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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:23:28 PM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The poorer school districts have the lowest test scores. It is all relevant. When you look at that list of cities do you really need proof from Sanity ?

as neither of you have provided links... no, you've made my point for me, thankyou SO much

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:30:00 PM

erieangel

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There are a number of reasons for poor parenting today.

2 working parents to make ends meet.

In single parent households, it is even harder. I know single mothers who work 2-3 jobs just to pay the rent. Leaving small kids home alone isn't a legal option and often babysitting services are not in the budget with food, utilities, clothing being more important after rent.

As for your experience at the Y and those foster kids, that is sad. A family shouldn't be taking on foster kids unless they actually want to RAISE them. Unfortunately, I know of too many instances in which fostering was used as nothing more than a money making scheme for the foster family to the detriment of the children.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:38:40 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate. 1/ Detroit. 2/Buffalo. 3/Cinncinati. 4/Cleveland. 5/Miami. 6/St.Louis. 7/ElPaso. 8/Milwaukee. 9/Philadelphia and 10/ Newark...All have one thing in common. A democrat as mayor..

I'm only familiar with miami. Tomas Regolado is a Republican. Sorry to burst your bubble.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:39:59 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
That is one big reason the cost per pupil is so high. They might cut a music class or lay off a teachers aide, but the top heavy administration always stays in place.

Actually, this is only partly true.

The bigger portion of the higher costs is the relative lower incomes in the inner city areas. Lower incomes means free/reduced cost lunches, breakfast programs, etc. That stuff adds up, and adds up quickly. Suburban schools don't typically have all those same costs and have parents who tend to be more involved. That adds up to better outcomes.

Lucas County, Ohio School Districts; per pupil spending 2010/'11 school year (school rating):
Anthony Wayne: $8259 (Excellent)
Maumee: $10,626 (Excellent)
Oregon: $10,365 (Effective)
Ottawa Hills: $14,266 (Excellent)
Springfield Local: $9,320 (Excellent)
Sylvania: $11,574 (Excellent)
Toledo: $13,859 (Continuous Improvement)
Washington Local: $11,584 (Effective)

Other than Ottawa Hills (which is the "rich" area) almost all of the best ranked schools are in the lower spending/pupil category (Oregon does spend less but hasn't the top scores). Other than Ottawa Hills, Toledo City schools spend an average of more than $2,000 per pupil more than the other schools, yet have the lowest rated school District in the County. This is squarely on the reduced incomes in the District, the strength of the Teacher's Unions, the relatively high number of single family homes, and the lack of involved parenting.

I get it. Costs rise. Revenues have to keep up with costs. But, when costs keep going up faster than inflation, and outcomes aren't rising in relation to the cost, it starts to get really hard to keep throwing mo' money, mo' money, mo' money at the problems.

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Post #: 44

RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 9:50:58 PM

Hillwilliam

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Instead of looking at cities and individual districts, let's look at states.

http://www.vermontbiz.com/news/september/state-education-ranking-shows-vermont-1-south-carolina-last/

The worst 5 are S Carolina, West VA, Michigan, New Nexico and Louisiana.

Which of these are red and which are blue?

The top 5 are Vermont, Mass, FL, New Hampshire and NY.

Same question.

Judging by district and city is a bit of a red herring as educational policy is set at the state level, not local.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 7/2/2012 10:03:11 PM >

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 10:02:32 PM

littlewonder

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Here in Baltimore education is at its worst and a majority of students live in poverty which leads to the decline in education. This is an article from the the University of Maryland in Baltimore about the decline of education in Baltimore that mirrors national decline.

http://www.bsos.umd.edu/gvpt/stone/baltimore.html

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 10:03:52 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate. 1/ Detroit. 2/Buffalo. 3/Cinncinati. 4/Cleveland. 5/Miami. 6/St.Louis. 7/ElPaso. 8/Milwaukee. 9/Philadelphia and 10/ Newark...All have one thing in common. A democrat as mayor..

servant? seriously? do you realize that you often appear to be a partisan hack?

