RE: Life out there? (Full Version)

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Nosathro -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 12:10:47 AM)

I have always held the belief we are not alone.



littlewonder -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 12:40:55 AM)

Again, wasn't expecting you to change your mind and wasn't trying to lol. Like I said, just thought it an interesting webpage just like I may tell someone about a book I find interesting even though I know it's not the genre they like. It's not for anyone to bicker about or try to change their mind lol. It's just to share information....you know, casual talk about things you like or don't like just like you may do at a party or sitting over a drink with your friend.



ShoreBound149 -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 3:55:03 AM)

Heh...

[image]local://upfiles/833136/E00370CA82EA4544A6B0F40FBE5E409C.jpg[/image]



Moonhead -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 4:06:13 AM)

FR:
It's completely irrelevant whether there is or isn't any other life out there, as getting it here would face pretty severe problems.



Musicmystery -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 5:55:53 AM)

quote:

the Mayans were also into human sacrifice, which I'd like to think a far more technologically advanced civilization would have frowned on.


We sacrifice humans all the time, just to different gods today. Liberty, freedom, justice, pride, honor, nationalism--hundreds of thousands a year.



TheHeretic -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 6:00:42 AM)

Different sorts of rituals, Muse, but after what it took for you see that understanding physics implies that physics are understood, explaining this may take more time than is really available.



jlf1961 -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 6:11:12 AM)

Unless an extraterrestrial civilization developed a moral code that actually is against warfare, persecution, slavery etc, which is possible, the odds are that any civilization out there will look at us they way we look at ants, basically something to squash.

There may be a race out there like the Vulcans from star trek, and they may find us first. But with the luck the human race has, it will be the klingons that find us first and then we will be totally screwed.



Musicmystery -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 6:17:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Different sorts of rituals, Muse, but after what it took for you see that understanding physics implies that physics are understood, explaining this may take more time than is really available.

Different only because we're inside it and see it as something other than what it objectively is.



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 8:06:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

If we buy the theory that the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite number of opportunities for extraterrestrial life. it's easy to prove the existence of such life - a single example would suffice. I have no clue how to DISprove the existence of such life - even if all known places in the universe did not produce it, there would still be UNknown places, an infinite number of them, that could host such life.


The Universe is infinite? By what definition? If our Universe is expanding there must be a leading edge in all directions. That edge was established presumably in the first nanosecond of the Big Bang. If you think on it that suggests our Universe is finite but expanding. A little confusing. Is it infinitely expanding or will it eventually run out of gas (dark energy)?

Also, to your second point, it isn't easy to prove the existence of angels - a single example would suffice. They may be hiding anywhere.

What is this need for extraterrestrial life? Are we lonely? Or are we disatisfied and feel limited by the Abrahamic religions? Have we finally outgrown the Bible?

Just wondering . . . not wedded to any of the above and welcome other viewpoints.



mnottertail -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 8:19:38 AM)

The Universe is infinite? By what definition? If our Universe is expanding there must be a leading edge in all directions. That edge was established presumably in the first nanosecond of the Big Bang. If you think on it that suggests our Universe is finite but expanding. A little confusing. Is it infinitely expanding or will it eventually run out of gas (dark energy)?

It (the outer envelope) could have been made by a previous big bang.

Thats how I am playing the game, at any rate, big bang, big crunch, big bang. ad infinitum.  That's how god plays dice, in the fullness of time, he plays every game possible.   



kdsub -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 8:54:03 AM)

Unless I am mistaken there is no edge of expansion... all matter is moving away from all other matter in all directions at an accelerating rate. This is very hard for me to grasp… where is the cut off in size for this expansion.

Does this mean the earth is also moving away from the sun?… Does this mean all atoms that have mass are moving away form each other which would mean our very bodies are expanding in size?

Weird stuff with soooo much speculation that to say anything with certainty is pure foolishness.

Butch



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 8:59:17 AM)

quote:

It (the outer envelope) could have been made by a previous big bang.

Thats how I am playing the game, at any rate, big bang, big crunch, big bang. ad infinitum. That's how god plays dice, in the fullness of time, he plays every game possible.


