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RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/3/2012 4:37:05 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The Supreme Court may have reasoned that the corporations got as far as they did exploiting the American people because its government did not have an effective counter strategy. The government was playing fair, but the corporations weren't. It may have been a declaration that the gloves are now off and the government is now willing to fight fire with fire.


Unfortunately, this is not the only take that is possible. One is the court has simply gone along with the flow and was too cowardly to reverse the course. Another is that they did it once to us in the financial markets and fucked us in the ass and they are now attempting to do it again, through the back door so to speak. Why did the Republican party chose Mitt Romney if they were so much against ObamaCare? Is there reason to believe that our political system is rigged? Maybe ObamaCare is the lesser evil. Just think what the Republicans might invent.

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/3/2012 6:43:53 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		Here is something that provides some information on how ObamaCare may be implemented.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/07/03/these_state_exchanges_are_a_health_care_dmv

quote:

An individual can qualify for a state-run exchange if they earn less than 400% of the poverty level, which is $44,000 individually or $88,000 for a family of four. If you qualify to those thresholds, then you get 80% of your insurance and health care free.


One of the catches is your state need not participate. I doubt my state will. Another catch is 80% is not 100%. If you cannot afford it, who says you can afford the remaining 20%. It is like subsidizing the cost of a lamberti. If you subsidize 80% of the cost of a lamberti, it still doesn't mean I can afford a lamberti.

The law does seem to be needlessly difficult. Even the income tax laws seem more tolerable.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 6:42:56 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		I've worked on the problem money as information years ago and as such I can relate to it. This is something they discuss in the documentary film http://themoneyfix.org/. The fractional reserve system which is what our economic system is based and what ObamaCare is likely based on makes people neurotic. ObamaCare is clearly designed to make people anxious and they wonder why people might object to it. Our economic system as a whole is also designed to make us anxious, but it is something we are accustom to. ObamaCare, however, just continues this trend and instead of making it better, it makes it worse. The idea is that it is motivation, but we have enough motivation as it is.

ObamaCare is slavery because it insists that you participate in a system of slavery. The idea being of course is that if you whip the slaves they will work harder and thereby pull us out of the depression. I concede that health care sadly does have the potential to be a money pit and our economic paradigm is wrong. Dragging a stone into the desert need not produce beneficial results though it entails a great deal of labor.

ObamaCare is fundamentally disrespectful and it is that that makes it unconstitutional regardless of the recent opinion given by the Supreme Court. The U.S. government does not have the right to be disrespectful towards the American people. The Supreme Court is a joke. Congress is a joke and the Presidency is a joke. The Democratic party is a joke and the Republican party is a joke. We have no leadership.

I am for universal health care because it actually makes sense, but the way everyone is going about it does not make sense. It is dishonest in a way that makes it more serious than usual. For example, it actually attempts to deny our humanity. Come on. That's bullshit. We are better than this.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 7:03:50 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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Status: offline 		I`m blocking you.....

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 7:11:30 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Here is something that provides some information on how ObamaCare may be implemented.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/07/03/these_state_exchanges_are_a_health_care_dmv


Ya, let RUSH LIMBAUGH, who doesn't understand how the birth control pill works, explain the implementation of the Affordable Care Act

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 7:11:57 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The fractional reserve system ... makes people neurotic.


Why is that a problem? It does not encourage rational thought and sound financial decisions.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 7:22:46 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

... RUSH LIMBAUGH, ...


I do not especially like Rush Limbaugh, but I do feel that he performs an important role in the ecosystem and at this time I anticipate he will be performing a much needed function. Though I do not regard the Republicans to be sane, I do not regard the Democrats to be sane either. As far as I'm concerned, you are all nuts. None of you seem to think straight. Maybe they all have syphilis, too much whoring. The grid lock doesn't work, but the absence of grid lock doesn't work either and it is hard to say which is the lesser evil. The better policy may in fact be to drop kick ObamaCare and bury our heads in the sand.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 8:22:55 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		We have a government and economic system run by Harvard educated dumbasses.

