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RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:03:09 AM   
DragonslairHouse


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline 		I am a trainer, and I have to say those who have not been under a trainers hands miss something I must say because I have been without searching and I have been with and been trained both have thier pros and cons. But each person to thier own your going to believe what your going to believe. Formalized servitude is rare these days and that is where the old schools come into play... Most these days just want to play and get laid which is so sad because the lifestyle isn't about that at all.  Those are just its rewards.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:05:49 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DragonslairHouse

I am a trainer, and I have to say those who have not been under a trainers hands miss something I must say because I have been without searching and I have been with and been trained both have thier pros and cons. But each person to thier own your going to believe what your going to believe. Formalized servitude is rare these days and that is where the old schools come into play... Most these days just want to play and get laid which is so sad because the lifestyle isn't about that at all.  Those are just its rewards.

This one only prays that you don't try and train grammar.

First off, you say that we're "missing out" because we don't do training and THEN say "to each their own" and "we each believe what we believe."  You can't have both.

Then you denigrate those who know what they want- sex and play and enjoy it and that is exactly what this lifestyle is about for them. 

You can't say "to each their own" and then say "But your way is sad compared to mine and you've got it all wrong." 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DragonslairHouse)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:07:41 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Theres alot of danger anywhere in getting hurt emotionally if you dont make smart choices. its not exclusive to bdsm.  Open up the paper and read dear Abby, its the same shit..."He broke my heart"  "He mislead me".  "She lied to me"  "He pissed in my cereal".  "I'll never trust again" blah blah blah.  The first thing these 'novices' of 'bdsm' should learn is that the same common sense applies that you would use anywhere else.  The same dangers exist.  The same pros and cons exist. 

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:07:45 AM   
MistressLadynite


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		OK.. here is MY thought for what its worth..
I have been in this lifestyle about 10 years.  I have seen submissives who understand the "old guard" type protocol of the lifestyle. I have seen the absolutly laid back.. type attitudes.  But the one that SCARES Me the most is when a newbie comes to the dungeon and says.. I will do ANYTHING if you just play with Me.  I want to just shake that person and say.. for pitty sake you have NO clue what you could be getting yourself into.  WITH some training and guidence from someone, maybe that person would not possibly put themselves in harms way.  I have in the past more than once.. more times than I can say.. have seen a submissive get swept up by someone that is HUNGERY for power control and really emotionally abuise a newbie, confuse them and actually cause them to flee the building. HOW SAD!!! MORE THAN ONCE!! and all I can think is, that person NOW has a VERY BAD view of this "crazy" lifestyle.   Had they had any training from a Dominate that is compassionate and can teach and warn them about the possiblities out there.  Teach them that they DO have rights as a submissive, that submission is a GIFT to be Given not TAKEN or SNATCHED by a greedy Dominate.. whew.. this is a really HOT spot for Me.. only because I have seen it too many times.  I have seen a NON pain slut get the hell beat out of them before they were BRAVE enough to say.. STOP.. this is NOT Me..

OK.. off the soapbox.. I could write for days.. I do believe that some LOGICAL training is a good thing.. you wouldnt push a bird out of a nest.. before its ready to fly.. why put these newbies in the hands of someone who really only believes.. "its all about ME" IT will only set them up for failure and ya know. some submissives cant deal with that kind of experience.. they will just quit the lifestyle all together.

Mistress Ladynite

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:10:54 AM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DragonslairHouse

I am a trainer, and I have to say those who have not been under a trainers hands miss something I must say because I have been without searching and I have been with and been trained both have thier pros and cons. But each person to thier own your going to believe what your going to believe. Formalized servitude is rare these days and that is where the old schools come into play... Most these days just want to play and get laid which is so sad because the lifestyle isn't about that at all.  Those are just its rewards.


i have to agree with the highlighted part... Very sorry, i am not sure how to edit and quote someone...   

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to DragonslairHouse)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:12:34 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLadynite
IT will only set them up for failure and ya know. some submissives cant deal with that kind of experience.. they will just quit the lifestyle all together.

