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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 10:42:38 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

So it is better to curst the dark than light a candle.


Exactly. Candles in the age of electricity. That is a share of power?

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 11:26:21 AM   
atursvcMaam


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Look, if I tell you that you can't make it or succeed then I am a racist. If you tell this to yourself, then it is a self fulfulling prophecy. You have a much better chance of being susccessful if you think you can. No promises, just opportunities.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 11:28:19 AM   
mnottertail


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCcaP5z4xbg

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 11:36:06 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Look, if I tell you that you can't make it or succeed then I am a racist. If you tell this to yourself, then it is a self fulfulling prophecy. You have a much better chance of being susccessful if you think you can. No promises, just opportunities.


Equal opportunities?

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 11:54:12 AM   
ClassIsInSession


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Refer to my earlier post vincentML, in some cases better opportunities.

But let's be clear, there is really no such thing as an "equal" opportunity. There are opportunities. Sometimes you can't make the cut because you have the wrong skills or the wrong personality, or the wrong education, or you don't have the money to invest, or you were a day late.

If there is one thing I've learned in life it is that persistence overcomes resistance. If you have a strong enough resolve you can overcome whatever challenges you encounter. Life isn't always easy, but we have the time and resources we have. I've survived 3 near fatal car accidents, cancer, MRSA staph, bankruptcy and divorce. I don't say that to whine, but rather to encourage anyone reading. No matter what hurdles you face, you can jump them. That begins with having a strong sense of self and a refusal to be anything less.




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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 3:11:16 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ClassIsInSession

Refer to my earlier post vincentML, in some cases better opportunities.

But let's be clear, there is really no such thing as an "equal" opportunity. There are opportunities. Sometimes you can't make the cut because you have the wrong skills or the wrong personality, or the wrong education, or you don't have the money to invest, or you were a day late.

If there is one thing I've learned in life it is that persistence overcomes resistance. If you have a strong enough resolve you can overcome whatever challenges you encounter. Life isn't always easy, but we have the time and resources we have. I've survived 3 near fatal car accidents, cancer, MRSA staph, bankruptcy and divorce. I don't say that to whine, but rather to encourage anyone reading. No matter what hurdles you face, you can jump them. That begins with having a strong sense of self and a refusal to be anything less.



Couldn't have said it better.

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 3:33:26 PM   
atursvcMaam


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What is it that you think I can do that you can't do?

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 3:50:40 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

But let's be clear, there is really no such thing as an "equal" opportunity. There are opportunities. Sometimes you can't make the cut because you have the wrong skills or the wrong personality, or the wrong education, or you don't have the money to invest, or you were a day late.


By all means, CS, let's put to rest the great myth of equal opportunity. On that we can agree. As I ponder on it there seems to be a history of group opportunities and limitations. I wonder if we can agree on this. Let me sort out my thinking. Irish Americans in the 19th C had two or three major avenues of opportunity: ward politics, police or firemen jobs, and the catholic priesthood. Jewish Americans found pathways through entertainment mainly ~vaudeville, television, hollywood films, and literature [a few] Italian Americans found fame in sports [baseball and boxing esp] and entertainment [music mostly] African Americans had a seperate baseball league but were admitted to the White leagues in 1947. Today, they are quite established [even dominant] in sports and successful in entertainment. Hispanic Americans also in sports and entertainment. All of these groups had shop keepers and politicians who were successful. In each ethnic group some became highly successful and very rich. Most remained middle class or lower, I think.

But what's missing here? How many kids from these groups were admitted to Trinity School or Horace Mann in New York, Phillips Academy Andover, Phillips Exeter Academy, or the Groton School . . . all with student/faculty ratios of 5:1 and established pipelines to MIT and Stanford? And how many children from these ethnic groups end up graduating from Ivy League Colleges? I am suggesting here that opportunity in America is still way skewed to white and rich. There is opportunity but there are limitations. It all depends upon where you started from. Most do not have the advantages that a few have.

Do I expect any different? No. Probably not. But I would like to see us cease blaming poor children for the limitations they face. In many cases the barriers are overwhelming and masked by the successes of the relatively few in each group.

Let's face up to the fact that we have a Class System that impacts opportunity in America.

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 4:38:00 PM   
atursvcMaam


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At the risk of being redundant, if you KNOW that you can't, then you probably won't. If you think that you can you have a better chance. The limits are not as unbrekable as you indicate, as shown by our current president who claims to have graduated from Harvard. There are 2 myths cracked. Eric Holder from Columbia, and Columbia Law School, I realize has only made it as far as Attorney General. Condoleeza Rice Masters from Notre Dame. Clarence Thomas Legal Education at Yale, Colin Powell, MBA @ George Washington University.
You must be right there are no opportunities and nowhere to go in this country. Why can't you do what any of these folks did or do.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 6:39:40 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

i am clueless


Well, if you say so . . .

