it seems that we Americans have both a nobility and common folk groups at work. The nobility operates on a set or rules and laws that in some instances places them 'above the law' to which common folks must abide by. The Founding Fathers did not like how the nobility treated those below them, nor got away with murder. So they devious a 'blue print' by which a nation would handle its rules and regulations. That every person is held to the same laws regardless of their social or income level. And that those that wish to run for elected office at a federal level, could come from all walks of life, INCLUDING the poor! How many 'common folk' are in Congress right now? Compare that to the number of 'Nobility'? Because its a well known fact, that to run for federal office, one must have multiple millions (if not tens of millions). Not many 'common folk' have assets above the $1 million mark enough to 'throw away like confetti' for a chance to be a Representative or Senator in Washington, D.C.

With the introduction of The Union, created something the medival feudal kings never had to worry about: Goverment 'Of the People, By the People, For the People' deciding that the laws of the land should apply across the board, and not as a two tier society (Nobles/Upper Management and everyone else in the other). While the Union has gotten its share of 'flak' over the decades as a govermental structure in and itself; it has improved the lives of those under it and around it in ways and manners unheard of in civilized mankind before it! 40 Hour work weeks, decent pay, health coverage, time off to birth child, flex time, safety systems, and many others. The kings of old, would have just put these citizen's to the hangman's noose; but modern corporations can not do so as directly (but are working hard to do just that).

Regulated Capitalism

A concept not taught in modern business schools anymore! In previous decades, the concept was well understood as a way to keep greed in check. Capitalism, as most Americans have witness within the last five to seven years, is that if left uncheck can do great amounts of damage to a nation's (if not world's) economy. Like leaving a hungry fox in the hen house and expect nothing to happen. Regulated Capitalism was the idea that 'Of the People, By the People, For the People' would create reasonable rules and regulations that kept the public safe from predatory business practices while allowing immese levels of growth and productivity (aka profit). As mankind's understanding of the sciences increased, we learned that some products were made incorrectly or inefficiently or were they themselves bad (i.e. asbestos). Not only products, but services or the manner in which business people dealt with the public (i.e. Sear's Bait and Switch). As Americans learned more, products grew both in depth (types of the same product) and degree (different types of products). This resulted in goverment issuing forth rules and regulations. Many of these laws were enacted to prevent or limit a negative behavior that would have damaging effects on citizens. This was a concept often taught with the old board game of 'Monopoly'.

In Monopoly (or the game of 'Buy, Sell, and Foreclose on your Friends!'), there are rules to how the game is played. How things can be bought and sold, along with unpleasent concepts like "Go to Jail" and 'Bankruptcy". In the normal, standard game, there are no rules for getting anything on 'Free Parking'. Many people have created their own individual 'house rules' or 'regulations' that some form of money is collected/placed on Free Parking. As the game progresses, the total player base will be dimished down to one (the winner). And most people will pass when offered to play the game because the belief is, the game takes.....way to long....to play out. Regardless, the game is a concept for 'Regulated Capitalism' in the sense that most things are 'standardized' and only one's luck and business skills determine success or not.

Now if the 'regulated capitalism' component was removed from Monopoly, could it still be played? Yes, to a point. To explain this, consider the scenario: Four players are midway through a game (your one of them). One guy is in the lead, two others are doing 'ok' (your one of these players) and the last one is doing badly. One of the players in the 'ok' group lands on Boardwalk with a hotel. He doesnt have the $2000 needed to pay without reducing houses and morgaging properties. So obviously, he is in a serious situation. Rather than do all those things, he just takes $3000 from the bank directly and calls it a 'Goverment Bail-Out' (with no strings attached). He hands the $2000 to the owner of Boardwalk and pockets the rest. Now, what do the rest of the players do? The losing player will automatically side with this player (cus he has everything to gain from it). The player winning states its not in the rules and therefore should not be allowed to have it. Your the deciding vote. You could side with the player losing two grand and 'allow anarchy to enter the game', or the one winning 'siding with regulated capitalism'. If you go to the first side, the game will never end and no one will ever lose or win. If you side with the second person, the game will have an end, but its not predicted WHO will be the winner.

