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RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:02:58 AM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Not sure how you opt out of healthcare besides hoping you don't get sick.

You can opt out of the system by becoming self-insured. I do not know if you will be able to do this under ObamaCare since this is an implementation detail. When you are self-insured it means you have enough money to cover your medical expenses and you pay out of pocket. ClassIsInSession has opted to pay out of pocket rather than deal with an insurance company. This is not a bad way to go if you can afford to do so. You could buy insurance with a very high deductible and rely on what money you have in savings to take care of the usual expenses. That way most of the time you don't have to put up with the BS.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 41

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:06:50 AM

DomYngBlk

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Something tells me if he got really sick sick....and he ran through a few million he'd still want to be able to drop into the hospital for care. Typical. Its the "I am not for it till I need it" group.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 42

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:10:00 AM

BenevolentM

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Much of what we are discussing is also applicable to automobile insurance. If you can afford it, you can buy automobile insurance with a very high deductible and if there is an accident, you pay for everything out of pocket. It is a paradigm, a way of thinking and doing business, that touches much of our lives that we are discussing.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 43

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:11:23 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir
There are many people who don't consider birth control and abortion "healthcare" because fertility and pregnancy are not diseases.

that may be so but in Canada women are in control of those decisions (regardless of if they are "healthcare" or not).. Since I am not an American, I dont really know all the ins and outs of how those things work here, other than reading the posts about it (like various states requiring women to watch vids), etc, and various other govt intrusions into what are (imo) personal decisions..

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Post #: 44

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:14:17 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Something tells me if he got really sick sick....and he ran through a few million he'd still want to be able to drop into the hospital for care. Typical. Its the "I am not for it till I need it" group.

That is why it is important to have medical insurance even if you can afford most of the usual expenses out of pocket. What you do is buy insurance with a high deductible that will cover the it is running into more money than I earn in a year case.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 45

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:19:58 AM

tj444

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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Something tells me if he got really sick sick....and he ran through a few million he'd still want to be able to drop into the hospital for care. Typical. Its the "I am not for it till I need it" group.

I dont have a problem with Canada's national healthcare system and the cost for that (the actual costs are half what the same procedures, meds etc cost in the US today), but I simply DO NOT trust the US govt. They seem to find the hardest, most complicated and costly way to do anything and everything they get their sticky little fingers into.. I am in charge of what happens to me and I dont want the US govt making decisions about my healthcare, period, cuz i know what they decide will not be what is in my best interest, only I can decide that.. i dont think i am alone in that opinion of the US govt..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 46

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:34:42 AM

BenevolentM

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I am now further into the Peter Schiff's view of Obamacare video that was provided by tj444. I don't buy his rebuttal to burden is not a relevant criteria when determining whether or not something is a tax or a penalty. When he said income taxes are high, for the most part they are not prohibitively high though they may be uncomfortably high. I agree that ObamaCare may be pollyannish, but the Supreme Court apparently feels that the law has merit. Whether or not the law got the particulars right is something they are willing to overlook. As I pointed out in Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation the Supreme Court was sold on the idea of hope, the hope for a better future.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 47

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:35:09 AM

DomYngBlk

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Then why are you here if it is so horrible? Canadian Gov't have some sort of corner on taking care of its citizens? Think the Native Population would argue that point.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 48

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:37:19 AM

itsSIRtou

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the unspoken other problem with HC is the inflated costs at the top. With the their salaries in the millions with no limits its no wonder that somebody's had to do SOMETHING to control the system..... Ive said many times that if simply putting some kinds of limits on the upper management pay in HC, there'd be a ton of savings and it'd go a LONG way into making HC better by putting more of the money into the hospital care of the people themselves.

< Message edited by itsSIRtou -- 7/13/2012 9:39:36 AM >

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What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 49

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:43:26 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Then why are you here if it is so horrible? Canadian Gov't have some sort of corner on taking care of its citizens? Think the Native Population would argue that point.

I was disputing that a national healtcare system will be the precurser to being forced to consume monsanto food products, etc.. as ClassinSession put forth.. Canada doesnt have a corner on taking care of its citizens (I dont think I said it did), it does have a decent healthcare system tho..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 50

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:45:33 AM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I don't buy his rebuttal to burden is not a relevant criteria when determining whether or not something is a tax or a penalty.

It appears that I've contradicted myself here. Mandatory automobile insurance might not be considered by the government as a tax because the Supreme Court was disingenuous. There is no question in my mind that mandatory automobile insurance is a tax.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 51

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:47:32 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Then why are you here if it is so horrible? Canadian Gov't have some sort of corner on taking care of its citizens? Think the Native Population would argue that point.

I was disputing that a national healtcare system will be the precurser to being forced to consume monsanto food products, etc.. as ClassinSession put forth.. Canada doesnt have a corner on taking care of its citizens (I dont think I said it did), it does have a decent healthcare system tho..

But if you have the choice why would you stay someplace where you don't trust the Gov't not to do you harm?