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 6:51:36 PM   
atursvcMaam


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Yep, clueless removes a lot of preconceived notions and obstacles. Try it, it's fun.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 7:15:47 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

Anyone else find it perversely entertaining that the thread seems to have evolved into a handful of (so far I know) white folks holding forth about how African Americans should feel about their own history and prospects?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to atursvcMaam)
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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 8:34:42 PM   
atursvcMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Anyone else find it perversely entertaining that the thread seems to have evolved into a handful of (so far I know) white folks holding forth about how African Americans should feel about their own history and prospects?


a bit, i have had this conversation in mixed company (Black, White, other, young, old, blind, crippled and crazy) for 35 to 40 years. i would be concerned if there were no quiet viewers in the Users Viewing section of this page, and/or if there were no people perving my profile though this. In my personal history if I overstep reality this community will let me know how wrong I am, in public or in private message.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 10:23:50 PM   
ClassIsInSession


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It is an interesting point. There are certainly no signs posted that dictate who can enter the discussion.

I welcome friendship and conversation with anyone...without limitation. I only ask that if you'd like to converse, we do so in an air of mutual respect.

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 11:25:08 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ClassIsInSession

Refer to my earlier post vincentML, in some cases better opportunities.

But let's be clear, there is really no such thing as an "equal" opportunity. There are opportunities. Sometimes you can't make the cut because you have the wrong skills or the wrong personality, or the wrong education, or you don't have the money to invest, or you were a day late.

If there is one thing I've learned in life it is that persistence overcomes resistance. If you have a strong enough resolve you can overcome whatever challenges you encounter. Life isn't always easy, but we have the time and resources we have. I've survived 3 near fatal car accidents, cancer, MRSA staph, bankruptcy and divorce. I don't say that to whine, but rather to encourage anyone reading. No matter what hurdles you face, you can jump them. That begins with having a strong sense of self and a refusal to be anything less.





How about equal justice under law?

How about an age old history of red-lining and predatory sup-prime legal loan sharking?

How about legacy programs that basically garauntees a university/college graduate`s kid gets accepted.....which for some reason favors whites .......a kind of secret white affirmative action..

How about being profided as a drug adled criminal up to no good and shot to death.....then charactor asassinated in the MSM for being black or seen with Al Sharpon.

How about DWB?

http://articles.cnn.com/1999-12-23/us/racial.profiling_1_minority-drivers-troopers-state-police?_s=PM:US

And other racial profiling?

http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/driving-while-black-racial-profiling-our-nations-highways

'Racial profiling is based on the premise that most drug offenses are committed by minorities. The premise is factually untrue, but it has nonetheless become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because police look for drugs primarily among African Americans and Latinos, they find a disproportionate number of them with contraband. Therefore, more minorities are arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and jailed, thus reinforcing the perception that drug trafficking is primarily a minority activity. This perception creates the profile that results in more stops of minority drivers. At the same time, white drivers receive far less police attention, many of the drug dealers and possessors among them go unapprehended, and the perception that whites commit fewer drug offenses than minorities is perpetuated. And so the cycle continues."

When I talk with my conservative friends in person,I sometimes pop the question..."would you trade place with a black person and have to live in our society as a black man(or woman)?"

I NEVER get an affirmative response.

I would never trade places with even Michael Jordon.....even for all the money and fun Michael Jordon has.

Not in today`s America.



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/16/2012 11:29:18 PM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 11:32:57 PM   
ClassIsInSession


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How about reading back on my other posts and seeing where I acknowledged some of that behavior.

How about the profiling that happens right now that has more to do with political affiliation or "gun ownership" and a whole slew of other "profiling" criteria?

How about when affirmative action prevents a caucasion from getting the job he or she needs to help feed their family, even if they were the more qualified candidate?

I'm not claiming there isn't ever bias, and often the bias isn't fair. But it isn't always about being african-american. And again, you have to work with what you've got. Sometimes you have to succeed in spite of it, and that takes resolve.

In cases where law enforcement over steps the boundaries of their job and violates the law, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows, you have no argument with me over that. And that is true whether it's an african-american victim or a retired vet or a homeless white guy. And there are recent examples of all of the above. Police brutality isn't something that should ever be tolerated.

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 11:51:46 PM   
Owner59


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Feeling put upon........ here?






"How about when affirmative action prevents a caucasion from getting the job he or she needs to help feed their family, even if they were the more qualified candidate?"

Reverse discrimination is an urban myth and a hoax.

That`s like saying fishermen are in danger b/c one out a million fish pulls them overboard.......




< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/16/2012 11:52:17 PM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: The African American Community - 7/16/2012 11:57:37 PM   
ClassIsInSession


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Apparently you believe it's the Easter bunny because you've never experienced it. And the term "reverse discrimination" isn't a valid term. Discrimination is discrimination. The criteria for that discrimination may vary, but it doesn't require a change of terminology. I know quite a few people right now that are highly qualified in their careers that can't get hired simply because they are older as well. Is it ever admitted? No of course not, but is it true? Yes.

And no, I am not feeling put upon, though I often feel the condescension and bitterness that seems to ooze like slime from quite a few liberals when they interject in a debate. It's amazing to me that so many here can't separate disagreement with an idea from personal stabs at a person's character. But then, that reveals quite a lot about a person's character.