Today is Independence Day. I offer these words in celebration of my right to protest.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 10:10:08 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		post 9 in another thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Obama
Souter
Bush
Romney
Gore Jr
Bernanke

Yep, lots of idiots graduated from Harvard.


This would help explain why they have been attempting to revive discredited economics. It is what they are familiar with. It might also explain why everything appears rigged, the collusion. They all received the same education. Essentially, they are all from the same cookie cutter.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 11:09:56 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Have you ever considered trying decaff?

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 11:11:05 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		Perhaps I'm not the most politically astute person in the world to be critical of both the Democrats and the Republicans and call them both crazy. As implementation is concerned my impression is that Romney may do a better job. I like the idea of vouchers. If the Republicans can get over their near pathological objection to taxes, perhaps some progress can be made.

There isn't a whole lot I can do at present. I can vote Republican. I can make my thoughts known. I can offer assistance to Republican candidates.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 12:03:33 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

We really shouldn't be in the business of denying medical care to begin with.



Thats an odd statement. Who or what "denies" health care to you or to anyone else? I mean, other than people whose job it is to care for themselves, and for those they choose to bring into this world. Is someone similarly denying you food, or water? Will you die if I dont personally provide for you? Is it my job to spoon feed you? Or whose job is it.

As a general rule, people should have to work for what they receive because when they are just given things they arent valued in the same way that things people have to earn are valued. In other words "free" things are taken for granted (because they ARE granted), and are treated as though they are worthless (or "worth LESS")

Its like that with most things. One example, if people were given free cars a lot of people would take them out and trash them. Drive it like you stole it, right? Why not? Its free, and theres an endless supply. However, automobiles that are earned are generally well cared for - even babied and pampered.

Case in point - leftists want to take highly skilled medical professions and literally cheapen them. How can one expect to enjoy state of the art physicians, nurses, technicians, facilities, equipment, drugs and so on at fire sale prices? Once those who the Dems call "freeloaders" rush the system for every hiccup, bruise and bellyache and government bureaucrats are paying the bills, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what will happen next.

Costs will necessarily be cut, and there is much on the chopping block. Just for one example, right now skilled nursing in the United States is a very rewarding profession, economically speaking. In Britain however, not so much... and you get what you (or your nanny governments whip-cracking, cost-cutting bureaucrats) pay for.







< Message edited by Sanity -- 7/4/2012 12:08:54 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 1:42:37 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Where are there state of the art physicians?  Not the USA.  Our healthcare is bested by the majority of the world.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 2:44:27 PM   
Sanity


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Ask any true leftist (yes, even on Independence day) and he or she will tell you, everything about America is practically third world

And the kicker is, they believe in that propaganda, too.

No mnot, there are no state of the art physicians anywhere to be found in the United States...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Where are there state of the art physicians?  Not the USA.  Our healthcare is bested by the majority of the world.



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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 2:55:04 PM   
BenevolentM


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Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		A better tutorial is
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/money-as-debt-3-evolution-beyond-money/

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 3:24:04 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



Ask any true leftist (yes, even on Independence day) and he or she will tell you, everything about America is practically third world

And the kicker is, they believe in that propaganda, too.

No mnot, there are no state of the art physicians anywhere to be found in the United States...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Where are there state of the art physicians?  Not the USA.  Our healthcare is bested by the majority of the world.




Of course there is.. just as there is in other countries. This isnt about the physicians or the quality of....

Reading is fundamental...

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/advocacy/current-topics-advocacy/affordable-care-act/ama-comments-on-aca-regulations.page

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/4/2012 9:35:09 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

Case in point - leftists want to take highly skilled medical professions and literally cheapen them. How can one expect to enjoy state of the art physicians, nurses, technicians, facilities, equipment, drugs and so on at fire sale prices? Once those who the Dems call "freeloaders" rush the system for every hiccup, bruise and bellyache and government bureaucrats are paying the bills, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what will happen next


There's no need to speculate at all. One can study what happens to medical professionals' incomes in other countries that have universal schemes. That way one will find that the reality is very different to Sanity's guess (nothing new about that is there?).

