RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (Full Version)

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MissImmortalPain -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:01:33 PM)

My hateful comments? You are the one that excused how many people die of something by saying that they actually die from something else. I was only giving another example of where this kind of "logic" could be used. I'm not even going to get into you saying you know how many years you have left because of your illness when you say it doesn't kill that many people. To be perfectly honest you made the whole issue seem small, which is the only thing I have an issue with. I tried to stay on topic. I asked you about how one would end up on this list. I even honestly said I have lied to peope on here before. I honestly don't care what you do with your dick or who you do it with. I even , sort of, said I agreed with you about people being honest and intelligent while on the net(lets test them all) and when you asked personal questions about why I am here and not out enjoying this wonderful saturday afternoon....I answered you if you think I have posted something out of line or against the TOS for this site....take it up with a mod. If you can not do that at least try to answer the questions I did ask you about your original topic.

Shame on me? Shame on you sir for pointing fingers and stomping your feet when you did not get the answers you wanted to hear just the way you wanted them to be worded.



evesgrden -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:03:30 PM)

I've only caught bits and pieces of this thread, but let's say you put together your little data base. So now MissColorMeKinky is outed for bailing out without saying goodbye and is blacklisted.

What's to stop her from registering again under another name?

Look, it sounds to me like you want your pound of flesh. You had your hopes up over someone who ultimately decided "no thanks". That doesn't make them a fake. It makes them rude. A blacklist of anonymous names is hardly going to discourage liars who can come with a new profile in less than 5 minutes.

And now that you've spend I don't know how many hours on this, you're vested in convincing others that you're right when you have no foundation for believing that a blacklist would change behavior.

Pshornyguy... I suggest you just call it a day. This is the online world, and whether you're talking d/s or not, people bail, they lie, and you have no idea wtf happened. It's just part of the chance you take by trying to meet people on the internet.



MissImmortalPain -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:09:55 PM)

I would like all by it's self to address you asking if I hate gay men, or men in general.....cute that you looked at my profile. Do the words female supremacy bother you that much? For the record the most beautiful person to ever enter my life, to in my opinion infact to ever walk this planet, was a gay man that was taken from my life six years ago do to an AIDs related condition. He was then and still is now an angel. There should be more people on this planet with the kind of heart he had. I morn him everyday. Kindly do not again comment on what I may or may not think about one group of people.



LadyPact -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:12:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pshornyguy

I 'pick and choose' who I want to respond to? I think I have responded to almost everyone here.

Actually, I've asked a few questions on this thread that you haven't answered, so I'm calling shenanigans.



pshornyguy -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:12:58 PM)

Sorry but you still don't understand. You are creating a fictional situation which does not apply to what I am attempting to explain here. I guess you prefer to dwell upon your fabrications rather than deal with the actual situation?

MY ATTITUDE and UNSAFE SEX:

EVERYONE knows at the beginning of my conversations who I am and what my preferences are.

Assuming (for sake of discussion) that somebody contacts me WITHOUT looking at my profile, then the first 3 minutes of my conversation with those folks, immediately reveals my HIV-status and my sex preferences. That simply NEVER is an issue MeanGirl.

My "attitude" as expressed in my profiles and in my conversations is precisely what many guys tell me is the reason that they are attracted to me!. I constantly am being told that they cannot find a genuine dom or Master in their area so they contact me here on CM or on other websites or via Yahoo IM.

YOUR WEIGHT and THE LIST:

Have you not read anything I have posted here?

For the 102nd time -- "not listing" your weight is NOT an issue. Nobody could even hypothetically be "listed" for that!

Please read that again. It is NOT an issue!

The issue is HONESTY --- such as if you are asked to specify your height and weight or some other physical characteristic BUT you then give an answer which is FALSE ---- particularly if this becomes apparent as an OVERALL PATTERN of your behavior i.e. you DO NOT provide honest answers to questions about yourself or your preferences.

DO YOU FINALLY GET IT NOW??? -- or would you prefer to create yet another fictional straw-man for me to argue against?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

Hornyguy,

I don't place my exact weight, or any weight AT ALL, on my profile. I would prefer to have people see my size for themselves in my recent pictures I have on my profile. So is not listing my weight going to get me on your" List?" I mean I'm not lying, just not tellling you in numbers. I'm using pictures instead. That whole list is ridiculous.

