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RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:52:17 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa1978
Yes, dominants can understand a lot of things, but finding people who have no stake in the relationship as friends or mentors is important. But you are right, dominants that are not actively training you can make good friends and mentors.

Yes we both agree- making friends with all sorts rather than just focusing on "finding the one" is a good idea.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to lisa1978)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 11:58:44 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

Hasn't anyone else read "The Story of O"?

Between pieces of fiction like that, and the emails offering training or mentorship, dom profiles stating a preference for experience but willing to train, and continual references to training, it is no wonder that so many new submissives think that some kind of training program will not only benefit them, but make them more desirable.

*********



Excellent point.  Alot fall into the glitz and glamour trap. Add to your list above the sappy websites that glamourize the myths...The Master riding in on his White stallion cloaked in a robe of purple velvet to rescue the new subbie and whisk her off into the sunset where they can ride on the rainbows of "real trust, deeper love and true commitment" that can be found only in the giving of your "heart, mind, body and soul".  My god that shit is so over-played and so rote, I dont know how anyone falls for that crap anymore.  The fiction, the websites, the profiles, all the glittery online propaganda.... Its a recipe for disaster for someone naive;  young *or* old, it gives them an unrealistic view of wiitwd.    

ok. im off the soap box.  this subject gets me riled up. Im done.

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 12:01:30 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Good question. When I first signed up here I got a lot of offers for training. I really had no idea what that would mean. I had kind of the same opinion. I couldn't imagine why one needed training for what was essentially a relationship. But then I did end up in a "training" relationship.

It was a good choice for me for several reasons. It allowed me to test the waters to see if this was something I wanted without getting emotionally involved with someone. I had a lot of stress about starting a relationship and then finding out I wanted nothing to do with being submissive. I didn't want to take advantage of anyone or mislead them in any way.
It also allowed me to experience a variety of BDSM activities to see what I liked and didn't like and begin to get a better idea of where I fit in and what I wanted.

I don't think it's a bad thing, as long as everyone is clear about what "training" really means. Some may be looking for more of a formalized training in service skills, and others, like me, just wanted a safe testing ground. But I didn't go out looking for a trainer either, nor did I respond to one of the many offers. I was befriended by someone I came to trust and when he suggested how we might enter into a relationship we both agreed that a training type relationship would suit us both.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 12:12:40 PM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		Lots of good answers on here, especially from LA. Far too often, all an offer to train a new sub means is that the Dom will scene with the sub, no strings attached, but if he decides he wants to keep her, he will change the relationship. Yep, all the stuff about sub frenzy is so true.

Look for people that you respect and trust in any relationship and don't worry about your level of training. For goodness sakes, a Dom will train you in what he wants you to do. That is the fun in it. He is not going to be ecstatic because another Dom has taught you to do this and that.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 12:17:19 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLadynite
But the one that SCARES Me the most is when a newbie comes to the dungeon and says.. I will do ANYTHING if you just play with Me. I want to just shake that person and say.. for pitty sake you have NO clue what you could be getting yourself into. WITH some training and guidence from someone, maybe that person would not possibly put themselves in harms way.

If you replace the word "newbie" with "adult exploring different lifestyles", it places the fault exactly where it belongs.
I really have an issue with this "poor little naive innocent newbie" ideology. An adult walks into a dungeon where people are whipping each other and asks to be whipped. Common sense would have it that they might get hurt. It's the same common sense that tells a new base jumper that they might want to learn how to use a parachutte before jumping out of a plane. It falls under "Duh".

quote:

I have in the past more than once.. more times than I can say.. have seen a submissive get swept up by someone that is HUNGERY for power control and really emotionally abuise a newbie, confuse them and actually cause them to flee the building. HOW SAD!!! MORE THAN ONCE!! and all I can think is, that person NOW has a VERY BAD view of this "crazy" lifestyle.

See now, my reaction is more along the lines of "What a gullible fool. I bet they get taken advantage of in their family, job, and every other aspect of their life as well because they lack common sense in dealing with people."
quote:

Had they had any training from a Dominate that is compassionate and can teach and warn them about the possiblities out there.

That was their parent's job. Parents are supposed to teach their kids a real basic concept: there are both good and bad people in the world and you have to learn to deal with both.
quote:

Teach them that they DO have rights as a submissive, that submission is a GIFT to be Given not TAKEN or SNATCHED by a greedy Dominate..

But as I said in an above post, that is *your* belief. Some very healthy D/s-M/s relationships believe that submissives/slaves do *not* have rights. That submission is *not* a gift. And the people in those healthy relationships are perfectly content not living by *your* belief system.
quote:

I have seen a NON pain slut get the hell beat out of them before they were BRAVE enough to say.. STOP.. this is NOT Me..

