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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:04:11 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ever notice that the bigger the cities, the further left they lean

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

please provide proof of your assertions that most schools are in left leaning districts?



I asked for your proof, not your sidestep tango

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:11:50 PM   
servantforuse


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These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate. 1/ Detroit. 2/Buffalo. 3/Cinncinati. 4/Cleveland. 5/Miami. 6/St.Louis. 7/ElPaso. 8/Milwaukee. 9/Philadelphia and 10/ Newark...All have one thing in common. A democrat as mayor..

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:20:08 PM   
Lucylastic


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I asked for proof, from Sanity, and that isn't proof, its your figures, but taken from where? Never mind tho, Poverty is not the subject... education is, education against other countries. Try being forthcoming with some actual "relevant" information
I cannot make it any plainer.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:23:18 PM   
servantforuse


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The poorer school districts have the lowest test scores. It is all relevant. When you look at that list of cities do you really need proof from Sanity ?

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:27:13 PM   
subrob1967


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100 worst school districts in the US according to Neighborhood Scout.

Worst school district according to ABC

Worst School Graduation Rates according to Teaching Community

America's worst colleges according to Salon

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:31:40 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

This is my opinion only, as an employee of a school district.

Parents. Parenting is a lost art in many places. You can not take a child who has never been taught anything in the first five years of their life, and expect them to catch up. There are kids who start school and can not count to 10, and do not even know colors and shapes. Stuff that could be learned by plopping them down in front of Sesame Street, even if you do not want to spend time with them your self.

Add to that all the parents that believe their child can do no wrong, and will come to raise holy hell about any small thing they get a call about, more young single parents who have not a clue, because they also come from a single parent who did not have a clue, and we are fucked.

I agree. There are three major differences between now and when I was in 1-12.
More levels of bueracracy, teachers spend far more time filling out paperwork, all of the teachers I know says this is the main difference Federal "help" has made for them.
Social promotion, we didn't have high school exit exams, if you couldn't do 10th grade work you never made it to the 11th grade so graduation never became an issue.
Most importantly when a kid got in trouble at school it wasn't the teacher who worried about what would happen when the parents found out.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:41:53 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Spot on Jst.. jlf1961 wants to blame republicans and money or lack there of for under performing schools. The problem schools in this country are in the urban areas and inner cities. Money spent is not the problem. Children being raised by single moms who also never finished school is the problem. I know first hand as I worked in Milwaukee's inner city for 18 years. They just don't want to go to school and the moms couldn't care less. Dads for the most part, not in the picture.

There is also the problem that the money is so often wasted. School superentendants being given caddies to drive rather than low end fords or chevys using the money on school board staff because the board rates their job performance by the amout of paperwork done. A teacher friend of mine spent seven days one month teaching the rest was spent on paperwork sensetivity training and the like. People get to the point were they say we are not giving you any more till you prove you can manage what you have. Then the people hear that they don't care about education.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:42:41 PM   
servantforuse


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Now the kid e-mails the ACLU...

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:43:17 PM   
Sanity


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One of the "100 worst school districts" on your list is in Boise, and its not a district its a school for diverse students for whom English isnt the primary language

Their mission:

quote:

To educate each linguistically and culturally diverse student with the academic and social skills needed to succeed based on high standards for English literacy in listening, speaking, reading, and writing.


So that list is neither fair nor accurate


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

100 worst school districts in the US according to Neighborhood Scout.

Worst school district according to ABC

Worst School Graduation Rates according to Teaching Community

America's worst colleges according to Salon



< Message edited by Sanity -- 7/2/2012 8:44:17 PM >


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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:43:23 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Ex teacher here. One of the problems is that the flow of authority is bass ackwards. Those downtown have no clue what the principals and some principals have no idea what the teachers do because they abrogate all the authority to the AP (Asst Princ) as they "Social Climb" to try to get one of the high paying ($100K+) jobs as a paper pusher "Downtown". There's way too damn many chiefs for the # of indians.

Reverse that trend.

I quit teaching because someone offered me a 50% pay raise to work in their lab.

Amen

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:46:42 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If theres any particular ideology to blame, most schools are in very left leaning districts. And the NEA definitely left leaning


I bet if you look closely most poorly performing schools are in Red states.

Worst school system in the country is DC and the one with the most money, see the documentary waiting for Superman. This is the school district that misspelled education on their billboards.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:49:11 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate. 1/ Detroit. 2/Buffalo. 3/Cinncinati. 4/Cleveland. 5/Miami. 6/St.Louis. 7/ElPaso. 8/Milwaukee. 9/Philadelphia and 10/ Newark...All have one thing in common. A democrat as mayor..


