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RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/1/2012 5:24:28 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		If are to be penalized even if we should earn only a dollar, but it is mostly uncollectible, but becomes collectible if the government owes you money, it sounds like it is going to come out of our social security when we retire after having paid little into social security to begin with. We all know how kind government is. I'm wondering if this law is government sanctioned harassment. Why because it targets those who can afford it least.

We live in a land where

Sexual harassment = harassment.

LOL

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/1/2012 5:46:51 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		The equation

Wealthy People = People.

is almighty dollar centric. What is it saying? It is saying your humanity is your economic worth. What makes it difficult to understand initially is that it regards truth as a continuous function, a spectrum. If you make say 10,000 dollars per year you are one percent of the man or woman who earns a million. Around the time of the American civil war they did this to the Negroes. They had the right to vote, but their vote was not equal.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/1/2012 5:58:08 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

I believe it was A. Lincoln who first warned of the dangers of the courts giving corporations equal standing in courts as individuals/citizens. His prediction this would destroy the Republic took longer than he thought, but is obviously about finished.


It is unclear to me how to interpret the equation that I wrote. I can think of two interpretations: Only wealthy people are people or all people are potentially wealthy.

Can you be more specific concerning what A. Lincoln said? What led him to this conclusion? How did he foresee it coming?


I'm guessing that Abraham Lincoln's observations must have derived from his observations of the carpetbaggers and how they raped the South.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/1/2012 5:59:14 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

In a country where glib passes for logic.


I think the bottom line is cons are going to go with histrionics and cry-wolf scare tactics.....along with an smart alicky-ignorance, over trying to understand the underlying problems or the details of the law.



I also don`t buy the concern for the poor and uninsured when it comes to the mandate.Bull shit.



These "thoughtful" folks don`t give a shit about them when they`re sick or need help.........now, they`re going to pretend to worry about their ablity to pay?


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/1/2012 6:00:34 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/1/2012 6:00:23 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I am posting an easier to read and understand link of the ACA. Then you can go back to thinking it out for yourself on this thread. (Note: It has nothing to do with drug addicts)

Here it is :)



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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/1/2012 9:05:45 PM   
BenevolentM


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Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I am posting an easier to read and understand link of the ACA. Then you can go back to thinking it out for yourself on this thread. (Note: It has nothing to do with drug addicts)

Here it is :)




I went to the page. "Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty." Newsflash, corporations have been for decades evading having to provide health insurance by not hiring full-time employees.

It is all about qualifications. In order to qualify for health insurance you must be employed full-time or you must not be older than 19, you must have HIV, you have got to be left handed and pregnant, etc.

(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/1/2012 9:57:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		"Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty."

Newsflash... thats not the only part of the bill... nor the inclusive part.

Honestly, I have read you whine and moan about something you dont understand.

You keep preaching talking points.

Why not go to the LAW itself and read the damn thing.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 12:20:37 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Just as I feared and worse, "Section 163 of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 would allow the government real-time access to a person's bank records - including direct access to bank accounts for electronic fund transfers." http://www.conservapedia.com/ObamaCare

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 12:35:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		CLAIM #7: Pg 59, lines 21-24 gives direct access to your banks accounts to compel you to pay any out-of-pocket or premium costs electronically without your previous consent.

This is not what the bill says. The purpose of this provision (Div A, Title I, Sec 163) is to make certain administrative simplifications that will develop standards for transactions between insurance companies and providers so providers can spend more of their time delivering care and less time haggling with insurance companies.

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2009/08/pdf/120healthcaremyths.pdf

Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

Barely True: Section 163 sets out goals for electronic health records. One of the goals is to include features that "enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation" between payment and billing. The legislative summary says the intent in the section is "to adopt standards for typical transactions" between insurance companies and health care providers. The legislation generically describes typical electronic banking transactions and does not outline any special access privileges.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/

Now, I suggest you go find the actual LAW and read it instead of conservative web sites that spends most of its time distorting facts.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 12:43:21 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I went to the page. "Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty." ...


The law is inconsistent. If you employ someone part-time, why isn't the business obligated to picking up part of the tab? Isn't working two part-time jobs 20 hours a week a piece equivalent to a full-time 40 hour a week job? Sounds discriminatory. Wait, I foresee another equation being served. People who work two jobs will be discriminated against. What right does the government have to discriminate against people with two jobs? Are people with two jobs a burden on society?

