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Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 2:45:19 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline 		Is there Imagination in BDSM?

In another thread I stated that it was imaginative minds that has made BDSM great. Another poster found BDSM to not be creative at all and rather mundane.

So naturally I need to ask the community how do you feel?

There have been highly imaginative people in BDSM and it has helped shape where BDSM today. The photography work of Irving Klaw (Bettie Page model). The highly creative illustrations of John Willie, Eric Stanton, Robert Bishop, Eric Kroll, Namio Harukawa, Sardax and others. John Sutcliffe and his legacy of Atomage Magazine. Tim Woodward and photographer Grace Lau and their legacy of Skin Two magazine. The highly creative rubber outfits of Keith and Moria Comfort (former owners of Cocoon). And the list goes on and on.

I have found the world of BDSM to be full of imagination. I feel the mundane is the vanilla lifestyle. I feel people can let their imagination flow and flourish with BDSM. Many people comment that it is not the physical attraction that make BDSM fun it’s the mental aspect. I have found that to be very true. I have found the creativity of the mind is almost limitless.

So what say you……Is there imagination in BDSM?


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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 2:47:09 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I have none, zilch, nada. Master on the other hand, let's just say there are times when I wish he wasn't so imaginative. Don't even get him started.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 2:50:28 PM   
Endivius


Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline 		I know of a bottom or two that has experienced some of my perdicaments and would have issue with the notion that bdsm doesn't benefit from creative imagination. I've woke up more than once from a slumber with an idea that was so awesome it had to be put to paper and pen just so I wouldn't forget it later. I'm odd though.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 3:20:47 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		As I'm the bad hat who stated that most of the imagery in BDSM is cliched, stripped threadbare by repetition, and was often banal even when new, I suppose I should address this one.
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321
There have been highly imaginative people in BDSM and it has helped shape where BDSM today. The photography work of Irving Klaw (Bettie Page model). The highly creative illustrations of John Willie, Eric Stanton, Robert Bishop, Eric Kroll, Namio Harukawa, Sardax and others. John Sutcliffe and his legacy of Atomage Magazine. Tim Woodward and photographer Grace Lau and their legacy of Skin Two magazine. The highly creative rubber outfits of Keith and Moria Comfort (former owners of Cocoon). And the list goes on and on.

There have been highly imaginative people producing pornography aimed at people into S&M, yes. There's also a lot more limp minded plagiarists who make even the best of the originators' work look banal merely by association with their shoddy, heartless pastiches. Several of the people you name fit into this camp, and a couple only resemble John Willie to the same extent that Andrew Lloyd Webber resembles Cole Porter. It's inevitable that anybody who actually produces original imagery will soon be plagiarised half to death, but it's inarguable that a lot of the imagery associated with BDSM has long since been stripped bare and rendered utterly stale by constant repetition by artists with nothing to say besides "I like those photos of Bette Page in bondage".

quote:

I have found the world of BDSM to be full of imagination. I feel the mundane is the vanilla lifestyle. I feel people can let their imagination flow and flourish with BDSM. Many people comment that it is not the physical attraction that make BDSM fun it’s the mental aspect. I have found that to be very true. I have found the creativity of the mind is almost limitless.

BDSM is based on cliches. The rigorous formalising is actually a big part of the appeal for most. There's no doubt that it's a mental process, but it's one that has almost nothing to do with the type of imagination you were trying to connect a bunch of threadbare power fantasies which almost everybody has harboured at one point or another. The nice thing about cliches, is that the reason they become cliches in the first place is that they signify something to almost everybody. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a long way from Ray Bradbury. I honestly don't think you can claim to be a great fount of imagination when everything that you imagine is also imagined by millions of other people in pretty much exactly the same terms.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 6/8/2012 3:22:00 PM >

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 3:49:53 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		I know some are into bondage, watching them I would say they are very imaginative.  Also consider role playing and such, that would involve Imagination

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 4:18:10 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		I never really thought about it until I looked at some of your toys. Then.....