...Either one of these concepts, could be its own thread. The depth of the discussion is however, doubtful, as most 'common folk' have thrown their hands up in disgust and irrelavence that nothing can be done.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/9/2012 3:32:31 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

On the WalMart thread, a "needs based" economy was brought up.

YSG commented thusly:

    "No, no a resource based economy, but an economy based on need instead of profit, where we work with each other instead of for each other."


That drives me to think about what needs we, as a people, as a Nation, as a world have. What needs aren't being met and who's needs aren't being met.

YSG also posited:

    "My issue with the world at large is that most people do not see that there IS another way. Greed is a superficial emotion, driven by petty insecurity. Money has no value except what WE place on it. Production and progress are the very nature of mankind, they need no external stimuli. We were not ment to live like this, enslaved to our employers through debt and the need of money. "


While he is correct that money, in and of itself, doesn't hold any value, it does represent value. It is a useful unit of trade. Looking at it as anything else should not be done. You can say that it is "purchasing power." One who holds a lot of money, has the power or ability to purchase more than one who holds less money.

I'm very interested in a civil discussion - it has to be civil or else we'll not be discussing anything, just flaming back and forth; I'll do my part if you do yours - about needs and wants. What needs are there and what constitutes a need vs. a want.

Go.


I need Pamela Anderson.

I want oxygen.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/10/2012 4:44:37 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I think most of us can agree on the "basic needs"- {oxygen, food, water, shelter, clothing}.
I am an American citizen and as a citizen of THIS country, I also want to include, the NEED for preventive, emergency, and certain life sustaining medical care.


Those "needs" can be met as you read this. What most people who gripe about our health care delivery system are really griping about is how expensive it is (and I am in that group). But, if someone has to provide that service, who should be paying for it? How much should the provider be paid? Who should get to decide what the provider gets paid?

Medical care is not a right. I can even make the statement that it's a want. The only time you actually need non-emergency care is to extend your life. Emergency care isn't even a right, even the care that isn't dealing with the life-threatening incidents (ie. broken leg).



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/10/2012 5:31:14 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Medical care is not a right. I can even make the statement that it's a want. The only time you actually need non-emergency care is to extend your life. Emergency care isn't even a right, even the care that isn't dealing with the life-threatening incidents (ie. broken leg).


As long as your life isn't threatened it's okay to suffer ongoing excrutiating pain without concern or help from the Community? Seems a heartless market philosophy. Pain relief is a commodity available only to those who can afford to purchase it?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/10/2012 6:24:29 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether



Good post!

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/10/2012 9:29:15 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

Medical care is not a right. I can even make the statement that it's a want. The only time you actually need non-emergency care is to extend your life. Emergency care isn't even a right, even the care that isn't dealing with the life-threatening incidents (ie. broken leg).

As long as your life isn't threatened it's okay to suffer ongoing excrutiating pain without concern or help from the Community? Seems a heartless market philosophy. Pain relief is a commodity available only to those who can afford to purchase it?


Um, excruciating pain sucks. Of that I will not argue. But, you can live with pain. Many do. I most certainly hope to not.

And here, again, is where you are bitching about the cost of care being so high. Why is it the Community's problem if you are in pain? Was it the Community's fault your leg is broken? Why does the cost of fixing your leg fall on the Community when it wasn't at fault?

quote:

ORIGINAL" vincentML
As I asked, suggested, implied in #9 above, if the Community does not supply basic needs, those needs are available only to the extent that one can afford them. Consequently, they are commodities to be bought and sold in the market. There is a moral/political imperative enshrined in our Declaration of Independence by T. Jefferson:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
Seems to me that morally these needs are in fact Rights.
Your thoughts?


The right to Life isn't being infringed on if you can't afford housing. There are charities that can and will help you. There is the community helping you out with housing. You require food to live, but if you go into a random stranger's house and start eating their food, can you tell them to fuck off because you have the right to their food because of a right to Life? Same goes with water.