Again, my thought is "Duh". If someone is physically beating you and you are not enjoying it, you don't just stand there and take it. Vanilla or BDSM - wisen up. You are responsible for your health, safety and well being and you are responsible for removing yourself from situations that threaten you. It's called being an adult.

quote:

you wouldnt push a bird out of a nest.. before its ready to fly.. why put these newbies in the hands of someone who really only believes.. "its all about ME" IT will only set them up for failure and ya know. some submissives cant deal with that kind of experience.. they will just quit the lifestyle all together.


But *we* as lifestylers did *not* "put newbies in the hands of" anyone. They, as adults, chose to explore BDSM. And they, as adults, are responsible for maintaining control of their experiences. If they, as adults, cannot deal with those experiences, and choose to leave the lifestyle, that is their choice, as adults, to make.
I really think it does a disservice to people exploring this lifestyle to assume that "the poor little newbies" are anything less than competent adults responsible and capable of making their own decisions.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to MistressLadynite)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 12:53:16 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I think you are right about what you say as in adults are responsible for their own decisions... on the other hand I think that those with certain experiences share them with other adults so they may avoid pitfalls. Once you have given information then it is up to the adult in charge of their own life to follow advice or reject it, but there is nothing inherently wrong with telling a newbie that there are abusive people in wiiwd, that they should use their instincts, and if it doesnt feel ok then it probably isnt ok. As adults they are ultimately responsible... but there is nothing wrong with warning people or disseminating information either

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 12:54:18 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
Ding Ding Ding Ding..... Training.......
sigh it ~may~ be for some a good thing. 
But here's my take on it when it was presented to me 1 million and 1 times. 
1st, I was not looking for play partners, so why would I choose a trainer? 
2nd, although I ~tend~ to be service oriented, sex makes the world go round. 
So why would I want someone to train me the way he wanted serviced nilla or sexually. 
3rd, from speaking with other sub's who did choose a trainer for 1st Dominant the complaints I heard usually were along the same lines.  They fell when they shouldn't have.  And although
they experienced a lot they lost that edge that made their heart beat faster.  Or in other
words they were now Jaded after the experience, just like us who search for one after
going through (you pick your number). 
Of course I'm not talking about Online, I am referring to those that did this in Real Time,
just like the those of us seeking one.  Only difference is as we pass thru different partners
we experience a little here and a little there. 
Personally when I see Trainer, or Training Academy I barf................. 
just my not so Humble 2 cents worth
Q

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 1:41:36 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix


I see a lot of people coming into the lifestyle saying they are looking for a good trainer or proper training.
It makes me very curious.

Anyone have any insight on this?

I've observed two things at work in this.  One LA has already touched on.  That a "trainer/mentor/protector" these newbies seeks is not what the word literally implies, instead its a euphamism for "temporary dominant".  I think what they seek is a way to do exactly what you suggest, explore a relationship.  Since collars are generally viewed being permanent, lifetime commitments, and "trainers" are not... its a way for them to seek out experience without diving in completely.  Or so they think.

The second thing I've observed relates to the above.  Its a fear of commitment.  As I said, collars are generally viewed as life long and permanent commitments (or at least that's the intention).  For a submissive, and especially a slave, that means putting their life literally in someone elses hands.  Pretty scary for someone new.  And yet, as LA pointed out, they want this very much.  Catch22.

I have wondered of late what would happen if I simply offered a 1 year collar contract.  Someone wishing to be a slave accepts it for a term of one year, at the end of which they can be released or if they wish renegotiate the contract (possibly for a longer term).  I suspect I'd get a good deal more interest, I'm not so sure I'd get the kind of interest I'd want.  But it is something I've been pondering.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 2:01:14 PM   
NINASHARP


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline 		I agree with common sense and learning.. but I was trained for the physical aspects before ever playing as a top. The do's and don't's of using a flogger correctly, how long nipple clamps can be on, the use of suspension cuffs while suspending ones wrists from the ceiling rather than just leather wrist cuffs, and how to use rope bondage.... and should you use a violet wand or tens unit above the waist, and the issues of whether or not metal hand cuffs are ok or not?? That is what I thought training was about. But of course you enlightened me again, and like always make some really valid points.

The one point that you made, I have to disagree.. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix


Again, my thought is "Duh". If someone is physically beating you and you are not enjoying it, you don't just stand there and take it. Vanilla or BDSM - wisen up. You are responsible for your health, safety and well being and you are responsible for removing yourself from situations that threaten you. It's called being an adult.