Why can't you realize that maybe people are not getting back to you because of your attitudes and unsafe sex practices? This is the internet, full of strangers who are nothing more than pixels on your screen. They don't owe you anything at all. Get over it arleady and move on.

NBMG




Killerangel -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:14:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Master2811

I am totally on your side. It has nothing to do with preferences. It has to do with cleansing this site from people who do not belong here. Money scammers and such people.


Are you and the OP the arbitrators of the site to decide who belongs here and who does not? Get this through your head...some people WANT to be taken advantage of, it's a kink Sparky. To say that Joe Blow who wants to be wallet raped is not allowed to indulge in his kink because you don't want it to be so is not fair. Saying that manipulation should be outlawed, financial and otherwise, is not what every person on this site wants. Some people desire to be manipulated, it gets them off.

It has everything to do with preferences. The preferences that adults have and want to pursue. You are not the deciding factor on what preferences are legitimate and what preferences are not. Maybe some men come here to ogle the pics of nubile young money scammers and masturbate, who are you to say they can't? Financial slavery, and various permutations of BDSM connected with money, are a legit kink, get it through your head. Asking to cleanse a kink site of kink shows your ignorance as well as the OP's -who wants to decide which kink is ok and which is not. In his world people 'should' be looking for long term D/s relationships and nothing outside of that is legit, it's fake. It's not his call to make how people interpret D/s, and it's not your call to make what kinks people can indulge in or not.

The two of you are proposing censorship.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:16:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pshornyguy

Like every other website, CM has a significant percentage of fakes and liars -- i.e. people who have no genuine interest in Master/slave or Dom/sub relationships OR who are attempting to manipulate people here into believing they are seriously interested in somebody when they are not.

Instead, these fakes and liars create a fictional persona intended to seduce men or women into believing that they are genuinely interested in becoming a slave or sub.

I would like to propose that we create a database to list all of the fakes/liars on CM so that anyone could consult the list to discover the screen names, email addresses, and other identifying info about them.

Is there anyone else interested in this proposal? I would suggest the following criteria for adding people to the list of fakes and liars:

1. promise to send pics but then never does so
2. promise to contact again (thru email or instant message) but never does so
3. dishonest or highly suspect profile details (such as phony age, weight, height, or other attributes OR discovering profiles on other websites that present materially different details about same person)
4. dishonest responses to questions or comments (such as giving different answers at different times)

Anyone have other suggestions?


Motherfucking sons of bitches!!!!!

(I KNEW they were lying sacks! Thanks for confirming it!).



pshornyguy -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:17:57 PM)

Well, maybe I overlooked them --or-- sometimes I address questions asked by person #1 which I assume cover questions asked by person #2 or #3 -- so ask again and I will answwer. Surely, you cannot seriously maintain that I am not answering questions here after 344 messages and 18 pages of text!!!!


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: pshornyguy

I 'pick and choose' who I want to respond to? I think I have responded to almost everyone here.

Actually, I've asked a few questions on this thread that you haven't answered, so I'm calling shenanigans.





LadyPact -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:19:46 PM)

Here's the most recent one. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

OK, back on topic.

Seriously, I'm Lady Pact everywhere.  Here, Fet, any type of event that I go to, I'm Lady Pact. 

I completely suck at updating My profile.  I don't wake up on My birthday and rush here to change the age.  If I gain ten pounds, I don't come here straight from the scale to change it on My profile.  I've had times that I planned on going to one munch or another and didn't make it for various reasons.  Literally, no kidding, I've been the person who got into a car wreck (GA) on the way to the munch.  I've had to miss a get together because it snowed in My little town (CA) for the first time in ten years.  I've had to skip munches due to fog, severe rain, personal crap, and probably a dozen other things if I sat here and thought about it real hard.

Tell Me how I wouldn't end up on your fake list?


ETA - When I wrote the above, I completely forgot about not updating My location, not once, but twice, while in the process of moving across the country.



pshornyguy -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:21:43 PM)

OK---there is NOTHING in my proposal that would in any way prevent prevent or diminish that activity, i.e. somebody who wants to be taken advantage of.

My proposal is intended to address those persons here who DO NOT want to be taken advantage of or manipulated by dishonest CM members.

For the 103rd time----I have NEVER advocated "outlawing" anybody on this site. In fact, I have stated over and over and over again, that there would be NO PENALITIES WHATSOEVER -- so please present your fictional straw-man arguments elsewhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Killerangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Master2811

I am totally on your side. It has nothing to do with preferences. It has to do with cleansing this site from people who do not belong here. Money scammers and such people.


