RE: Life out there? (Full Version)

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Rule -> RE: Life out there? (7/3/2012 2:29:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Nah, breakfast in bed.

lol



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Life out there? (7/3/2012 4:16:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

That's true, Vince, but our ability to detect such planets is still very much in its infancy. The theory may be dead on, in terms of intelligent life that we might somehow find, but that really wasn't my question, anyway.

There's no need to swap apple pie recipes with them. It's just difficult to look up into a night sky not polluted by artificial light, and think that all that, is just for us to look at.


I've been developing an antigrav machine (just to show all you fucking loser doubters) and when I figure out where I put the "down" button....I'll be more than happy to show you all how far science has progressed.



TheHeretic -> RE: Life out there? (7/3/2012 4:42:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I've been developing an antigrav machine (just to show all you fucking loser doubters) and when I figure out where I put the "down" button....



LOL. I see where that could be a pickle... [:D]

I Googled up the official count of known planets in the universe. 702, as of Nov. 18, 2011. At one in 10,000 for intelligent life (according to Vince's earlier link), the proof-based odds are that we are alone, and those who need to believe that we are special, and matter, can cling to that.

I'm not buying it.



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 5:16:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no, there actually were no problems, they saw something and then figured out what would take to work it out and make it right, since the previous explanations didnt cut it.


Come on now! There were on going controverisies. Bohr and Einstein famously had a series of heated debates. How can you say there were no problems? It was a new science.

quote:

the problem would be (if you must):  are we alone, or is civilization an abberation in the universe?

but then of course, why?  


*shrugs* Why not? Either a unique accident or a divine creation. Take your choice. But you cannot apply probability of recurrence to a singular event unless you wish to begin your calculations with one/infinity, and that equals zero.



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 5:23:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I've been developing an antigrav machine (just to show all you fucking loser doubters) and when I figure out where I put the "down" button....



LOL. I see where that could be a pickle... [:D]

I Googled up the official count of known planets in the universe. 702, as of Nov. 18, 2011. At one in 10,000 for intelligent life (according to Vince's earlier link), the proof-based odds are that we are alone, and those who need to believe that we are special, and matter, can cling to that.

I'm not buying it.



[:D] I don't think we are special. The planet can get along just as well without harboring life. I don't see where Life contributes anything to the Universe.



Moonhead -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 5:26:14 AM)

I always liked Bill Hicks' line about a "virus with shoes", myself.



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 5:35:52 AM)

This: “I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.” [:D]



TheHeretic -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 10:22:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.” [:D]


I prefer to use the metaphor of an evolved electrified soup, Vince, but if we aren't anything special, then I'm curious to know why you would think we are an unique development.



kdsub -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 12:07:46 PM)

quote:

I don't see where Life contributes anything to the Universe.


On a philosophical level without life to observe, quantify, and experience the universe it would not exist.

I’ve stated this position before without much agreement on CM but to me it is just common sense. If there were nothing aware… anywhere… in the universe no matter how insignificant then the laws of physics…the existence of matter and energy and their interactions could not be said to exist because there would be nothing to observe and be aware of it. Have we not discovered that observation by a living creature is necessary for some interactions on the quantum level?

Time…distance…matter …energy…etc are only for the living and only the living can observe and quantify. This very act of observing creates the universe and validates the laws of physics as we discover them.

So to me life is paramount in the universe…one cannot exist without the other.

Butch



Marini -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 1:29:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I don't see where Life contributes anything to the Universe.


On a philosophical level without life to observe, quantify, and experience the universe it would not exist.

I’ve stated this position before without much agreement on CM but to me it is just common sense. If there were nothing aware… anywhere… in the universe no matter how insignificant then the laws of physics…the existence of matter and energy and their interactions could not be said to exist because there would be nothing to observe and be aware of it. Have we not discovered that observation by a living creature is necessary for some interactions on the quantum level?

Time…distance…matter …energy…etc are only for the living and only the living can observe and quantify. This very act of observing creates the universe and validates the laws of physics as we discover them.

So to me life is paramount in the universe…one cannot exist without the other.