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 52

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:51:18 AM

vincentML

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ClassIsInSession

The solution to welfare is very simple. There are plenty of simple tasks that could be performed at a kitchen table, addressing envelopes, mailing government letters, cleaning up streets or parks. All of these things could be implemented much like community service is for a number of hours a month for those receiving welfare benefits. It is the fact that choosing a particular lifestyle guarantees a check with no other commitments that makes it compelling enough for some to want to ride it indefinitely. Requiring community service would be a value exchange, which would also build self esteem and add the incentive to be productive.

I agree to some extent with your reasoning, it's basically saying that rather than being off or on, you gradually remove the crutch rather than making it a sink or swim equation.

Your comments here are screamingly funny and idiotic and betray your ignorance of the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families program established by welfare 'reform' in 1996. You are fighting a battle from the last century. FFS, man get up to date.

(in reply to ClassIsInSession)

Post #: 53

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:51:53 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I am now further into the Peter Schiff's view of Obamacare video that was provided by tj444. I don't buy his rebuttal to burden is not a relevant criteria when determining whether or not something is a tax or a penalty. When he said income taxes are high, for the most part they are not prohibitively high though they may be uncomfortably high. I agree that ObamaCare may be pollyannish, but the Supreme Court apparently feels that the law has merit. Whether or not the law got the particulars right is something they are willing to overlook. As I pointed out in Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation the Supreme Court was sold on the idea of hope, the hope for a better future.

What scares me about it is that the govt is in bed with Big Pharma, the insurance corps and HMOs.. the profit motive will be the downfall of Obamacare, imo.. In Canada, the costs are regulated by the govt, its not the corps that dictate to govt like it is here.. The idea of "hope" is all well and good but in reality it will be "profit" that will run the show, imo..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 54

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:54:47 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
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They play games. Is it a tax or a penalty? It is a tax and a penalty. It isn't either-or. Take a class in logic! The distinction is artificial.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 55

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 9:56:20 AM

lady4dad

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/9/2011
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from my knowledge most if not all European countries have both a health care system including mandatory health insurance and mandatory car insurance.
In Germany there is a mandatory health insurance since 1883 and no government from monarchy to nazi to to communist to democracy ever intended to abolish it ever again - and I know some German expats working in the US who prefer to board a plane back home to get teeth fixed or other necessary medical treatment

seems to be because of costs here plus plane ticket are still cheaper than getting treatment in the US ...

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 56

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 10:00:09 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Something tells me if he got really sick sick....and he ran through a few million he'd still want to be able to drop into the hospital for care. Typical. Its the "I am not for it till I need it" group.

I dont have a problem with Canada's national healthcare system and the cost for that (the actual costs are half what the same procedures, meds etc cost in the US today), but I simply DO NOT trust the US govt. They seem to find the hardest, most complicated and costly way to do anything and everything they get their sticky little fingers into.. I am in charge of what happens to me and I dont want the US govt making decisions about my healthcare, period, cuz i know what they decide will not be what is in my best interest, only I can decide that.. i dont think i am alone in that opinion of the US govt..

Individual Mandate aside, the ACA is designed to be a free market system of regional exchanges in which Health Insurance Companies will participate. It is still a private Insurance system. In what part of the Law do you find that the US Government will be making decisions about your healthcare? Or are you just being paranoid?

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 57

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 10:02:50 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Something tells me if he got really sick sick....and he ran through a few million he'd still want to be able to drop into the hospital for care. Typical. Its the "I am not for it till I need it" group.

I dont have a problem with Canada's national healthcare system and the cost for that (the actual costs are half what the same procedures, meds etc cost in the US today), but I simply DO NOT trust the US govt. They seem to find the hardest, most complicated and costly way to do anything and everything they get their sticky little fingers into.. I am in charge of what happens to me and I dont want the US govt making decisions about my healthcare, period, cuz i know what they decide will not be what is in my best interest, only I can decide that.. i dont think i am alone in that opinion of the US govt..

That pretty much sums it up for me as well.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 58

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 10:05:49 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

But if you have the choice why would you stay someplace where you don't trust the Gov't not to do you harm?

My choice to stay is only temporary so I really dont have any "skin" in the game here. I have said that before in various posts. I do plan to leave but I wont be going back to Canada to live there, I will go somewhere else, in an attempt to find my "home".. I dont have any ties anywhere anymore so I am a bit of a gypsy..

Even tho Canada is a freer country that the US, it is still not free enough for me..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 59

RE: ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance - 7/13/2012 10:07:49 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lady4dad

from my knowledge most if not all European countries have both a health care system including mandatory health insurance and mandatory car insurance.
In Germany there is a mandatory health insurance since 1883 and no government from monarchy to nazi to to communist to democracy ever intended to abolish it ever again - and I know some German expats working in the US who prefer to board a plane back home to get teeth fixed or other necessary medical treatment

seems to be because of costs here plus plane ticket are still cheaper than getting treatment in the US ...

Interesting. A freind of mine lives in Germany. He waited until he came back to the states to get his teeth fixed because the insurance he carried didn't cover gas and they wouldn't let him pay out of pocket for it. Now I can understand saying that certain things won't be covered, but I don't understand why you can't then pay for what it doesn't cover.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to lady4dad)

Post #: 60

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