When someone is tied up and being beaten and they are not enjoying it, and then the dom ignores your safe word, one might have to take it.. and its really not a issue of being an adult. Maybe poor judgement, but one can not always remove themselves physically in this situation until its too late.

Also Off topic a little, I go into a very heavy float when I "bottom", and you could beat the living hell out of me while I'm in the float and I wouldn't know what was happening, which was a huge safety concern for me and my former master who witnessed this far too often.  I have yet to see the float be discussed here, its refered to sub space, but I'm afraid mine goes way deeper than what I've seen described. What if a newbie is like me, and has this happen, and then freaks out over it, because it is a powerful feeling that kinda makes you go what just happened? Wouldn't training benefit them from that?

Nina

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 2:08:39 PM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

I see a lot of people coming into the lifestyle saying they are looking for a good trainer or proper training.
It makes me very curious.

Aren’t relationships more a "learn as you go" kind of thing?

Where/why is it that you’ve gotten the impression that you need training?
Are you looking for someone who is going to teach you how to date other kinky people? Do you not know how to go out and make friends and date?
Do you doubt your own ability to pursue and maintain relationships?

Interesting...  all of your questions here involve training to be in a relationship.  While I think there are lots of people who could benefit from that information, that's not at all what's meant when an s-type asks for training.  As others have mentioned, sub/slave/servant training involves learning specific skills that are all aimed at making life more enjoyable for one's owner/dominant. 

Service-oriented submission revolves around learning useful tasks that serve the needs/desires of one's owner. Books like "Slave Training with Miss Abernathy" outline many areas in which one may please an owner far beyond kinky sex or the ability to take pain.  Service-oriented people look for all sorts of ways other than the usual ones in which to develop more perfect service, like taking classes in cooking, learning massage, reading books on household management, etc. Think of butler training here.
 
quote:
I’m very curious why a person would believe they need training or a trainer to pursue a non-vanilla relationship.
Anyone have any insight on this?

I'm a big fan of Laura Antoniou's fiction.  In "The Slave", there's a quote that explains the point of training far better than I can.  Yes, each relationship will demand different things, but that's beside the point. For those who ache to give good service, training is essential.  This may not be what the OP had in mind when she asked about training, but for a service sub, it's at the heart of submission.

"There were no universal protocols in the Marketplace. There couldn't be, since once the slaves left the hands of their trainers, their behaviors were determined by owners. "But why teach me only one set of movements if there are dozens?" Robin had moaned once during her training. "What if I have to do it all some other way once I'm sold?"

"You are being conditioned to obey," Chris had said, looking into her eyes. "Your obedience is what is being trained, not the positions. When you have new ways to behave, it will hopefully be your obedience which will enable you to learn and please your Owner." And he had run her through the motions over and over, until she did obey instantly, learning to watch his hands, the slightest shift in his body, or even his eyes..."

from The Slave, by Laura Antoniou

~Holly


_____________________________

I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

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RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 2:52:39 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

I’m very curious why a person would believe they need training or a trainer to pursue a non-vanilla relationship.
Anyone have any insight on this?


because Thumpers mother says to eat your greens

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 3:30:12 PM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix


I see a lot of people coming into the lifestyle saying they are looking for a good trainer or proper training.
It makes me very curious.
Anyone have any insight on this?

This is an excellent question. I've been collared, released, I've played...yadda, yadda..but for some reason, I still feel like a novice. Perhaps it's because I'm still learning? I guess it would depend on the relationship and I'm glad you brought up this point. It's given me something to "chew" on.
Peace.
Irish
IBN



_____________________________


What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 3:47:42 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		Proprietrix,

A lot depends on the reason you're exploring this lifestyle. We do training for newcomers relatively often. The reason is because for some, this lifestyle is more than just "kinky dating", and they're not here for a -relationship-. These individuals come here to learn specific forms of service, specific skills in "fancy" service, or specific protocols related to certain styles of life that are under the general umbrella of BDSM (like Gor and now, Klashaan, as well as some aspects of geisha training, temple sexual priestess training, spiritual service training, etc.)

Admittedly, there is no real reason to seek out training if the purpose of getting involved in the lifestyle is a personal relationship. However, there are people who are not interested in developing a personal relationship, but desire to serve, even if they don't know or are not going to be in a long-term situation with a given Master/Mistress, etc. Those individuals are often at a significant advantage if they are trained in a broad range of service protocols, especially if the training is either generalized so that it can be customized (like training as a butler or dresser), or very specific, so that it is interesting to a small and unique sub-segment of the BDSM population (like Gor or pony-play).