Can you ever admit, that many of the problems in this country are because of BOTH political parties?

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 10:12:00 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate. 1/ Detroit. 2/Buffalo. 3/Cinncinati. 4/Cleveland. 5/Miami. 6/St.Louis. 7/ElPaso. 8/Milwaukee. 9/Philadelphia and 10/ Newark...All have one thing in common. A democrat as mayor..

servant? seriously? do you realize that you often appear to be a partisan hack?

Can you ever admit, that many of the problems in this country are because of BOTH political parties?

No.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/2/2012 10:29:03 PM

erieangel

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quote:

servant? seriously? do you realize that you often appear to be a partisan hack?

Can you ever admit, that many of the problems in this country are because of BOTH political parties?

servant would cut off her nose to spite her face before doing that.

I, on the other hand, despite being a bleeding heart liberal, freely admit I have voted for more several republican lawmakers in the past.

They are all corrupt these days.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 2:12:10 AM

BenevolentM

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I think education is a value system and exists independent of teachers. The education system seems to think that they are where the action is and what it is about. It isn't. It reminds me of the song, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_So_Vain It isn't about you. It is about the students. You are nothing. You are a servant! Wink, servantforuse.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 6:23:46 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I don't know which is more pathetic. The numbers in the article or your attempt to blame it all on the right.

I know what's pathetic around here and it's not jlf's detailed explanation of actual issues.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 6:28:13 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
The Milwaukee school district spends $14,011 per student per year. The graduation rate is an appalling 46 %, one of 17 urban districts that come in below 50 %. Throwing more and more money in a pit is not the answer.

You've listed a few stats and then jump to asserting your conclusion, what's missing is your argument. How do you get from the data to your conclusion?

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 6:33:17 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Instead of looking at cities and individual districts, let's look at states.
http://www.vermontbiz.com/news/september/state-education-ranking-shows-vermont-1-south-carolina-last/
The worst 5 are S Carolina, West VA, Michigan, New Nexico and Louisiana.
Which of these are red and which are blue?
The top 5 are Vermont, Mass, FL, New Hampshire and NY.
Same question.
Judging by district and city is a bit of a red herring as educational policy is set at the state level, not local.

Yep, let's take a look as far away as possible to make a political point. And, you are dead ass wrong if you think all the schools listed all operate the same way. My boys' school district doesn't have to deal with most of the stuff Toledo City schools do. That's one of the reasons their spend is much less. And, a much greater impact can be made at the local level than at the State level. What works in my County may not work in any other County. Hell, what works in my District may not work for any other District within my County. And, this is exactly why the "one-size fits all" mindsets don't work. One size (one teaching style) does not fit all. Each District is going to have to tailor their teaching to the particular mix of students.

Too much emphasis is placed on education and those in the education system. They can be miracle workers, but they can't perform miracles in every aspect of life. And, that is what too many people are expecting from a school.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 6:53:47 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This. x100

Throwing mo' money, mo' money, mo' money isn't solving the problem.

Please document this. My parents payed more than twice the biggest per student number that anyone has listed in this thread for me to go to school.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 6:55:36 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I don't know which is more pathetic. The numbers in the article or your attempt to blame it all on the right.

'Wake-up call': U.S. students trail global leaders - US news - Life ...
www.msnbc.msn.com/.../us.../wake-up-call-us-students-t... - United States
7 Dec 2010 – Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math. Those scores are all higher than those from 2003 and ...
In ranking, U.S. students trail global leaders
- USATODAY.com
www.usatoday.com/.../2010-12-07-us-students-international-ranking...
7 Dec 2010 – Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math. Those scores are all higher than those from 2003 and ...
We need year-round school to compete globally
- CNN
articles.cnn.com/.../granderson.yearround.school_1_year-round-scho...
10 May 2011 – American 15-year-olds ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math in a study of students in 34 nations and nonnational regions.
Articles about Math And Science - CNN - Featured Articles from CNN

articles.cnn.com/keyword/math-and-science
In math, U.S. high schoolers were in the bottom quarter of the countries that ... American 15-year-olds ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math in a ... But out of 34 industrialized countries, American students rank 17th in science ...
If America Spends More Than Most Countries Per Student, Then ...