Are you and the OP the arbitrators of the site to decide who belongs here and who does not? Get this through your head...some people WANT to be taken advantage of, it's a kink Sparky. To say that Joe Blow who wants to be wallet raped is not allowed to indulge in his kink because you don't want it to be so is not fair. Saying that manipulation should be outlawed, financial and otherwise, is not what every person on this site wants. Some people desire to be manipulated, it gets them off.

It has everything to do with preferences. The preferences that adults have and want to pursue. You are not the deciding factor on what preferences are legitimate and what preferences are not. Maybe some men come here to ogle the pics of nubile young money scammers and masturbate, who are you to say they can't? Financial slavery, and various permutations of BDSM connected with money, are a legit kink, get it through your head. Asking to cleanse a kink site of kink shows your ignorance as well as the OP's -who wants to decide which kink is ok and which is not. In his world people 'should' be looking for long term D/s relationships and nothing outside of that is legit, it's fake. It's not his call to make how people interpret D/s, and it's not your call to make what kinks people can indulge in or not.

The two of you are proposing censorship.




Karmastic -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:25:34 PM)

it's a specious argument that having a bad rating is not a PENALTY.

and you again ignore that it's allowing a bunch of anon people to give another anon person a rating, which ultimately is mob rule. it's not the same thing as rating a restaurant, and open to more abuses, and it's value outweighs it's risks and it's weaknesses in being easy to avoid with new profiles.

ps edit - thank you for your ideas, and sticking up for them, even if they're misguided. and your rebuttals were entertaining, like rational matter colliding with irrational anti-matter.

GET YOUR POPCORN, FRESH HOT POPCORN HERE!



pshornyguy -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:28:00 PM)

You would not end up on my list because you are not consciously and deliberately misrepresenting yourself.

Furthermore, there is no pattern of dishonesty which would cause somebody to list you -- unless when asked a direct question, you deliberately lie to multiple different people???

I am not talking about minor discrepancies in age or weight. My weight has changed during the past 2-3 years and I have not always updated my profiles but if somebody ASKS ME, I would tell them my correct weight but, for example, suppose somebody asked you for your weight on April 30th and you said 150# but on May 17th you were asked again by that same person (and you forgot you had previously said 150#) and your new answer is 195# --- then wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that you were not being honest because nobody gains 45 pounds in 2 weeks?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Here's the most recent one. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

OK, back on topic.

Seriously, I'm Lady Pact everywhere.  Here, Fet, any type of event that I go to, I'm Lady Pact. 

I completely suck at updating My profile.  I don't wake up on My birthday and rush here to change the age.  If I gain ten pounds, I don't come here straight from the scale to change it on My profile.  I've had times that I planned on going to one munch or another and didn't make it for various reasons.  Literally, no kidding, I've been the person who got into a car wreck (GA) on the way to the munch.  I've had to miss a get together because it snowed in My little town (CA) for the first time in ten years.  I've had to skip munches due to fog, severe rain, personal crap, and probably a dozen other things if I sat here and thought about it real hard.

Tell Me how I wouldn't end up on your fake list?


ETA - When I wrote the above, I completely forgot about not updating My location, not once, but twice, while in the process of moving across the country.





KyttynTheMynx -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:31:21 PM)

You still havent stated how to judge whether or not someone is falsely rating people, and how to combat that?



pshornyguy -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:32:57 PM)

Karmastic:

Please explain as precisely as you can what the "penalty" would be?

When you answer, please keep the following facts in mind:

(1) Nobody even knows how many CM members would consult the list of fakes/liars

(2) Those people who DO consult the list probably have had bad experiences and, therefore, they just want to avoid (if possible) chatting with a fake or a liar.

(3) Consequently, the worst thing that would happen is that CM member #1 might not respond to a message by CM member #2 because CM member #2 has received multiple listings by several different people who have mentioned their experienes with dishonesty in CM member #2's behavior.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

it's a specious argument that having a bad rating is not a PENALTY.

and you again ignore that it's allowing a bunch of anon people to give another anon person a rating, which ultimately is mob rule. it's not the same thing as rating a restaurant, and open to more abuses, and it's value outweighs it's risks and it's weaknesses in being easy to avoid with new profiles.

ps edit - thank you for your ideas, and sticking up for them, even if they're misguided. and your rebuttals were entertaining, like rational matter colliding with irrational anti-matter.

