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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 6:34:36 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
Stolen from case law in Florida....There does have to be "some" evidence...a bit different than a "normal" defense.


In Florida though, as long as any evidence is given, no matter how flimsy (even as little as the defendant's words), that's enough for the Jury instruction on Self Defense, and requires the State to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/6/2012 6:35:20 AM >

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 221
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 6:37:55 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		And Zimmerman being a lying piece of shit who would defraud his own defense attorney as he was preparing to flee the country after being granted on bail is enough to dispel any lingering doubts.

If Zimmerman's telling the truth, why was he trying to flee prosecution?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/6/2012 6:40:16 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 222
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 7:14:34 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

The claim of "self-Defense" does indeed move some of the burden of proof to the defense.

(3) The presumption set forth in division (B)(1) of this section is a rebuttable presumption and may be rebutted by a preponderance of the evidence.

b) A defense involving an excuse or justification peculiarly within the knowledge of the accused, on which the accused can fairly be required to adduce supporting evidence.

although Zimmerman has to introduce some evidence that he acted in self-defense, that doesn't mean that he has to convince the jury that he acted in self-defense. All he has to do is to create a "reasonable doubt" as to whether he acted in self-defense. A proposed amendment to the Florida Jury Instructions makes that perfectly clear.

Stolen from case law in Florida....There does have to be "some" evidence...a bit different than a "normal" defense.


I do have to agree with you. It is true that Zimmerman does not have to take the stand on his own behalf, but to argue "self defense" or in other matters, a jury would like here the defendent's side. There in is Zimmerman trouble, even O'Mara admits to Zimmerman honesty or lack of it. This was shown in the June 29th hearing when O'Mara attempted to have an unsworn statement by Zimmerman entered into the record. The Judge refused to have it, as he put "He's nothing special, if he wants to make statement, he can come up take the oath and be subject to cross examination", shortly after O'Mara changed his mind about having Zimmerman testify under oath and be subject to cross examination by the DA.

(in reply to SilverMark)
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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 7:46:21 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		And that whole transaction was noted by the Judge as he pointed out that the defense offered a retelling of events but no explanation other than "Zimmerman ( who has had extensive legal education in his pursuit of a legal career ) didn't trust the court..."

And since Zimmerman didn't trust the court then, and was preparing to flee, why would anything think he's telling the truth about anything now?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 224
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 11:09:10 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Another thought as I was reading USA Today... Where is Zimmerman going to come up with a million dollars of collateral for the bondsman? Sure, the "useful idiots" are opening up their wallets, but will he be able to raise a million in cash, since it appears they don't have the collateral for the bond?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 1:58:25 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


If you view the video I mentioned, or even Google the Twin Lakes Retreat area and view images, you will see the sidewalk is made of concrete and not pavement.

As to Zimmerman's perception? Consider this: Zimmerman states Martin hit his head against the cement; if Martin indeed did so, how do you think he would have done it? Would he gently push his head down? Or would he likely take his head and bash it down? If Martin is trying his best to hurt Zimmerman, he wouldn't be doing something so mild as to cause only lacerations and bruising. That is why I believe that Zimmerman's head likely banged against something during their struggle and was not a result of Martin banging Zimmerman's head against the cement sidewalk.

First thank you for the information.
If the were struggling it is quite likely that Zimmermans head bounced off the pavement even if Martin wasn't "bashing" it into the pavement. Zimmerman though could easily precieve it that way and none of this negates the broken nose which would affect his preception of events.
I would like to say that though I disagree with you it is nice to talk to a person with an intellegent and curtious approach.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 226
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 2:03:19 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm arguing from the point of view of the PROSECUTION. Which is, of course, the relevant context.

Christian? Jesus is a fucking pussy. MY G-D SMITES FIRST, THEN SORTS 'EM OUT.