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 1:19:55 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Why are people worried about death panels? As I pointed out in my previous post the law is discriminatory. As such it is on the outset a death panel since it is legislating who receives and who does not receive medical insurance and thus access to medical care. People who hold down two jobs do not qualify.

Why must we worry about privacy? The law will likely be implemented in such a fashion that there will be a presumption of guilt, not innocence. Couple this with efforts to stream line information exchange and you get an extraordinary opportunity for abuse especially when you consider its grandeur.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 5:57:03 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		This guy needs a blog. Or a Twitter account.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 6:30:57 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I went to the page. "Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty." ...


The law is inconsistent. If you employ someone part-time, why isn't the business obligated to picking up part of the tab? Isn't working two part-time jobs 20 hours a week a piece equivalent to a full-time 40 hour a week job? Sounds discriminatory. Wait, I foresee another equation being served. People who work two jobs will be discriminated against. What right does the government have to discriminate against people with two jobs? Are people with two jobs a burden on society?



READ

THE

LAW

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 3:45:46 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

READ

THE

LAW


Is that an ObamaCare approved order? Will I be penalized if I don't? What percentage of my income will be taken if I fail to do so? It seems to me that this is what its advocates are settling on as their bulletproof counter argument. Are you saying that if I do so, I will be magically transformed? If I only truly understood it, I would be a supporter. Maybe the Care International Maitreya savior and world teacher has come and I would understand if only I read it! If you have a bulletproof counter argument, produce it.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 3:56:01 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		There is enough evidence surrounding the document that says all is not kosher for me to be suspicious. What evidence is there to support the notion that if I only read the document I would find enlightenment? To be fair to Obama the goal was universal health care and this is not it. This law is thought of as a stepping stone in the right direction. The idea is apparently to show the American people that such ideas, albeit corrupt versions of it, can work.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 4:21:20 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		It would help if you didnt use conservapedia or any site that gives you bad information on the wrong bill. BTW did you know that conservapedia only gave conservative newspaper weblinks as "PROOF"??
Or that the bill you were moaning about was not passed, it was rejected??back in 2009.
now why didn't conservapedia give you that information????
GASP

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(•_•)
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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 4:26:39 PM   
BenevolentM


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Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

... This law is thought of as a stepping stone in the right direction. The idea is apparently to show the American people that such ideas, albeit corrupt versions of it, can work.


That in itself is problematic. It is my understanding that the principle participant in the drafting of the law were the Democrats where the Republicans took a hands off approach. Then one must wonder why is the law a corrupt version of the law?

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 4:29:00 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		when you talk to yourself, its time you go back on hide, theres just no discussion worth it.
not even for the giggles.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 4:33:33 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

It would help if you didnt use conservapedia or any site that gives you bad information on the wrong bill. BTW did you know that conservapedia only gave conservative newspaper weblinks as "PROOF"??
Or that the bill you were moaning about was not passed, it was rejected??back in 2009.
now why didn't conservapedia give you that information????
GASP


The significance of the citation is that when I first brought the matter up I was unaware that anyone else was aware of the problem as well. You see I'm not playing partisan. I would love to see universal health care become a reality. What is worrisome is feasibility and implementation. I feel, that is inclined to believe, that universal health care is feasible and such a cause is a noble cause. Can a noble cause go bad? They sure can.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/2/2012 4:41:15 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The law is inconsistent. If you employ someone part-time, why isn't the business obligated to picking up part of the tab? Isn't working two part-time jobs 20 hours a week a piece equivalent to a full-time 40 hour a week job? Sounds discriminatory. Wait, I foresee another equation being served. People who work two jobs will be discriminated against. What right does the government have to discriminate against people with two jobs? Are people with two jobs a burden on society?


Good question. If someone works two part time jobs, instead of getting insurance through employment, they would buy a policy on one of the set up health insurance exchanges. If there's a large enough pool enrolled in the exchanges, the premiums may not be any higher than for full time employees that get health insurance through employment. Personally, I'd prefer not to have my health insurance tied to employment. What I'm more concerned about is Medicaid expansion since states can now choose not to participate. People with incomes of 133% FPL or less will make too little to qualify for the subsidized exchanges. That could be resolved by offering those people 100% subsidies, if only adjustments didn't have to go through Congress. As long as the Republican party of no has majority in the House, I'm not sure if anything can be done.


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 60
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