I thought about wrapping you head to ankle in rubber. Suspending your from the ceiling so your toes might just barely touch the floor. Putting headphones on you so you couldn't hear anything that was going on around you. Making those headphones pump the sound of a crying baby or a screaming woman into your ears for hours, until you lost track of time and your surroundings. Putting tacks or ice on the floor so you really wouldn't want to touch it but knowing at some point or another you would. Touching you from time to time, or letting others, just to see if you would jump or try to pull away. Bringing along the pet and screwing him while ignoring you knowing you wouldn't even know what was going on in the room with you. Then sticking my fingers in your mouth and letting you wonder where they had been. Sliding ice cubes up and down the rubber. Making you guess words as I spelled them out on your skin. Smacking you every time you guessed the word wrong. Treating you to something a bit nicer if you got the word right. Waiting until you beg to be let down then doing it only if.....well I'm not telling you that part.

(the above is a pg13 version of my brain, you tell me if I'm creative or not)

Is the rest of the bdsm world creative? That is like asking if the whole world is creative. Some people are, some people aren't. It is simple enough to figure out. We may do some "kinky" things but we are all still just people.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 4:18:50 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		I think it takes a slightly stronger personality and self image to step outside the social norms. To a small degree, sometimes that implies higher intellect. I feel it is the personality trait more than the intellect that gives them the strength to feast on forbidden fruit. The higher imagination factor maybe be measurable but I do not think it is an overwhelming factor.

I think the BDSM community is only a little more imaginative than your average slice of vanilla community.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 4:36:18 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I know some are into bondage, watching them I would say they are very imaginative.  Also consider role playing and such, that would involve Imagination

Inventing new roles to play requires imagination. Going through the motions in a role that mirrors your favourite piece of erotica and/or has been around so long that it's become a cliche doesn't really, imo.

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 4:49:28 PM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline 		I just see people .. individual people living individual lifestyles. I don't think BDSM has got anything to do with it to be honest.

The thing about creativity and imagination is that it will be appreciated and acknowledged by some but not by others. It depends on their own individual tastes and whether they can relate to the idea or whatever is being created.

Jack Rinella is seen by some as a fantastic writer, but so too is Stephen King and there is nothing to suggest that Stephen King in his lifestyle does anything kinky.

But then again I see BDSM as a subculture made up of people each living their own individual lifestyle based around a preference for relationships which differ in some ways from the mainstream.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 5:14:56 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

I never really thought about it until I looked at some of your toys. Then.....

I thought about wrapping you head to ankle in rubber. Suspending your from the ceiling so your toes might just barely touch the floor. Putting headphones on you so you couldn't hear anything that was going on around you. Making those headphones pump the sound of a crying baby or a screaming woman into your ears for hours, until you lost track of time and your surroundings. Putting tacks or ice on the floor so you really wouldn't want to touch it but knowing at some point or another you would. Touching you from time to time, or letting others, just to see if you would jump or try to pull away. Bringing along the pet and screwing him while ignoring you knowing you wouldn't even know what was going on in the room with you. Then sticking my fingers in your mouth and letting you wonder where they had been. Sliding ice cubes up and down the rubber. Making you guess words as I spelled them out on your skin. Smacking you every time you guessed the word wrong. Treating you to something a bit nicer if you got the word right. Waiting until you beg to be let down then doing it only if.....well I'm not telling you that part.

(the above is a pg13 version of my brain, you tell me if I'm creative or not)

Is the rest of the bdsm world creative? That is like asking if the whole world is creative. Some people are, some people aren't. It is simple enough to figure out. We may do some "kinky" things but we are all still just people.


This is what I mean by BDSM allowing a person to be creative and their imagination to flourish . A simple thought or image sets off a whole chain reaction of thoughts, ideas and images you had not previously thought about or imagined. Its not cliched or mundane but ever evolving.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 5:51:05 PM   
MissToYouRedux


Posts: 867
Joined: 1/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

This is what I mean by BDSM allowing a person to be creative and their imagination to flourish . A simple thought or image sets off a whole chain reaction of thoughts, ideas and images you had not previously thought about or imagined. Its not cliched or mundane but ever evolving.