See Also: The Bible ( what you'd call "The Old Testament" as if there's some other one... )



DevianlytD this is an example of what I was talking about.
Congradulations you have branched out to show your lack of knowlege in a whole new area. The Bible is divided into two parts , The Old Testement, And the New Testement which is the story of Christ.


Dude...the way this is written makes it appear as if you're insulting me. Do you realize how unclear your post sounds? You should address the 2nd sentence to the person you are speaking to. With my name in the first sentence, it appears as though you're directing everything towards me. Oy.

I am sorry if it sounded that way it was not my intention. I was just giving an example of pointing out a mistake and providing information to back it up. Again I appologize I would never intentionally insult you of all people. Farglebargle's rants bring out the wort in me that is an excuse not a reason.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 4:47:16 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And Zimmerman being a lying piece of shit who would defraud his own defense attorney as he was preparing to flee the country after being granted on bail is enough to dispel any lingering doubts.

If Zimmerman's telling the truth, why was he trying to flee prosecution?


He didn't. The Judge said that circumstances meant that would have been a reasonable conclusion of the court. O'Mara had evidence that showed they weren't trying to flee but didn't present it, maybe because it could have been more incriminating to Shellie. (Only reason I could think of).

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 4:48:28 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Another thought as I was reading USA Today... Where is Zimmerman going to come up with a million dollars of collateral for the bondsman? Sure, the "useful idiots" are opening up their wallets, but will he be able to raise a million in cash, since it appears they don't have the collateral for the bond?


He's out of jail now, so they worked something out.

One bondsmen told the press that he'd sign that bond with his eyes closed without any collateral, that it's a safe bond.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 6:25:23 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And Zimmerman being a lying piece of shit who would defraud his own defense attorney as he was preparing to flee the country after being granted on bail is enough to dispel any lingering doubts.

If Zimmerman's telling the truth, why was he trying to flee prosecution?


He didn't. The Judge said that circumstances meant that would have been a reasonable conclusion of the court. O'Mara had evidence that showed they weren't trying to flee but didn't present it, maybe because it could have been more incriminating to Shellie. (Only reason I could think of).


The judge also noted Zimmerman “lack of candor” and "is manipulating the system to his own benefit." Note he can't even leave the county without permission from the court. Zimmerman is on a short leash.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 6:28:09 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Another thought as I was reading USA Today... Where is Zimmerman going to come up with a million dollars of collateral for the bondsman? Sure, the "useful idiots" are opening up their wallets, but will he be able to raise a million in cash, since it appears they don't have the collateral for the bond?



He's out of jail now, so they worked something out.

One bondsmen told the press that he'd sign that bond with his eyes closed without any collateral, that it's a safe bond.


Yep and now Zimmerman has another chance to screw it up again...

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/6/2012 11:58:46 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Zimmerman doesn't need to screw up again. He's already impeached his credibility to the point where he cannot take the stand to testify. That ends his SYG defense.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/7/2012 4:43:41 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Another thought as I was reading USA Today... Where is Zimmerman going to come up with a million dollars of collateral for the bondsman? Sure, the "useful idiots" are opening up their wallets, but will he be able to raise a million in cash, since it appears they don't have the collateral for the bond?


He's out of jail now, so they worked something out.

One bondsmen told the press that he'd sign that bond with his eyes closed without any collateral, that it's a safe bond.


And I told you that, and why it would be that.

He is a guy who cannot hide.  Everybody knows where he is, it is like he is wearing tinfoil and the spaceships are hovering above him.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/7/2012 5:56:47 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		The reason the judge allowed the bail is because he`s forging an appeal proof case.


At every turn,the state is going to allow the defendant as much leeway possible.


No need to pretend George got break for being a good boy.....everyone accept charlie manson gets bail.


