quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Why is making a profit a problem?

Don't medical supplies and equipment cost money... Lots of money?

The only problem I see is people who think good health is a right, and not the luck of the draw. People will still die, life is a terminal disease. The federal government doesn't have the authority to run the health care system according to the constitution, your state does, however.

One last thing, why do some of you think that the federal government is the best option to run a single payer health care system? Can anyone name a single program they run that isn't overloaded with bureaucracy, and overspending?

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Making a profit is not a problem. Assfucking and then killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is the problem. Capitalism is supposed to be about making a profit by doing something more efficiently and cheaply and outcompeting everyone else.
That is not how our healthcare system works. If it did, we wouldn't have the most expensive system in the world with a mediocre (at best) level of care.

Did you stop and think about why a hospital charges what it does?

Could it be because there are people seeking services they can't afford to pay for?

Just who is doing the ass fucking here? Is it really the insurance company that is gambling that you'll pay more in premiums, than you will spend in coverage, or the people using the hospitals that can't afford the services?

Where is it written that a for profit company must lose money on every transaction to keep you healthy?

They charge what they do because they have to treat whoever shows up and we get to pay for it. how is that different from what just got passed except instead of an ER visit, they'll make an appointment at a "Doc-in-a-Box" which saves money.

Again, my point is that Capitalism is all about efficiency and delivering superior goods and services for less money. This allows you to outcompete your opponents. Our healthcare system of by far the most expensive in the world but it isn't even in the top 20 for quality of care. That is NOT Capitalism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Let me see if I understand you, if you are poor and cannot afford health care, you are not to do anything like go to the ER or a doctor.

That sure sounds like the typical republican idea that the poor or lower middle class that dont have health insurance dont need medical care.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967



One those ratings are very subjective, and don't use the same criteria for every country... To say ___ has better health care than the US is pure nonsense, show me where they judged ___ by the same criteria as the US.

Two, that was MY point, hospitals charge what they do to cover the costs of people who can't pay. Nobody gets turned away.

Three, are you really trying to say that the federal government will be more efficient than a private sector business? Have you ever tried to collect on a government contract?

HMO's are a testament to your Doc in a box theory. Have you ever seen a cheap, or efficient HMO? I certainly haven't.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
These people who whine that doctors will leave the country in droves are full of it.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
These people who whine that doctors will leave the country in droves are full of it.

Come to that, has Limpdick pissed off to Cuba yet, or was he full of it as well?

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Mere profit of course is not a problem. Health care practitioners and insurers ALL over the world make a profit. The question is of course...how much profit ?

There are 200...that's right profiteers...200 health care insurance cos. in Germany, all actually competing for business and...MAKING A PROFIT.

$100 head & shoulders MRI in Japan. $1,500 (some pay $2000) for the same procedure in the US. It's called GREED and greed is very very profitable. I don't insult our intelligence here anymore than our esteemed politicians do about tort reform. A mere 2% max. of ALL health care costs do not justify 1500% above those markets with tort regulation.

Until the American people begin vote with their feet to go work and pay taxes in a society that believes economy should also serve society instead of merely investors, things will not change.

America's culture now (and for 40 years) is a profit...all about money and just look where one major concern there is out there...somewhere around 50% do not pay or pay not much in taxes except soc. sec and medicare taxes and because they are too poor.

So you are to go out and in the true spirit of the continuing impoverishment of the great American unwashed...get that 2nd and 3rd job so we can tax you...bitch.

And stop complaining about paying 2X as much as the rest of the west for something called health care and dying 4-5 years younger than them.

I am an American capitalist and ALL I care about...ALL I care about is my profit and how little tax I can pay on it so if you have to spend so much more and die earlier to provide me my profit...then you will work harder pay more...and then die.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
These people who whine that doctors will leave the country in droves are full of it.

Come to that, has Limpdick pissed off to Cuba yet, or was he full of it as well?

I thought he was going to Costa Rica. Yaknow, that place that has socialized medicine.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
These people who whine that doctors will leave the country in droves are full of it.

Come to that, has Limpdick pissed off to Cuba yet, or was he full of it as well?

I thought he was going to Costa Rica. Yaknow, that place that has socialized medicine.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I'll keep this simple. Show that "We get what we pay for". We have the most expensive health care in the world. Show that we have the best.
Life expectancy, we lose.
Fetal and neonatal death rates. We lose.
Cancer survival. We lose
About every major criterion, we lose.

As for government health care, The government already controls a very large portion of health care. VA, Medicare, etc. These people who whine that doctors will leave the country in droves are full of it. The VA centers are full of doctors who came TO this country.
I'm not saying that Obamacare is the answer. It isn't but it's a kick in the ass in the right direction.
As long as our lawmakers are bought and paid for by Big Pharma and the insurance companies, we're screwed. The buying and selling of lawmakers like so many whores isn't capitalism. It's third world authoritarianism.

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967
What you call greed, I call smart business sense. I don't think ANY business can make too much money, in fact most of the wealthiest people have made themselves wealthy by investing in such businesses... Why aren't you?

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ORIGINAL: SadistDave

ROFLMAO!