Granted that was a fun read, and there can (and in my not so humble opinion should) be creativity, but honestly the majority of people who approach me consider a specific sex act done for *hours* to be the epitome of submission so I personally get Moonhead's point.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 6:12:53 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

(the above is a pg13 version of my brain, you tell me if I'm creative or not)


/THUD/

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 6:13:57 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I have found the world of BDSM to be full of imagination. I feel the mundane is the vanilla lifestyle. I feel people can let their imagination flow and flourish with BDSM. Many people comment that it is not the physical attraction that make BDSM fun it’s the mental aspect. I have found that to be very true. I have found the creativity of the mind is almost limitless.


This has been my experience as well.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 6:17:50 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline 		There are a lot of cliches in BDSM and in vanilla porn as well. I do not argue that at all. That will never change. At the sametime there are truly brilliant creative minds as well in BDSM. I think BDSM allows for a very creative outlet that cannot be found elsewhere.

I do get your point on the singley fixed fantasy approach. I was probably that guy 30 years ago. I often wondered (back then) what would happen if I ever got to realize my ultimate fantasy? Growing, maturing, meeting other kinky people over the years created a 1000 new ones. Bondage is just that, bondage. Role play is role play. What makes it different, creative and imaginative is the two people interacting.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 6:27:22 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Mummy...I came back....and I think I have to say something else here. I don't think you quesiton should have been is there imagination in bdsm but maybe does bdsm allow for more imagination. Or if you would like me to dumb it down a little...do we get away with more because folks figure most of us are freaks anyway and don't really want to pay attention to what we are doing. As I said in my other post some people are creative and some aren't but I do think that (I can't believe I'm actually going to say this) the "community" lets our thoughts run a little more freely than they would be allowed in other genres. As most genres have rules but bdsm is one of the few that says no one has to follows the rules if they don't want to. That sort of naturally leads to people having to be at least a little creative about how they are going to live their life.

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It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 6:29:07 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		I hope that didn't hurt....at least I think I hope it didn't hurt, maybe I hope it did and I just haven't realized it yet

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 6:49:12 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 7:20:28 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

I have found the world of BDSM to be full of imagination. I feel the mundane is the vanilla lifestyle. I feel people can let their imagination flow and flourish with BDSM. Many people comment that it is not the physical attraction that make BDSM fun it’s the mental aspect. I have found that to be very true. I have found the creativity of the mind is almost limitless.

So what say you……Is there imagination in BDSM?


definitely yes! well said.

i can attest to sexuality being almost ALL in the mind. the mind is the biggest and best sex organ.

case in point - i can't get too excited if i'm not in control - just not that interested.

re imagination - it's not what you have, but what you do with it.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/8/2012 9:27:43 PM   
subbyinlosangele


Posts: 117
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Is there Imagination in BDSM?

In another thread I stated that it was imaginative minds that has made BDSM great. Another poster found BDSM to not be creative at all and rather mundane.

So naturally I need to ask the community how do you feel?

There have been highly imaginative people in BDSM and it has helped shape where BDSM today. The photography work of Irving Klaw (Bettie Page model). The highly creative illustrations of John Willie, Eric Stanton, Robert Bishop, Eric Kroll, Namio Harukawa, Sardax and others. John Sutcliffe and his legacy of Atomage Magazine. Tim Woodward and photographer Grace Lau and their legacy of Skin Two magazine. The highly creative rubber outfits of Keith and Moria Comfort (former owners of Cocoon). And the list goes on and on.

I have found the world of BDSM to be full of imagination. I feel the mundane is the vanilla lifestyle. I feel people can let their imagination flow and flourish with BDSM. Many people comment that it is not the physical attraction that make BDSM fun it’s the mental aspect. I have found that to be very true. I have found the creativity of the mind is almost limitless.

So what say you……Is there imagination in BDSM?



I bristle against the word "community."

I enjoy integrating BDSM into my life but honestly I have no desire to be part of a BDSM community.

I also think it's silly to think of BDSM and vanilla as black and white rather than as spectrum.

Honestly, it seems like you're just patting yourself on the back to me.

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RE: Is There Imagination in BDSM? - 6/9/2012 1:05:45 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		BDSM folk ain't no more or less imaginative than anybody else.
There ain't anything special about us-we just another microcosm slice of society-that's all.

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HST

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