However the judge did tip his hand when he said he thought George was going to skip town with the money and extra passport.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/7/2012 6:51:15 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Appeal-Proof it is. Even after taking note of the Defendant's fraud, and that he could hold him in criminal contempt ( which would have been a violation of his bail conditions ) and that the State could charge him for a crime, he still gives George everything George could ask for. I think now that he's lo-jacked and can't leave the county there's not too much flight risk. I think the Judges conditions are reasonable. I do worry that George will think he's immune to drug tests or something, and in the time between now and trial, might get caught up on the "No Alcohol" provisions.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/7/2012 4:25:27 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The reason the judge allowed the bail is because he`s forging an appeal proof case.


He allowed bail because he's following Florida law which says George had the right to bail unless the State could meet a burden of proof that it didn't meet.

Which is actually potentially a really good thing...if the Judge follows the law that strictly during the SYG hearing, this could be over sooner than later, because even with the reduced burden on the State, so far it seems all the objective evidence points to self defense. George's word will mean nothing on it's own to the judge, but when you corroborate it with witnesses and evidence:


Zimmerman claims the altercation started at the T and went down the dogwalk. W11 heard an altercation start near the T and work its way down the dogwalk. W6 hears an altercation near W11 and work it way to his back patio.

Zimmerman claims Martin attacked from a mounted position. W14 sees Zimmerman on the ground yelling for help. W6 see Martin on top of Zimmerman. W2 sees Zimmerman on the ground with someone on top of him.

Zimemrman claims W6 came out to warn them away. W6 claims he came out to warn them away. W2 sees W6 come out to warn them away. etc...

And what evidence does the state have to refute that?

There's a ton of detail, none of which impeach Zimmerman's statements. The closer to the altercation, the closer to Zimmerman's version. The more they saw, the more they support Zimmerman.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/7/2012 4:26:51 PM >

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/7/2012 7:42:10 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Another thought as I was reading USA Today... Where is Zimmerman going to come up with a million dollars of collateral for the bondsman? Sure, the "useful idiots" are opening up their wallets, but will he be able to raise a million in cash, since it appears they don't have the collateral for the bond?


He's out of jail now, so they worked something out.

One bondsmen told the press that he'd sign that bond with his eyes closed without any collateral, that it's a safe bond.


What they worked out was his parents put up property for collateral and Zimmerman has to pay $9.50 every day to the sheriff's office for electronically monitoring him.

George Zimmerman Freed 1M Bond

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/7/2012 9:18:45 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		The GPS monitoring wasn't worked out with the bondsman, that was ordered by the judge.

The bondsman is risking nearly 800k on the bet that George isn't a flight risk.

(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/7/2012 11:27:49 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Witness 2 changes her story from:

"saw a fistfight. Just fists. I don't know who was hitting who."
to
"I couldn't tell you if it was a man, a woman, a kid, black or white. I couldn't tell you because it was dark and because I didn't have my contacts on or glasses. … I just know I saw a person out there."


Witness 6 said
he saw a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style," a reference to mixed martial arts

changed to

The man later said he wasn't sure who was yelling for help, and that Martin may have merely
pinned Zimmerman to the ground.

Witness 12 said

saw two people on the ground immediately after the shooting and was not sure who was on top, Zimmerman or Trayvon.
"I don't know which one. … All I saw when they were on the ground was dark colors,"
Six days later, however, she was sure: It was Zimmerman on top,

Witness 13 said
Zimmerman's tone, the witness said, was "not like 'I can't believe I just shot someone!' — it was more like, 'Just tell my wife I shot somebody …,' like it was nothing."

And it looks like Witness 9 Zimmermans old girl friend will get to to testify, and she has alot to say about the Zimmerman family

"I know George, and I know that he does not like black people...He would start something. He's a very confrontational person. It's in his blood. Let's just say that."

Just mean and open about it, and I don't know what he's capable of, but I do know things that he's done to me that I would never, I would never talk to him about ever again."

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/8/2012 12:25:57 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		And the witnesses I mentioned still corroborate Zimmerman's story, with nothing from the state so far to refute it, as I said.

The more the person heard/saw, the more they seem to match Zimmerman's story.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/8/2012 12:26:40 AM >

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 240
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