Good luck in finding a impoverished doctor or specialist just about anywhere in the democratic world. Please let me know when you do. I'm not expecting to hear from you soon, like in the next decade or two. Though it is nice a change to see someone from the far Right - usually so intent on union busting and driving down the cost of labour (ie people's wages) to boost their fav billionaire's profits - shed some crocodile tears about the living standards of health professionals.

It would be good to see this concern extended to all working people - but that would probably be venturing too far left for poor Sanity, way outside his comfort zone! For one, I'd rather not be around when Sanity discovers the gap between his ideology and reality is wider than the Pacific Ocean.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 2:00:49 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		I didn't have time to respond earlier. It was not my intention to be a sarcastic as tweakabelle. Her closing statement in response to Sanity was:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

... the gap between his ideology and reality is wider than the Pacific Ocean.


What tweakabelle wrote summarizes what I intended to say, however. We already have socialized medicine, an albeit cockeyed form of socialized medicine that consists of a complex web of legal relationships. You are mandated to purchase insurance for all practical purposes in many instances in order to survive a law suit, especially if you are a business, that has a medical component. Automobile insurance is an example. Someone might slip and fall in your place of business, etc. Instead of medical professionals, the money ends up in the hands of attorneys, making some not just wealthy, but very wealthy. Insurance companies do regulate us much like the government does. The problem stems from You Can't Handle the Truth Syndrome. When you consider what we already pay in premiums to insurance companies because the government in effect mandated it years ago, you will see that you are already taxed up the ass. Because you are getting it through the back door, you may be getting raped. By exposing the rapist you may find relief.

It seems to me that ObamaCare would have come out better if the Democrats had acknowledged that it was a tax and sold it that way. It was delusional to believe that it wasn't a tax. I feel that it could have been sold as a tax. It might not be such a bad idea to be taxed during a depression because the taxes would keep the money flowing which is what the gold bugs don't want to see happen. The gold bugs want the economy to fail and the flow of money to stop because that is the scenario where they will come out on top. If the economy improves, "They are fucked." because they are betting against America.

One of the problems is that we are in a depression. The penalty I suspect may end up being taken out of our social security. I fail to see why it wouldn't. I've already spoken of this. The problem is if something is not done now it may be moot since social security by that time might not be around.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 2:50:53 AM   
BenevolentM


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Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Further analysis on denial of our humanity. The continuous functions utilized by economists deny our humanity. In order to uphold our humanity a counter current is necessary. I've discussed this before how a positive can look like a negative and a negative a positive. Universal health care is a counter current. We may have had to go through the zero which accounts for the dehumanizing equation wealthy people = people. Economic systems enslave us. In other words, you have to purposefully uphold your humanity. Economic systems do not model us. We must intentionally place ourselves in the equation. This is not a thing that happens by itself. This is something that universal health care does. Universal health care formally puts us in the equation. The resulting equation has to be partially discontinuous, however. That may be at the heart of my objection to ObamaCare. It fails to acknowledge that the resulting equation has to be partially discontinuous. In other words the additions and the subtractions when taken together should NOT equal zero. This would be objectionable to those who wish to maximize economic throughput since our humanity would be regarded as an inefficiency. These continuous functions utilized by economists mess with our humanity. For example, you are worth what you earn. This relationship is intrinsically dehumanizing. The relationship in order to be truthful must be nonlinear. The relationship is likely logarithmic. This accounts for why the wealthy are asked to pay a higher percentage in taxes compared to the poor. Their value to the human community is not proportional.

< Message edited by BenevolentM -- 7/5/2012 2:52:58 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 4:03:00 AM   
BenevolentM


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Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		With respect to an economic system, human beings are a foreign body, a contaminate. Either we purposely place ourselves and others in the equation because our individual sensibilities are level-headed or we muck up the machinery to insert ourselves into the machine as a design feature. Individual sensibilities are only partially level-headed, however. Denial of our humanity and denial of our level-headedness are not the same. The level-headedness model is outwardly more elegant because it side steps the foreign body problem, but only according to appearances. You cannot deny the level-headedness model entirely either since that would deny our humanity. There is some relationship between our level-headedness and our humanity. Hence, a reasponsible architecture accounts for both. In other words, we are beings with and without free will.

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Profile   Post #: 100
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