The right to Liberty isn't infringed by anyone if you are responsible for your actions. In fact, if you aren't taking care of your own issues, you are infringing on the every one's right to Liberty. You are forcing them to provide for you. If you call that Liberty for them, you need to look up some definitions.

The right to pursue Happiness. Quite a lovely right, and, you do understand that some pursuits end in failure, right? You do not have the right to be happy. You have the right to pursue happiness. How you decide to pursue it is up to you (hey, looky there...liberty and freedom to choose your path....coincidence? I think not). Demanding a specific level of happiness can not be given without taking from someone else. And, that, requires an infringement on their liberty, freedom, and, possibly, their chosen pursuit of happiness.

I could very easily say that my happiness is a black 1970 Corvette Stingray and a horny redhead with a passion for dick and cum unsurpassed anywhere else. Does that mean it is up to you, the Community, or Government to give me that level of Happiness? No. No it is not.

If you can't get a job that earns you enough money to get all the "stuff" you want, your pursuit of happiness is limited by you, not someone else. If you're not smart enough to be able to make it through Medical School and become a physician (I might be, but definitely don't have the discipline or motivation), are you owed a physician's salary anyway? If you were born without the genetic jackpot and into a family that couldn't afford every possible extra training, do you still have the right to an NFL QB salary?

You pick your path. You make your happiness. If you pursue and fail, it's not anyone's fault but your own.

Your right to Life is not infringed on if you are denied medical care you have not purchased. If you get cancer (and I don't wish that on anyone), your right to Life isn't infringed if you are denied medical care. If you are going to make the case that you have the right to any medical care, or it's an infringement on your right to Life, are you also going to argue that Big Pharma, every physician everywhere, Government, and everywhere else they're doing medical research can be sued if you die from something they haven't found a cure for yet?

Can you not see that the only way you have a right to an actual commodity, it has to be taken from someone else?

And, before I go too apeshit, let's take a peek at something else Mr. Jefferson wrote in that amazing document we call the Declaration of Independence (interestingly enough, it is the very next line after your quote):

    quote:

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed


Government is instituted among Men, why? To secure our rights. That isn't providing our rights. It is all about making our rights safe, protecting our rights. Government gets it's authorities and powers from us. It doesn't give us our rights.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/10/2012 9:43:51 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
For me personally, I have one need....my faith. Anything else after that is a want/desire.
I learned many many years ago that as long as I have that, everything else falls into place and that most things in life are simply not that important enough to be concerned about.



_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/11/2012 2:52:58 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I think most of us can agree on the "basic needs"- {oxygen, food, water, shelter, clothing}.
I am an American citizen and as a citizen of THIS country, I also want to include, the NEED for preventive, emergency, and certain life sustaining medical care.


Those "needs" can be met as you read this. What most people who gripe about our health care delivery system are really griping about is how expensive it is (and I am in that group). But, if someone has to provide that service, who should be paying for it? How much should the provider be paid? Who should get to decide what the provider gets paid?

Medical care is not a right. I can even make the statement that it's a want. The only time you actually need non-emergency care is to extend your life. Emergency care isn't even a right, even the care that isn't dealing with the life-threatening incidents (ie. broken leg).



A significant percentage of health care cost is profit for the insurance company, hospital and pharmaceutical companies that other nations simply do not pay. These are unnecessary and parasitic costs that do not improve the quality or quantity of care delivered.

Going to a more socialized system, single payer able to negotiate pricing with all providers, would directly reduce costs and no doctor or nurse would go hungry.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Needs Vs. Wants - 6/11/2012 6:19:34 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
Don't believe most off what you read about the NHS because its mainly propaganda. Whilst you may well here the Brits grumbling about the NHS they still remain fiercely protective of its existence. I'm relieved to come from a country with true socialized medicine. I also have the choice to go private and our private system is run very much like the American one but with such a huge competitor in their midst ( the British government) the cost of private medicine isn't ridiculously high.

I only have one word for the American medical system ....... Corrupt

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Needs Vs. Wants Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094