Mistress Ladynite

Dominants do that all the time also "quit the lifestyle forever."

As Marie said, it's a life issue.  Pushing a sub into the type of training YOU think is "good for them" is just as bad as anything- because they still aren't making a smart educated choice for themselves.

That's the point they need to be at- only then can they be capable of making the RIGHT choice for themselves, instead of just sheer dumb luck.

Of course, TELL a novice that and they will spit at you and rush off to whatever option makes them feel hottest and sounds coolest to them in 2 seconds flat.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MistressLadynite)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:13:01 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DragonslairHouse

I am a trainer, and I have to say those who have not been under a trainers hands miss something I must say because I have been without searching and I have been with and been trained both have thier pros and cons. But each person to thier own your going to believe what your going to believe. Formalized servitude is rare these days and that is where the old schools come into play... Most these days just want to play and get laid which is so sad because the lifestyle isn't about that at all.  Those are just its rewards.


I dont understand how you can train someone to be in a relationship with another person.  I would imagine even where people subscribe to the old guard, or gorean rituals or whatever, each couple would still have their own unique flavor as to where and how that gets applied to their own relationship. 

(in reply to DragonslairHouse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:13:30 AM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		Hasn't anyone else read "The Story of O"?

Between pieces of fiction like that, and the emails offering training or mentorship, dom profiles stating a preference for experience but willing to train, and continual references to training, it is no wonder that so many new submissives think that some kind of training program will not only benefit them, but make them more desirable.

*********

[I]In a sacred, offical, traditional, ancient ritual ceremony, styled after those performed throughout the ages by our primeval forebearers in the secret lifestyle, Sir Lord Grand Master Dom Flash in the Pants (aka FirmhandKY) has presented me with his "collard of consideration", complete with extreme, ne plus ultra protection to guard against my being commandeered or otherwise appropriated away from his august, exalted, illustrious, and sublime presence. ;)[/I]

(in reply to MistressLadynite)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:14:31 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

each couple would still have their own unique flavor as to where and how that gets applied to their own relationship. 


And therein lies the fun of being trained by the one you are with.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:22:34 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		This was supposed to be in response to dragonslairhouse

um.... I was a real life server for over 10 years... experienced in the arts of catering parties, bartending, wedding catering, hostess service, cocktail serving. I know what garnish goes with what drink, I know how to seat people based upon gender and age. I know how to pour wine, how to taste it, how to check a cork to judge the wine. I know which side of the guest to pull a plate from. I know much much more about "service". I learned all of this in the vanilla world and hun.. there is not much you could teach me about it...smiles.. I could probably teach you a thing or two... and I still say, I am not involved in BDSM to impress you or anyone like you... Im in it for me and my dominant....He will decide what I need to learn and how I need to please him, not a group of people claiming some "Old Guard" status.

The funny thing is most that claim this do not own it, they have never served a dominant themselves for example.. which is the first step to learning the lifestyle yourself..most dominants havent done this, but that makes them no less dominant in my eyes.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/8/2006 11:23:56 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MistressLadynite)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:24:44 AM   
lisa1978


Posts: 224
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Kansas City
Status: offline 		People focus on training bugs me. The key to me, and I would think most subs/slaves is to find the right person for you and when you find that right person for you and vice versa, you can be trained to please that one person. I do not think it is important at all for a sub/slave to be trained and have some sort of degree that states, "I know 20 positions", "I can a certain type of cane on my ass at a certain force, a certain amount of times", and other things. I do not believe this life is rocket science.

Now if people want to play around and see if the life is for them before going serious and people like playing with novices and introducing them into things more power to you, but to spin it as something noble and important, to me, goes a bit too far.

