Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 4:07:24 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

We really shouldn't be in the business of denying medical care to begin with.



Thats an odd statement. Who or what "denies" health care to you or to anyone else? I mean, other than people whose job it is to care for themselves, and for those they choose to bring into this world. Is someone similarly denying you food, or water? Will you die if I dont personally provide for you? Is it my job to spoon feed you? Or whose job is it.

As a general rule, people should have to work for what they receive because when they are just given things they arent valued in the same way that things people have to earn are valued. In other words "free" things are taken for granted (because they ARE granted), and are treated as though they are worthless (or "worth LESS")

Its like that with most things. One example, if people were given free cars a lot of people would take them out and trash them. Drive it like you stole it, right? Why not? Its free, and theres an endless supply. However, automobiles that are earned are generally well cared for - even babied and pampered.

Case in point - leftists want to take highly skilled medical professions and literally cheapen them. How can one expect to enjoy state of the art physicians, nurses, technicians, facilities, equipment, drugs and so on at fire sale prices? Once those who the Dems call "freeloaders" rush the system for every hiccup, bruise and bellyache and government bureaucrats are paying the bills, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what will happen next.

Costs will necessarily be cut, and there is much on the chopping block. Just for one example, right now skilled nursing in the United States is a very rewarding profession, economically speaking. In Britain however, not so much... and you get what you (or your nanny governments whip-cracking, cost-cutting bureaucrats) pay for.









Sanity, the ACA isn't telling physicians what to charge, no one has asked them to take less pay from their practice.
In actuality, with the mandate, they will actually GET PAID, as opposed to having to pay have large collection agencies
to collect from those who don't pay.
Those of us who do have insurance already pay for the uninsured,in the ever rising costs of our own health insurance,
local taxes to pay for public hospitals, rising local taxes to bail them out as they fail due to lack of payment. Most medical
practices are well versed in what and how Medicare amd Medicaid pay, and how to get paid, I haven't seen many Dr.s
having fire sales to get rid of their Mercedes.


_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 4:46:20 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		I came by a Frontline documentary film, think PBS, on ObamaCare at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyP2K5QHOI0. Just because it is Frontline tells me it is worth watching.

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 5:16:21 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		The documentary helped to diminish my concerns about Obama. He understands. The Supreme Court perhaps understood the difficulty Obama had to get anything past and was sympathetic choosing to ignore the law's defects realizing that our government is broken and this may be as good as it is going to get.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 5:27:43 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		The documentary has helped me better understand why the Supreme Court was so soft towards Obama. The Supreme Court is of the opinion that our government is broken and Obama brought hope.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 6:13:12 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The documentary has helped me better understand why the Supreme Court was so soft towards Obama. The Supreme Court is of the opinion that our government is broken and Obama brought hope.



Seems a bit unbelievable, Justices tend to be more practical, pragmatic, and rooted in their lessons in Law. I am certain that empathy might come into decisions by courts hearing tort or criminal law, but not in matters of the Constitution.

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 6:39:04 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The documentary has helped me better understand why the Supreme Court was so soft towards Obama. The Supreme Court is of the opinion that our government is broken and Obama brought hope.


Seems a bit unbelievable, Justices tend to be more practical, pragmatic, and rooted in their lessons in Law. I am certain that empathy might come into decisions by courts hearing tort or criminal law, but not in matters of the Constitution.


Ordinarily, I think you are probably right unless special circumstances existed. If the government was in reasonably good working order, what you wrote wound be reasonable.

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 6:18:02 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		I found a number of interesting posts in the A few points about Healthcare in the US thread. post 15 says:

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Let me see if I understand you, if you are poor and cannot afford health care, you are not to do anything like go to the ER or a doctor.

That sure sounds like the typical republican idea that the poor or lower middle class that dont have health insurance dont need medical care.


If you watch the documentary concerning the Frontline documentary on ObamaCare you may come to realize that ObamaCare is not ObamaCare. Yes, it does sound like a "typical Republican idea". The Republicans I fear are exploiting the American people and like pure evil are manipulating us into believing they are the good guy. ObamaCare is as Obama put it "A step in the right direction." He was acknowledging it was the best that could be done given the circumstances. If it is foul, our government is foul.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 6:52:58 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		In further response to Sanity. Can what you said really be denied? The problem is your argument is inductively weak. Your argument relies on rules of thumb. In some situations those rules of thumb will be applicable, but not in others. Hence, you really haven't proven your case. For instance in post 92 you wrote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

As a general rule, people should have to work for what they receive because when they are just given things they arent valued in the same way that things people have to earn are valued. In other words "free" things are taken for granted (because they ARE granted), and are treated as though they are worthless (or "worth LESS")


Like you said, "As a general rule". Your use of the word general, however, is idiomatic. You don't actually mean general though you may have thought you meant general. What you meant was "As a rule of thumb".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Its like that with most things. One example, if people were given free cars a lot of people would take them out and trash them. Drive it like you stole it, right? Why not? Its free, and theres an endless supply. However, automobiles that are earned are generally well cared for - even babied and pampered.