GET YOUR POPCORN, FRESH HOT POPCORN HERE!




pshornyguy -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:35:55 PM)

No, I have addressed it Kyttyn.

The methodology would be EXACTLY what it is right now, namely, it would be entirely up to YOU to make your own decisions about how to proceed when you are contacted by, or when you wish to initiate contact with, somebody on the list.

The ONLY difference would be that you would have an information source to alert you to the possibility that the CM member on that list might be a fake or liar----so proceed accordingly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KyttynTheMynx

You still havent stated how to judge whether or not someone is falsely rating people, and how to combat that?




KyttynTheMynx -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:39:57 PM)

Ok. So if myself, and every other poster fabricated reasons to penalize you, would there be a way for you to clear your name?



pshornyguy -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:44:21 PM)

The only "censorship" I am proposing Killerangel, is allowing YOU to make your own decisions and evaluations about how to proceed with somebody who other people think may be a fake or a liar.

Neither I or any other single person would be "the arbiter" as you suggest. Instead, the list I propose is comparable to listings in other situations which report dishonest individuals and businesses.

For example: I'm sure that you know you can contact the Better Business Bureau in your community to ask whether or not there have been any adverse reports about businesses in your area.

Similarly, you can go online and see reports of adverse actions taken against medical professionals (doctors and nurses whose licenses have been suspended or revoked or who have been successfully sued for malpractice or otherwise disciplined).

The same concept is what I am proposing -- EXCEPT -- in my proposal there would be NO PENALTIES WHATSOEVER because it is just an informational list which can be totally ignored by you or any other CM member.

BUT, if you do decide to consult the list, what would happen?

You might discover somebody's profile name on the list by somebody who contacted you -- and, as a result of their listing, you might ask more detailed or probing questions in your messages in order to make sure that they are genuine. And if they do not provide you with credible answers -then you can simply decide to stop chatting with them (if that is your decision) -- and thus not waste your time. THAT'S IT! Nothing more!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Killerangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Master2811

I am totally on your side. It has nothing to do with preferences. It has to do with cleansing this site from people who do not belong here. Money scammers and such people.


Are you and the OP the arbitrators of the site to decide who belongs here and who does not? Get this through your head...some people WANT to be taken advantage of, it's a kink Sparky. To say that Joe Blow who wants to be wallet raped is not allowed to indulge in his kink because you don't want it to be so is not fair. Saying that manipulation should be outlawed, financial and otherwise, is not what every person on this site wants. Some people desire to be manipulated, it gets them off.

It has everything to do with preferences. The preferences that adults have and want to pursue. You are not the deciding factor on what preferences are legitimate and what preferences are not. Maybe some men come here to ogle the pics of nubile young money scammers and masturbate, who are you to say they can't? Financial slavery, and various permutations of BDSM connected with money, are a legit kink, get it through your head. Asking to cleanse a kink site of kink shows your ignorance as well as the OP's -who wants to decide which kink is ok and which is not. In his world people 'should' be looking for long term D/s relationships and nothing outside of that is legit, it's fake. It's not his call to make how people interpret D/s, and it's not your call to make what kinks people can indulge in or not.

The two of you are proposing censorship.




odysseyIndeed -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:45:56 PM)

It doesn't matter whether you outlaw it or not because once someone sees that the person is on the list it can color every interaction they have with them in a negative way whether they mean for it to or not. If you read that jamie111 was dishonest then somewhere in the back of your mind you are going to be analyzing his statements more thoroughly whether he actually deserves it or not.

I can tell you from personal experience that many people really dislike rejection. Even those who've invested next to no time in someone. I have told men after 2 messages that i wish them the best but i'm not interested and had them curse me out. I block them and they create(or use) other accounts to continue to be unkind. It can be even worse when someone has actually spent time chatting with you over several days and then is told you dont think it's going to work. Once you tell them you don't think it will work, some often start by asking why, then trying to convince you it will, then calling you fake for not continuing to try then start calling you rude names and then you block them and they again go to other accounts to bother you.
It may not be the nicest thing but it is sometimes the least confrontational way to stop chatting with someone, just fading away instead of leaving yourself open to the things i mentioned above.

What would prevent these same people to vindictively use those extra accounts they have to make up things about me? You said one report would not place you on the list but one person with five different accounts could say the same made up thing about the one they are angry with. That would be enough to get someone on the list when they did not deserve to be there.