Where's your list from?

The DailyFinance website has quite a different list. It doesn't include the party affiliation of the mayors, and I lack the bitter zeal needed to track it down on my own time.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:52:27 PM   
servantforuse


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I believe it was from 'ask yahoo'.. I went to several..A couple of the lists differed but were close and all run by dems..

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:54:27 PM   
erieangel


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I admit "throwing money" at the problem probably wouldn't solve the educational crisis in this country. However, solving the educational crisis in this country is going to cost money.

Here are some of my solutions:

Bring back small neighborhood schools in the cities. There is no reason why a 5-7 year old should have to be bused or walk a mile or 2 to and from school every day. Neighborhood schools allow for children to return home for lunch (if one parent or some other adult is available). Neighborhood schools will also mean smaller class sizes and better student/teacher ratios.

Bring back physical education and most especially recess to the early grades. Kids can not sit all day and be expected to be attentive for hours on end. They need exercise and to "let loose". Even 2 15-minute recess periods during the day will allow kids to release pent up energy and allow them to be more attentive for the coming lessons. Physical education will encourage children to be active and get away from electronics after school, especially if they are home hours before it gets dark.

Drop the zero tolerance rules in schools. Kids make mistakes and usually learn from them quickly. No child can be expected to act like a miniature adult and calling the police on a disorderly child is over the line. Stand him/her in the corner, send him/her to the principal's office or the guidance counselor's. The police usually have no business being on school property.

Cut summer vacation to 3-4 weeks. Our long summer vacation is a hold over from our pre-industrial age. There is no need for it. I know of some school districts that have tried to go 'year round' and the only people who seemed to be against it were the teachers unions. But even private and charter schools follow the same basic calendar.

In areas of high poverty, open the schools for after school and weekend activities. These can be run solely by the district or in cooperation with some other non-profit. Also, offer three meals a day to those in need, evening and weekend meals to families of poor students.

Also in areas of high poverty or areas where there is a high population of single parents (this doesn't happen only in the inner cities--I've lived in the Poconos) offer parenting classes, job readiness skills (interviewing skills, etc) and budgeting tips.

Rethink the way we "look" at grades in this country. Remember, a C is average. Most people are going to be average.



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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:56:44 PM   
BamaD


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In regards to Americans beeing so poorly educated they said the same thing about the generation that put us on the moon.
Here in the south one thing that distorts the stats is that many people who care about thier kids education and can afford to send their kids to private schools that work on a smaller budget and give a better education than the public schools.
I am all for public education as long as they educate.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 8:59:57 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

I admit "throwing money" at the problem probably wouldn't solve the educational crisis in this country. However, solving the educational crisis in this country is going to cost money.

Here are some of my solutions:

Bring back small neighborhood schools in the cities. There is no reason why a 5-7 year old should have to be bused or walk a mile or 2 to and from school every day. Neighborhood schools allow for children to return home for lunch (if one parent or some other adult is available). Neighborhood schools will also mean smaller class sizes and better student/teacher ratios.

Bring back physical education and most especially recess to the early grades. Kids can not sit all day and be expected to be attentive for hours on end. They need exercise and to "let loose". Even 2 15-minute recess periods during the day will allow kids to release pent up energy and allow them to be more attentive for the coming lessons. Physical education will encourage children to be active and get away from electronics after school, especially if they are home hours before it gets dark.

Drop the zero tolerance rules in schools. Kids make mistakes and usually learn from them quickly. No child can be expected to act like a miniature adult and calling the police on a disorderly child is over the line. Stand him/her in the corner, send him/her to the principal's office or the guidance counselor's. The police usually have no business being on school property.

Cut summer vacation to 3-4 weeks. Our long summer vacation is a hold over from our pre-industrial age. There is no need for it. I know of some school districts that have tried to go 'year round' and the only people who seemed to be against it were the teachers unions. But even private and charter schools follow the same basic calendar.

In areas of high poverty, open the schools for after school and weekend activities. These can be run solely by the district or in cooperation with some other non-profit. Also, offer three meals a day to those in need, evening and weekend meals to families of poor students.

Also in areas of high poverty or areas where there is a high population of single parents (this doesn't happen only in the inner cities--I've lived in the Poconos) offer parenting classes, job readiness skills (interviewing skills, etc) and budgeting tips.