My impression is that in general this is not true. Fleet cares are often the cares that are cared for -- get their oil changes when needed for example -- because there is a bureaucracy and sufficient capital to tend to these details. The individuals who drive these cars can be abusive for the aforementioned reason, but the organization that owns these cars are often dutiful. There is no guarantee when buying a used car from a private owner that what you wrote is true. It will be true for some private car owners and not true for others. With private car owners it is a mixed bag. Abusive people are abusive and thoughtful people are thoughtful.

I recall a study concerning happiness where they found that the most important predictor of happiness was conscientiousness. The relationship between punishment and results is not proportional unless the individual receiving the punishment is conscientious. You are wasting your time if they are not. A conscientious individual will get the message, a doofus won't. How does corporate American cope? For the most part they ignore it as a cost of doing business. Some people who drive their rent-a-car will be more thoughtful than others. There isn't much you can do about it, but what you can do is tend to regular maintenance.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 7:10:16 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		What does a doofus say? A doofus will say I have the right to drive down the middle of the road 'cuz I pay taxes. Wrong. You have the right to drive down the right side of the road 'cuz you pay taxes.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 7:14:36 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Incidentally, I suspect that a person's politics is a form of personality disorder because it results in the same sorts of systematic errors in reasoning that are indicative of a personality disorder; hence, we should not make as much ado about politics as we do. What we struggle against are not Democrats and Republicans, but insanity.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 7:49:15 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

If it is foul, our government is foul.


This begs a question. Is this the sort of government we want? The Republicans are calling for a change in government, but as it turns out they were the white man in the wood pile as the saying goes.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 7:58:01 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		This reminds me of a quote from President Abraham Lincoln, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."(1)

(1) http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Abraham_Lincoln/

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 8:29:39 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Incidentally, I suspect that a person's politics is a form of personality disorder because it results in the same sorts of systematic errors in reasoning that are indicative of a personality disorder; hence, we should not make as much ado about politics as we do. What we struggle against are not Democrats and Republicans, but insanity.


You seem seriously conflicted.
You often condemn both sides, but primarily state you support and tend to vote Republican.
You don't appear to even be a Moderate.

I also blame both sides, but I vote Democratic, how can you condemn and yet support the status quo?

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/5/2012 8:31:52 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 9:17:25 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

You often condemn both sides, but primarily state you support and tend to vote Republican. ... how can you condemn and yet support the status quo?


'Cuz I think like a Republican. If Obama can be thought of as a modern day equivalent of Abraham Lincoln, it might not be such a bad thing to be labeled a Republican 'cuz Abraham Lincoln is a giant. Abraham Lincoln belonged to the party of old, however.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 9:24:08 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

You often condemn both sides, but primarily state you support and tend to vote Republican. ... how can you condemn and yet support the status quo?


'Cuz I think like a Republican. If Obama can be thought of as a modern day equivalent of Abraham Lincoln, it might not be such a bad thing to be labeled a Republican 'cuz Abraham Lincoln is a giant. Abraham Lincoln belonged to the party of old, however.


Thanks for responding!
At least you admit to supporting the status quo.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/5/2012 9:25:17 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/5/2012 9:53:04 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

At least you admit to supporting the status quo.


This time around, this Presidential election, I'm voting for Obama.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/6/2012 12:45:55 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:


Do not assume anything Obi-Wan. Clear your mind must be if you are to discover the real villains behind this plot.


Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121765/quotes?qt=qt0414921

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/6/2012 12:49:04 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Jango Fett

I'm just a simple man, trying to make my way in the universe.


Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121765/quotes?qt=qt0414899

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/6/2012 1:15:06 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		For those who cannot figure out what point I'm making, it is in our popular culture and something we all know to be true. Appearances can be deceiving.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/6/2012 12:18:11 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Am I being polyanish? It is clear the courts for more than a decade has abandoned the idea that law has an obligation to adhere to any principles. The recent Supreme Court decisions smack of this. It is plain that according to our courts the constitution for good or evil is an historically significant document and nothing more. The Supreme Court is just another branch of government that does whatever it feels is best. Congressmen deliberate, judges deliberate, no difference. Notice how we stopped making amendments to the constitution. Why did we stop? Did it stop because the government wanted to preserve its integrity or did it stop because it stopped acknowledging it as relevant.

A license is needed to drive, do I need a license to live? The Supreme Court was able to overlook these difficulties because it no longer of the opinion that law has to make sense or adhere to any principles.

The problem for me is I do not feel that the Republican party has been part of the solution. It has been part of the problem. The Republican party went along with it. For example, they objected to the Supreme Court decision on the Ten Commands, but the shift in thinking went a lot further than this. They don't talk about this and they have wallowed in it like pigs. They have passed defective laws that respect nothing. They have been more than happy to participate. They make an issue over the Ten Commandments because it is a way to win votes. If they were sincere they would have pursued the heart of the matter, a lack of standards of any sort, religious or secular.

It is possible that Obama might actually be sincere. The free market extremists are not interested in people. They are only interested in wealthy people because only wealthy people are people.

It is plausible that the Supreme Court is protesting and giving back to the government the same sort of crap it has been handed. The court may be of the opinion that law has no obligation to adhere to any standards because that is what it has been handed year after year, laws that do not respect any standards. This makes sense because the Supreme Court does not have the sort of freedom of speech that the other branches of government enjoy.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094