As far as old guard or Gorean, again, to each their own, but when I read posts that dominants stress training for newbies and even when I get emails from dominants wanting to train me a small red flag goes up in my head. Are they really interested in helping the newbie out, want to preach their way to them or are just trying to capture a newbie for themselves. Of course that is what communication is for to figure these things out. It is also why I always advise a new person to make friends with other subs/slaves is just as important as anything so you can know someone who knows what you are going through which is something a dominant just cannot do.





_____________________________

It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

(in reply to kittensmailbox)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:26:59 AM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline 		i have to admit, i really kinda miss the training... i do love learning new and exciting things...

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to lisa1978)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:27:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		should this be construed to be a proffer of some type of training in serving etiquette if someone posed you such a question privately or even in the forums and no blowjobs required? 

You gotta be fucking kidding me...........The 'Old Guard' and 'Houses of  Europe'  will see your throat slit for such conduct, young lady.

Beware..........

LOLOLOL,
Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:29:46 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa1978
It is also why I always advise a new person to make friends with other subs/slaves is just as important as anything so you can know someone who knows what you are going through which is something a dominant just cannot do.

That's not necessarily true.  This is just a very typical "I'm free, I just found this very cool thing and it has me all buzzy and glowy and I NEED to start doing it with someone" novice reaction.  As Marie pointed out- vanilla teens go through it.  If you've been in another sub culture like vampyrism, or SCA stuff, it's the same thing- novices who go off all rushed up and needy and eager puppy like.

We get the identical questions from novice doms as we do novice subs.  And dominants can understand exactly what novice subs are going through- it's partly how some of them are so good at manipulating novice subs (not that the subs don't usually make it pretty easy anyway).

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to lisa1978)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:31:02 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		actually I was PAID as in the food and beverage industry and made quite a bit of money at it.. I was no hash brown slinger (well I dabbled in that too,...lol). It is specialized knowledge.. catering and bar service. I may have to use it again soon enough. No, I am not talking about serving in a BDSM way, I am talking as in working in this industry.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:39:32 AM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline 		~waves hello to juliaoceania~  Server here too, 20 years... On those days when i do not think i could wait on one more person, i imagine myself in a room full of Masters/Mistress who happen to be looking for a new sub... 
 
~LOL~ so silly i know, but it works for me... Allows for me to get through just one more day...  Also it does kinda fill the void for right now...
 
And before i get any "hate mail" i know it is not the same... However, i do like to believe that a public servant does provide some help and knowledge into my submissive nature...

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:44:09 AM   
composer83


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/14/2006
From: Oklahoma City
Status: offline 		i think they're probably just naive & have a lot of preconcieved notions about what this 'lifestyle' is all about.....

i think you hit on something tho, Proprietrix,  a "School of BDSM"......hell, i'd go......hmmm how do i apply for scholarships???

~m

_____________________________


~Love is Pain~


www.myspace.com/iamthediminished

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:46:10 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Well I'm one of the newbies who thanks my lucky stars that I am being trained by someone with whom I am not romantically involved for a three month period of time which has given me a taste of the lifestyle and the protection I needed to keep from making some stupid mistakes.  I interviewed a bunch of Doms on this and another site, most of whom scared the hell out of me with their lists (I tell you, I was completely new to this) and talk of things they were going to do to me on the first meeting.  Fortunately I eventually found an amazing Dom who was subless and we talked for hours until I felt sure of his integrity, intelligence, humor and experience.  We met, and though we realized it wasn't a romantic match for either of us, he did allow me to experience my first play session (I am not a pain slut and had been so fearful of this but it was truly wonderful and left me wanting more). 

Although he continued to email me and was willing to play again in a couple of weeks, I became impatient and wanted to look for another Dom who would give me more attention.  This was when I was foolish and had a horrible experience that I won't repeat here.  I told the first Dom about it and he agreed that something needed to be done, that I did need guidance and protection and yes, training, (and help selecting a permanent situation) and after consideration, he agreed to take me on.