Rethink the way we "look" at grades in this country. Remember, a C is average. Most people are going to be average.




I like what you have to say most of which is reverting to the kind of school systems I grew up in.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:03:49 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


One of the "100 worst school districts" on your list is in Boise, and its not a district its a school for diverse students for whom English isnt the primary language

Their mission:

quote:

To educate each linguistically and culturally diverse student with the academic and social skills needed to succeed based on high standards for English literacy in listening, speaking, reading, and writing.




I never made any claims either on the accuracy or the source... I just posted the link that most of the other sites I looked at used as a source.


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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:06:06 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
This is my opinion only, as an employee of a school district.
Parents. Parenting is a lost art in many places. You can not take a child who has never been taught anything in the first five years of their life, and expect them to catch up. There are kids who start school and can not count to 10, and do not even know colors and shapes. Stuff that could be learned by plopping them down in front of Sesame Street, even if you do not want to spend time with them your self.
Add to that all the parents that believe their child can do no wrong, and will come to raise holy hell about any small thing they get a call about, more young single parents who have not a clue, because they also come from a single parent who did not have a clue, and we are fucked.


This. x100

Throwing mo' money, mo' money, mo' money isn't solving the problem. We keep increasing what we are spending. We keep floundering and not improving.

"Teachers are underpaid!" Yes, and no. They are not underpaid for their teaching jobs. They are underpaid because of all the other jobs they have to do in addition to their teaching jobs. Too many people today think teachers are supposed to do the parenting of their kids.

I have a good friend, a teacher in an inner city school, and he's appalled at how kids are treated by their parent(s). Some of the kids are dropped off at 7am for school breakfast, get free/reduced cost lunch and then sit in after care until 7, 8 or even 9pm. When I worked at a YMCA, there were foster kids that got dropped off at 10am Saturday morning, and then picked up between 6-8pm (closed at 8pm). The same handful of kids each and every Saturday. It was very sad.

Parental involvement and parental parenting just don't happen like they should. Forcing teachers to parent in addition to being the teacher is wrong, wrong, wrong. And, it's expensive. Not only does it call for increased remuneration, but it takes an emotional, spiritual, and mental toll on the teachers.

The problem with all of this garbage that we are getting from the schools all stems from the fact that we can't legislate good parenting (or, maybe that's the next mandate...er, tax penalty).

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:16:19 PM   
Marini


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The United States educational system, needs to over hauled from the bottom to the top.

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/2/2012 9:17:41 PM >


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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:21:36 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

Without doubting that U.S. schools face serious challenges, two thoughts come to mind:

-- From 2001 to 2009, I was an editor at a classroom magazine, and my job took me into a variety of classrooms. More than once, I was struck by how kids were doing stuff way more sophisticated than I'd done at their age. In one Long Island school, for instance, third-graders had made Venn diagrams comparing their lives with those of the Maasai people in Kenya. I didn't learn Venn diagrams till much later in my "good" schools, and I encountered the Maasai only in professional research.

-- In November 1997, American Heritage published What Happened To America's Public Schools? This rejoinder to the prevailing hand-wringing pointed out that the U.S. now educates a much larger portion of its population than ever before. That has meant adjusting to students with varying levels of skills. The broader the school population, the less likely that everyone's gonna ace everything. Some may see that as decline, but the author views it as a mark of progress in that we're reaching more people.

His intriguing conclusion:

quote:

Today most statistics continue to show what Silberman found twenty-five years ago: Now is better than then. Achievement-test scores are at record levels, and the number of students taking advanced-placement exams continues to rise even though the number of students has declined since the peak of the baby boom. Seven of the nine trends in reading, mathematics, and science tracked by the National Assessment of Educational Progress are at all-time highs. Factor out demographic changes in who takes the SAT, and there remains a small decline in verbal scores and none at all in math. And as noted earlier, the proportion of students scoring above 650 on the SATs is at an all-time high, and U.S. students are near the top in reading. The Third International Mathematics and Science Study of 1997, the largest and most sophisticated of the international studies in mathematics and science—our allegedly weakest areas—has found that among forty-one nations, American students are average to above average. Students in suburban schools measured alone ranked anywhere from first to fifth among nations, depending on age and subject.

The biggest threat to the American educational system may come not from within our schools but from the depth of our divisions over what exactly they should accomplish and how best to get them to accomplish it. And our divisions will not be healed as long as we ignore the history of the accomplishments that have already been made. We should begin improving our schools by appreciating how well they have, in most places and at most times, done so far.


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