Yeah, I know, string theory and multiverse theory at the moment seem to trump big bang ex nihilo, although all boggle the mind. The question implicit in this thread is did god play the game more than once. The fact there are large numbers of opportunities does not mean the dice were rolled more than once or, for atheists, the accident occurred in more than one place. It seems to me to be wishful thinking and I wonder why. Are we afraid of being alone in the Universe? Does it make god bigger than before? And what's the motivation for these folks who wish to believe in extraterrestrial demi-gods who came here long ago and planted the seed of humankind? Are they hedging between the 'special creation' by the Judeo-Christian god vs the possible accidental abiogenesis, where they can't accept either?



mnottertail -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 9:01:17 AM)

I am at the god with no teeth joke.   That same thing that we are trying for uniquenss in the universe is more at the god end.

This has all been done before ad nauseam.  

but I once wrote why the sky is black at night, there is something like a pressure of fingers sliding in the glove that precedes our expansion into the void.



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 9:03:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Unless I am mistaken there is no edge of expansion... all matter is moving away from all other matter in all directions at an accelerating rate. This is very hard for me to grasp… where is the cut off in size for this expansion.

Does this mean the earth is also moving away from the sun?… Does this mean all atoms that have mass are moving away form each other which would mean our very bodies are expanding in size?

Weird stuff with soooo much speculation that to say anything with certainty is pure foolishness.

Butch


From what I understand, Butch, the earth is pretty well fixed in its orbit for the time being and there is no spectral evidence to show otherwise. The expanding universe comes from observations of the doppler shift in the red range of the light spectrum we gather from distant galaxies. It is weird and challenges our world view, I agree.



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 9:08:32 AM)

quote:

That same thing that we are trying for uniquenss in the universe is more at the god end.


But people have given up trying for uniqueness, no?

quote:

but I once wrote why the sky is black at night, there is something like a pressure of fingers sliding in the glove that precedes our expansion into the void.


So, are you saying that the expanding universe is creating its own void into which it is expanding?



mnottertail -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 9:09:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Unless I am mistaken there is no edge of expansion... all matter is moving away from all other matter in all directions at an accelerating rate. This is very hard for me to grasp… where is the cut off in size for this expansion.

Butch


Well it does have to reflect back on us, imagine if every light particle just floated outside the universe to somewhere forever and ever.

It would be a Malthusian place indeed, and there would, at the speed of light, soon be no weight (actually mass though) to hold this bitch together, (moon: hit the ironicator) and thats about how that would work for us.  



jlf1961 -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 9:18:44 AM)

Actually, under the theory of an expanding universe, the Universe has a shape and an edge, since the universe encompasses all of space time, as we know it.

Therefore, the Universe is finite, although constantly expanding.



mnottertail -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 9:32:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

That same thing that we are trying for uniquenss in the universe is more at the god end.


But people have given up trying for uniqueness, no?

quote:

but I once wrote why the sky is black at night, there is something like a pressure of fingers sliding in the glove that precedes our expansion into the void.


So, are you saying that the expanding universe is creating its own void into which it is expanding?


Not at all, but something exists in the void it is not anything other than the without of our universe, (it may be we are pushing things into it, I don't know) it is not empty, it is not full,   irrifutable fact:  the sky is dark at night, no violent atomic cataclysms at the edge of the universe. 



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 9:41:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

That same thing that we are trying for uniquenss in the universe is more at the god end.


But people have given up trying for uniqueness, no?

quote:

but I once wrote why the sky is black at night, there is something like a pressure of fingers sliding in the glove that precedes our expansion into the void.


So, are you saying that the expanding universe is creating its own void into which it is expanding?


Not at all, but something exists in the void it is not anything other than the without of our universe, (it may be we are pushing things into it, I don't know) it is not empty, it is not full,   irrifutable fact:  the sky is dark at night, no violent atomic cataclysms at the edge of the universe. 


Okay, there is more to this that I wish to examine but I don't want to get way off topic here. So, back to extraterrestrial life. I doubt it. But I said that before [:)]



mnottertail -> RE: Life out there? (7/2/2012 9:48:11 AM)

I say there is, in the vast number of galaxies, in the vast number of earth like places in those galaxies, there have to be a vast number of earthlike humans.  And there has to be a vast number of those tapeworms living in sulfuric acid near oceanfloor vents creatures and god knows what else.

What is known of physics seems to operate everywhere the same in our universe. 



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