So that's my story.  I have no regrets and nothing but gratitude and devotion for my training Dom who even invited me to live and train full-time with him for two months until I relocate in August.  I wasn't aware that it's a trend, but for me it's been the best decision I ever made. 

sapphire

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:48:24 AM   
lisa1978


Posts: 224
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Kansas City
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa1978
It is also why I always advise a new person to make friends with other subs/slaves is just as important as anything so you can know someone who knows what you are going through which is something a dominant just cannot do.

That's not necessarily true.  This is just a very typical "I'm free, I just found this very cool thing and it has me all buzzy and glowy and I NEED to start doing it with someone" novice reaction.  As Marie pointed out- vanilla teens go through it.  If you've been in another sub culture like vampyrism, or SCA stuff, it's the same thing- novices who go off all rushed up and needy and eager puppy like.

We get the identical questions from novice doms as we do novice subs.  And dominants can understand exactly what novice subs are going through- it's partly how some of them are so good at manipulating novice subs (not that the subs don't usually make it pretty easy anyway).


I agree. It was certainly a gross generalization on my part and that is always wrong, but I do believe it is always helpful to know a few people who have gone through what you have been through as much as two people can go through things the exact same way. Whether BDSM or any regular things all people go through.

Yes, dominants can understand a lot of things, but finding people who have no stake in the relationship as friends or mentors is important. But you are right, dominants that are not actively training you can make good friends and mentors.


_____________________________

It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:50:27 AM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DragonslairHouse
I am a trainer, and I have to say those who have not been under a trainers hands miss something I must say because I have been without searching and I have been with and been trained both have thier pros and cons. But each person to thier own your going to believe what your going to believe. Formalized servitude is rare these days and that is where the old schools come into play... Most these days just want to play and get laid which is so sad because the lifestyle isn't about that at all.  Those are just its rewards.


But there is a difference in training someone formalized servitude and the universal "training a newbie". If I want my submissive to set the table in elite fashion, serve from one side, clear from the other, kneel in a certain manner, etc… then I will teach them those specific skills. Those are particular manners in which I want my partner to do things in our particular relationship, and the two of us do because it pleases us both to do so. That is a far cry different than "training" someone (usually a casual acquaintance or online pal, and usually based on one’s orientation in the lifestyle rather than rapport) how to "be in the lifestyle". There is no way to "be a submissive". It totally and completely depends on the dynamics of individual relationships.

You say you’re a trainer. What made you one? Did you just give yourself that label? Wouldn’t it be more fitting to just say that you are willing to teach people specific things that you like and believe? That you’re willing to teach a submissive the way you like them to serve you, the way you like them to set the dinner table, the way you prefer your submissives to act?
You might train a newbie that they should begin every sentence with "Sir". Then they wander Mr. X’s way to find out that he thinks that’s really ridiculous and redundant. You could train submissives that they are entitled to their limits, then they wander Ms. Domly’s way and find out that she doesn’t even use the word "limit" in her vocabulary because all of her encounters are based on mutual consent in the first place.
There are trainers out there teaching submissives tons of things that simply don’t apply beyond that particular trainer’s relationships. BDSM isn’t a skill that can be trained. It’s interaction between human beings based on diverse dynamics. Just like in vanilla interactions, there are no universal rules to be followed. There are no universal rules to be taught.

You can put all your time effort and hard work into teaching a submissive that she has the right to voice her opinion, she has the right to request that her needs be met, set limits for herself, and be more than someone’s fucktoy or property. That all goes right out the window the instant that she realizes she wants to be objectified, used as a fucktoy, and give up all limits. What was the point? All you really taught her is how you prefer your submissives are treated. And maybe you threw in a dash of shame because now she has this preconceived notion that what she desires is not "ok" according to "her training".

If I’m going to "teach someone the lifestyle", really all I’m teaching them is what I know, what I believe, and what I prefer. And it’s the exact same thing when anyone else teaches someone the lifestyle.
Just like in vanilla relationships, there are no "trainers". Only people who are willing to teach their own preferences and beliefs.
Just like vanilla relationships, there are no ubiquitous truths to be taught.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to DragonslairHouse)
Profile   Post #: 40
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