Still trying to sell Obamacare? Don't worry little liberal buckaroos! Your Fearless Leader and his minions have given you a better, more socially just kind of health care. You don't need to sell it anymore. Now you can all suckle at the government health care tit.

I'm really kind of surprised at how unhappy you all seem to be about Obamacare. Shouldn't you all be standing around somewhere singing Kumbaya and smoking weed instead of bitching about the evils of capitalism, now that you have conquered it's evil grip on health care?

Oh, and no offence to my liberal pals here, but Democrats still don't have the balls to own the economy they've destroyed. Well, they don't have a choice on this one. As of the implementation of the first parts of Obamacare, any complaints you have concerning health care should be directed to the Democratic Party. If you have a problem with insurance, then maybe you should not have been so keen on a plan like Obamacare that forces people to buy it. This one is all yours kids! If you don't like what you got, I have no sympathy for you.

Next time a nitwit like Nancy Pelosi tells you to pass a bill without reading it, maybe you should tell her to go fuck herself.

-SD-

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


One those ratings are very subjective, and don't use the same criteria for every country... To say ___ has better health care than the US is pure nonsense, show me where they judged ___ by the same criteria as the US.

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Name one person who has survived life.

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Who are you to dictate how much profit is too much? What's stopping you from not doing business with a company that makes too much money? Hell, what's stopping you from moving to Japan if you like their health care so much?

What you call greed, I call smart business sense. I don't think ANY business can make too much money, in fact most of the wealthiest people have made themselves wealthy by investing in such businesses... Why aren't you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

One those ratings are very subjective, and don't use the same criteria for every country... To say ___ has better health care than the US is pure nonsense, show me where they judged ___ by the same criteria as the US.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Let me see if I understand you, if you are poor and cannot afford health care, you are not to do anything like go to the ER or a doctor.

That sure sounds like the typical republican idea that the poor or lower middle class that dont have health insurance dont need medical care.

Nope, you don't understand me... Perhaps it was the clear English I typed, or your bias.

I said the reason medical costs are so high is because the poor ARE treated, and the cost is passed on to the rest of us, which I clearly said, I don't mind paying... That is called CHOICE, which is what FREEDOM brings... Under the ACA, all freedom is lost because I either have to carry mandated insurance, or pay a tax... Tell me, do you really believe that having to pay a tax because you DIDN'T buy something is fair? Oh that's right, your poor and disabled, so you don't have to pay the tax... The gubbamint will provide for you... Who's being selfish here?

I never said the poor shouldn't seek treatment, and I didn't say those who don't have medical insurance shouldn't seek care... Both of those statements are a figment of your imagination, based or your extremely misguided opinion of conservatives.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Let me see if I understand you, if you are poor and cannot afford health care, you are not to do anything like go to the ER or a doctor.

That sure sounds like the typical republican idea that the poor or lower middle class that dont have health insurance dont need medical care.

Nope, you don't understand me... Perhaps it was the clear English I typed, or your bias.

I said the reason medical costs are so high is because the poor ARE treated, and the cost is passed on to the rest of us, which I clearly said, I don't mind paying... That is called CHOICE, which is what FREEDOM brings... Under the ACA, all freedom is lost because I either have to carry mandated insurance, or pay a tax... Tell me, do you really believe that having to pay a tax because you DIDN'T buy something is fair? Oh that's right, your poor and disabled, so you don't have to pay the tax... The gubbamint will provide for you... Who's being selfish here?

I never said the poor shouldn't seek treatment, and I didn't say those who don't have medical insurance shouldn't seek care... Both of those statements are a figment of your imagination, based or your extremely misguided opinion of conservatives.

Actually, you have made it quite clear, as has the senate minority leader, that the poor in America do not deserve health care.

quote:

Mere profit of course is not a problem. Health care practitioners and insurers ALL over the world make a profit. The question is of course...how much profit ? I will answer this for you Mr. Rodgers, as much profit as we can get!!! If we can get slave labor, that's even better.


There are 200...that's right profiteers...200 health care insurance cos. in Germany, all actually competing for business and...MAKING A PROFIT.

$100 head & shoulders MRI in Japan. $1,500 (some pay $2000) for the same procedure in the US. It's called GREED and greed is very very profitable. I don't insult our intelligence here anymore than our esteemed politicians do about tort reform. A mere 2% max. of ALL health care costs do not justify 1500% above those markets with tort regulation.

Until the American people begin vote with their feet to go work and pay taxes in a society that believes economy should also serve society instead of merely investors, things will not change.
This may take many years, Americans don't want to accept reality.


America's culture now (and for 40 years) is a profit...all about money and just look where one major concern there is out there...somewhere around 50% do not pay or pay not much in taxes except soc. sec and medicare taxes and because they are too poor.

So you are to go out and in the true spirit of the continuing impoverishment of the great American unwashed...get that 2nd and 3rd job so we can tax you...bitch.
I like it when you get tough, preach!
About that job thing? That ain't so easy these days.

And stop complaining about paying 2X as much as the rest of the west for something called health care and dying 4-5 years younger than them.

I am an American capitalist and ALL I care about...ALL I care about is my profit and how little tax I can pay on it so if you have to spend so much more and die earlier to provide me my profit...then you will work harder pay more...and then die.
This is the truth!
Accept the facts !