You say the list would be to weed out people perceived to be dishonest but what I see it being is a venue for dishonest and sometimes vindictive people to mess with the lives of others. Just as some people might enjoy spending the day reading this thread(yes i read all of it), others have fun hacking web sites just to see if they can do it(as an example) and still others would find it amusing to set up some sock accounts with the sole purpose of getting people on that list, just to be mean, just out of boredom, just to see if it can be done, etc.

Also you say that it is a tool that could be used for checking up on someone you have a suspicion about, yet you also say that you want to use it so you won't waste time on those you consider to be fakes and liars and only focus on those you think are genuine. I believe, then, that you won't wait until something suspicious is done as that might be wasting time. I think instead you will go to that list first thing before you have much if any interaction with a person so again, subjectively, the list will be coloring one's perception of that person from the beginning. Doesn't seem right to me.

Sooo .. unless you can figure out away to effectively weed out anyone from false reporting then the list itself as a whole will be false and a part of the very thing you are trying to rid the site of. I just don't think there is a way it can be successfully done without innocent people being adversely affected.

(This was a fast reply)



Lockit -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:46:38 PM)


(3) Consequently, the worst thing that would happen is that CM member #1 might not respond to a message by CM member #2 because CM member #2 has received multiple listings by several different people who have mentioned their experienes with dishonesty in CM member #2's behavior.

If you don't see this as a penalty, then what is the reason for the list?

What if one of those people read the list and saw a couple liars posting about someone that wouldn't give them what they wanted and that person that read the list would have been a great fit for them? I've had people lie to me and about me. I'm sure I have pissed off more than a few. I would so be on that list without having told a lie, simply because there are liars lying about me because I didn't do what they wanted. What if I didn't get to meet someone that could have enhanced my life, while I enhanced theirs all because of someone elses lie? I would consider that a penalty of some sort. I am paying a price because someone else fell for the lie of a list that had no fair foundation or protections of said liars.

I was subject to a man that lied to me about most everything, but presented well. We could not work because of those lies. However, another dominant to this day mourns his loss... go figure. Some will accept a liar. Now, I didn't blacklist him, but he sure did me! He even posted and started threads filled with his lies. Some people read those lies and stepped away from me. I wasn't bothered by that because if they didn't know me well enough to gauge whether I would do those things... then oh well. No real loss. However, I could have been very upset as these lies were slanderous.

Sometimes you just have to deal with what is and you can't change things around you. All you can do is change yourself within those situations, if you need to. There isn't a foolproof way to do what you propose and I am sure it will never legitimately happen on any site. I can see all sorts of legal ramifications. It just won't work.

I would rather use my own detectors even if they are faulty from time to time, than the alternatives.



LadyPact -> RE: Fakes and Liars on CM (6/9/2012 3:47:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pshornyguy
You would not end up on my list because you are not consciously and deliberately misrepresenting yourself.

Furthermore, there is no pattern of dishonesty which would cause somebody to list you -- unless when asked a direct question, you deliberately lie to multiple different people???

I am not talking about minor discrepancies in age or weight. My weight has changed during the past 2-3 years and I have not always updated my profiles but if somebody ASKS ME, I would tell them my correct weight but, for example, suppose somebody asked you for your weight on April 30th and you said 150# but on May 17th you were asked again by that same person (and you forgot you had previously said 150#) and your new answer is 195# --- then wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that you were not being honest because nobody gains 45 pounds in 2 weeks?

I don't think you are correct in the above.  Not about the answer on the weight, but you have to start looking at some different angles.  Let's try again.

I've moved twice since I've had membership on this site.  This last time (CA to AK) was a drive, then a ferry, then more of a drive, then a stay in another city, then getting internet up in My new home.  My profile read that I was located in Paso Robles, CA that whole time.  So, is that a lie or is that not changing what My profile "tells" people?

The prior move (GA to CA) was the same with My location until I actually moved in.  During that move, I stopped for three days because it coincided with Thunder in the Mountains.  So, I went.  I had hoped to meet additional folks in Denver, but didn't get the chance.  Had I said I wanted to meet them?  Yep.  My plans changed when My other half said we could hit the convention.

I've owed one regular poster on this site a violet wand scene from four years ago.  He was in GA from Ohio and it rained cats and dogs the day I was supposed to go.  I'd call that backing out.  The car wreck could have been seen that way, too.  The person that I was on the way to pick up to attend that munch would have had every right (for a couple of hours, at least) to say that I was a no show. 

How does your "list" work for stuff like that?




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