Butch


Thanks for giving us something to think about.
Life is paramount in the universe...one cannot exist without the other.
Deep.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 1:30:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thanks for giving us something to think about.
Life is paramount in the universe...one cannot exist without the other.
Deep.

Maybe life created our universe. Maybe that's where we're headed ourselves.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 3:48:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I don't see where Life contributes anything to the Universe.


On a philosophical level without life to observe, quantify, and experience the universe it would not exist.

I’ve stated this position before without much agreement on CM but to me it is just common sense. If there were nothing aware… anywhere… in the universe no matter how insignificant then the laws of physics…the existence of matter and energy and their interactions could not be said to exist because there would be nothing to observe and be aware of it. Have we not discovered that observation by a living creature is necessary for some interactions on the quantum level?

Time…distance…matter …energy…etc are only for the living and only the living can observe and quantify. This very act of observing creates the universe and validates the laws of physics as we discover them.

So to me life is paramount in the universe…one cannot exist without the other.

Butch


Reminds me of an old joke...

If a tree fell in the forest in front of Hellen Keller...did it really fall?



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 3:49:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thanks for giving us something to think about.
Life is paramount in the universe...one cannot exist without the other.
Deep.

Maybe life created our universe. Maybe that's where we're headed ourselves.


My personal belief is, Whamo created the Universe, and our only purpose here is to chase the Frisbee.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Life out there? (7/4/2012 3:52:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.


Whoever said Right Wing talk radio is the opiate of the masses, never tried to eat 3 radios.



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/5/2012 4:17:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.” [:D]


I prefer to use the metaphor of an evolved electrified soup, Vince, but if we aren't anything special, then I'm curious to know why you would think we are an unique development.



I am comfortable with the electrified soup metaphor, Rich, in all its varieties and given that much of it sloshes about in the bowl. I see no contradiction in unique development as being a one off accident. I am open to the possibility the accident happened elsewhere but not the probability because we only have one example and it is illogical to extrapolate or apply the laws of probability to a one off.



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/5/2012 4:30:34 AM)

quote:

Time…distance…matter …energy…etc are only for the living and only the living can observe and quantify. This very act of observing creates the universe and validates the laws of physics as we discover them.

So to me life is paramount in the universe…one cannot exist without the other.


But, Butch, the Universe existed a dozen billion years before life existed and will be here billions of years after life is extinguished, I think. We are an unessential subset of matter. Intruders. Undocumented aliens. [:D]

Additionally, only one species of all those who ever existed has quantified and validated the laws of physics. Granted, a remarkable and admirable accomplishment but it does not make us gods.

Yours is the old "if a tree falls in the forest . . ." proposition taken to a grander level. You only imagine the Universe would not exist without our perception. The tree still falls. The sound waves still compress the air without a witness.

Paramount? Only in our own minds, imho.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Life out there? (7/5/2012 8:41:08 AM)

There are those who have been proclaiming that the light speed limit will never be broken and, therefore, any organism would have to have a lifespan of thousands or millions of years to do any significant travelling.
Who is to say that intelligent life must be biological?
As a species, we may be nearing the so-called 'singularity' where man and machine merge as one. That would effectively grant immortality as long as the machine kept operating and if it were intelligent enough to be self replicating.....................



vincentML -> RE: Life out there? (7/5/2012 9:32:52 AM)

quote:

Who is to say that intelligent life must be biological?


Well, certainly a theological paradox to begin with, and an inherent contradiction of terms. How could life be anything but biological? And would God sacrifice his beloved son for a machine?

Seriously, Hill, a literal deus ex machina. A heart transplant here and a liver transplant there doesn't render humankind close to falling into the 'singularity' you envision, does it?



Hillwilliam -> RE: Life out there? (7/5/2012 9:37:23 AM)

The definition of life: "animate entities undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations."

Are you saying that a machine containing the consciousness of a formerly biological entity couldn't qualify?

As for your theological paradox, you are assuming the existence of God.



mnottertail -> RE: Life out there? (7/5/2012 9:37:57 AM)

http://thetechjournal.com/science/nasa-discovers-arsenic-born-organisms.xhtml

Thats right folks, we got em right here!!! C'mon down, its positively raining non-dna (therefore biological sort of fuzzy) organisms in here!!!!!



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