articles.businessinsider.com/.../30587761_1_oecd-countries...
by Michael Brendan Dougherty - in 291 Google+ circles
7 Jan 2012 – Comparatively speaking, the United States does not starve its education. ... which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.

U.S. Teens Lag as China Soars on International Test - Bloomberg
www.bloomberg.com/.../teens-in-u-s-rank-25th-on-math-test-trail-in-...
7 Dec 2010 – Fifteen-year-olds in the U.S. ranked 25th among peers from 34 countries on a math test and scored in the middle in science and reading, while China's ... The average U.S. reading score of 500 ranked 14th among OECD ... The average U.S. science score of 502 ranks 17th in the OECD nations, which were ...

US ranked 25th out of 34 in International Math Test « BLOG
gideonlearning.wordpress.com/.../us-ranked-25th-out-of-34-in-intern...
7 Dec 2010 – Fifteen-year-old students in the U.S. ranked 25th of 34 countries on an international ... U.S. students ranked 17th in science and 14th in reading.
Education –
Can't Ever Get Enough Science and Math | Citizen ...
citizenscientistsleague.com/.../education-–-can’t-ever-get-enough-scie...
24 May 2012 – ... in reading and science, and below average in math. Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math ...

page one of google search shows up these articles.
so your first guess was misplaced

I said those numbers were pathetic as in it's pathetic that they were so low. Do you disagree?

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 6:59:39 AM

mnottertail

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No child left behind has left more children behind, and we were already behind.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 7:02:24 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate. 1/ Detroit. 2/Buffalo. 3/Cinncinati. 4/Cleveland. 5/Miami. 6/St.Louis. 7/ElPaso. 8/Milwaukee. 9/Philadelphia and 10/ Newark...All have one thing in common. A democrat as mayor..

While I agree that poverty plays a large role. In Detroit one of their biggest problems is a adminstration that mismanages most of the money the schools receive and out and out steals the rest.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 7:11:10 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate. 1/ Detroit. 2/Buffalo. 3/Cinncinati. 4/Cleveland. 5/Miami. 6/St.Louis. 7/ElPaso. 8/Milwaukee. 9/Philadelphia and 10/ Newark...All have one thing in common. A democrat as mayor..

servant? seriously? do you realize that you often appear to be a partisan hack?

Can you ever admit, that many of the problems in this country are because of BOTH political parties?

I found it interesting that you jumped on this poster for being partisan but didn't say a word about the op which did the same thing, just from the other side.

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 7:15:45 AM

mnottertail

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These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate.
1/ Detroit.
2/Buffalo.
3/Cinncinati.
4/Cleveland.
5/Miami.
6/St.Louis.
7/ElPaso.
8/Milwaukee.
9/Philadelphia
10/ Newark

And why do they have such a high poverty rate, isnt one of them supposedly the auto manufacturing capital, isn't one of them in the iron workers center, isnt one of them....?

What businesses are there?

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RE: Education in the US - 7/3/2012 7:17:42 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

These are the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rate.
1/ Detroit.
2/Buffalo.
3/Cinncinati.
4/Cleveland.
5/Miami.
6/St.Louis.
7/ElPaso.
8/Milwaukee.
9/Philadelphia
10/ Newark

And why do they have such a high poverty rate, isnt one of them supposedly the auto manufacturing capital, isn't one of them in the iron workers center, isnt one of them....?

What businesses are there?

The biggest business in Detroit is corruption and they are doing very nicely with it. We haven't been the auto manufacturing capital for a while.

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