Before anyone makes a decision about training, he or she needs to know -why- s/he is here. If it is to get personal, with no real clear idea about a style of BDSM that one is interested in, then training won't help. Find out what one likes -first-, find someone who shares one's likes and dislikes, and -then- worry about getting training (usually from the person who takes responsibility for the other BDSM aspects in one's life.) If one knows what one is looking for, and it fits the parameters of a choice that would benefit from training, by all means, explore trainers. Seek someone local (most things that benefit from training really need someone -watching- to make sure that proper form and movements are performed, and to provide constructive reinforcement and correction), and seek someone with a good reputation. Ask lots of questions, and make sure that -the trainer's- goals match yours (that the trainer is really interested in training, not looking to get free sex or start a relationship.)

Da'Avatar ZWD

www.klashaan.org

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 6/8/2006 3:52:33 PM >

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"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 4:22:32 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I have wondered of late what would happen if I simply offered a 1 year collar contract.  Someone wishing to be a slave accepts it for a term of one year, at the end of which they can be released or if they wish renegotiate the contract (possibly for a longer term).  I suspect I'd get a good deal more interest, I'm not so sure I'd get the kind of interest I'd want.  But it is something I've been pondering.


I may have my history wrong here, but I seem to remember something similar being a part of the Scottish (?) culture a few hundred years ago. To me it makes sense in some ways.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 4:28:39 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		I've been reading stuff on-line about this lifestyle for a long time now. (Almost 10 years, ye gads!) Ever since I put up my first profile 4 years ago I've had Doms tell me that they didn't want someone who was "untrained". Just like when I was looking for my first job and being told I needed experience to get a job, I wondered "how am I supposed to get trained if no one will train me?"

One of the first questions I tend to be asked is "what do you particularly like?" Well, since I have very little real time experience, how am I supposed to know? If I've never experienced a flogging or caning or spanking or nipple clamps or knife play, how am I supposed to tell you if it's something I want?

I can see where having a trainer who will give one experience with a variety of different implements used within this lifestyle could be very useful. Yes, I could probably play with a lot of different people, but to find one or two people I could trust would make more sense to me.

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 4:32:01 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I think that many cultures had indentured servitude as well as apprenticeships.

Not unique to the scottish.

Jus' me,
Ron


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 4:32:40 PM   
servicing


Posts: 18
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Lol, think you all are being way too harsh and judgemental.  Freakin "noobie frenzy"  Lol, oh I don't like the word training so if you use it you must be stupid.

Training can be part of discipline.  It can be used for operant conditioning.  I certainly would like to be trained to please my Dom.  Talked with a really nice lady yesterday who said 3 times she loved mentoring.  Nothing wrong with someone new seeking someone who'll teach them.  They certainly aren't misrepresenting.

Freakin A, get off the high horse.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 4:59:13 PM   
tade


Posts: 663
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Tampa Bay, Florida
Status: offline 		I personally get a kick out of the thought of someone needing to be trianed in the first place. Sometimes in this crazy life we all love to lead there seems to be a tendency to take ourselves way to seriously Dominant, submissive or or otherwise. This to me seems like more of the same. If someone else took our sub and taught her to serve us they would be teaching her what exactly?  How my wife takes her coffee in the mornings? Just how hot I like my showers? Most of the things they know about serving us were learned by actually serving us. I don't think I would trust some of these idiots that sit on their high horses with training my dog, much less someone as important to us as our subs.

_____________________________

I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson

It's a magical world Hobbes 'ole buddy. Let's go explorin'~ Calvin

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 5:21:50 PM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zumala


Some feel they are dominant, but have no practical skills or experience, so they seek training.  Submissives know they must 'act' submissive to be acceptable, but what one Dom wants another might not OR they aren't sure what actions a submissive should take, so they want training.
 


This line jumped out at me. I don't believe a submissive has to 'act' submissive to be acceptable. I'm a submissive, but I do not put on a submissive act ever. I am simply me and you either like me or you don't. Why put on an act or change into what you think, believe, or are told you need to be, to be acceptable? Doesn't make sense. People are people and not everyone is gonna click. Different people have different likes, dislikes and preferences. There is no set certain a way a submissive has to act to be acceptable.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to zumala)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? - 6/8/2006 5:25:22 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		By the nature of being submissive the newbies fall for the training line.  I fell for the i'll protect you line the first time i heard it out of fear then i realized i needed to protect myself from the wannabe lol.  Problem is coming into this world even if you want it sooo bad is frightening especially when you hear the bad things that can happen such as the guy in KS than inticed the ladies over the net to their deaths.  Don't know if he is nilla or what but they died so what is really needed is use of the brain equipment gave you and read, read, read.  Training ummm what a glorious thing to have with the right Dom and how sad to have it from the wrong One.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 60
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