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RE: The African American Community - 7/17/2012 12:26:54 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Anyone else find it perversely entertaining that the thread seems to have evolved into a handful of (so far I know) white folks holding forth about how African Americans should feel about their own history and prospects?



Too bad I can find no 'entertainment' value at all in someone starting a thread on a subject in which he has no clue whatsoever, but rather just wants to socially and publicly wank himself, and expect the rest of us to go along and abide such self indulgence. Almost as funny as clueless white people holding forth about how African Americans should feel about their own history and prospects. Almost.

Lest it escaped notice, that is exactly what the OP proposes.

And no, such hubris and ignorance will not be let off so easily or cavalierly here.

Europeans of the day wanted their sugar and their cotton on the cheap, and in great abundance. The slave trade was the greatest money maker for Europeans, back in the day. So much money to be made from such trade, and then much 'humanistic' and righteous indignation and political hay to be made from prohibiting slavery where it was not economically feasible to begin with, on the continent or on that weird-shaped island, in whatever home country. Export immorality, keep the home country sparkling clean, that's how it worked. (Starve Ireland nearly to death, long before the potato famine, but that's for another day. Who needs Africa to prove 'cultural superiority' when you've got Ireland. Ban the native language and go from there, either case. Nietzsche had it right: cultural superiority is won on the battle field).

Same thing at work, to this day, 150 yrs. behind the times, as evidenced by the OP. Gott in Himmel, don't acknowledge your own region of the country in their contribution to this matter, whatever you do.

People outside the southern US see two black people in their life prior to adulthood, if that. But they need a class field trip for the experience. Unless you were in Boston in the '70s, where police escort of buses was required due to parents' throwing bricks at the buses. So, how's it going up there, upstate NY? Massachusetts? What say you, Europe? Yes, THOSE, all the aforementioned, are the white folks we really need to listen to in this matter, innit? Listen up, black people.

So then, yes, an overabundance of people in the US and in Europe are utterly clueless in the matter.

Are we scratching new ground here or anything?







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/17/2012 1:26:47 AM >

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RE: The African American Community - 7/17/2012 1:27:56 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Anyone else find it perversely entertaining that the thread seems to have evolved into a handful of (so far I know) white folks holding forth about how African Americans should feel about their own history and prospects?



Too bad I can find no 'entertainment' value at all in someone starting a thread on a subject in which he has no clue whatsoever, but rather just wants to socially and publicly wank himself, and expect the rest of us to go along and abide such self indulgence. Almost as funny as clueless white people holding forth about how African Americans should feel about their own history and prospects. Almost.

Lest it escaped notice, that is exactly what the OP proposes.

And no, such hubris and ignorance will not be let off so easily or cavalierly here.

Europeans of the day wanted their sugar and their cotton on the cheap, and in great abundance. The slave trade was the greatest money maker for Europeans, back in the day. Slave owning and slave trade was outlawed in South Carolina until England forced the issue otherwise. The first Dutch boat shipment load of indentured servants to Virginia included black and white people, none of them chattel slaves, just so you know. Of course you didn't know that. The victors write the history. So much money to be made from the trade, and then much 'humanistic' and righteous indignation and political hay to be made from prohibiting slavery where it was not economically feasible to begin with, on the continent or on that weird-shaped island, in whatever home country.

Export immorality, keep the home country sparkling clean, that's how it worked. (But then, Ireland being so close to hand; starve that smaller island nearly to death, decades and centuries before the potato famine, but that's for another day. Who needs Africa to prove 'cultural superiority' else wise when you've got Ireland. And we're still led astray that 'we' were only fighting for purpose of putting down the Popish and Romische Franzoesich ... {Pissed England off greatly that Keltics wrote better than dull wit Brits, greatly ... To this day, how many people know who 'The Orangemen' are? Right ... IRA are the only 'terroriss' here, sorry, don't look elsewhere} Ban the native language and go from there, either case. Nietzsche had it right: cultural superiority is won on the battlefield).

Same thing at work, to this day, 150 yrs. behind the times, as evidenced by the OP. Gott in Himmel, don't acknowledge your own region of the country in their contribution to this matter, whatever you do.

People outside the southern US (other than those who actually reside in the largest cities) see two black people in their life prior to adulthood, if that. But they need a class field trip for the experience. Unless you were in Boston in the '70s, where police escort of buses was required for more than a year, due to parents' throwing bricks at the buses. So, how's it going up there, upstate NY? Massachusetts? Inveterate witch burners? What say you, Europe? Yes, THOSE, all the aforementioned, are the white folks we really need to listen to in this matter, innit? Listen up, black people.

So then, yes, an overabundance of people in the US and in Europe are utterly clueless in the matter. No worries; nothing that inherent hubris and arrogance in which any conjured superiority convolution cannot dispense with whatever simple concept regarding anything not understood, as in any other matter. These are the same people who don't know that droughts are caused by lack of rain, having it in their mind that it is rather due to lack of apple trees.

The children of witch burners, understand.

We're not speaking of brightest bulbs in the lamp, here.

Are we scratching new ground in this or anything?





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/17/2012 2:26:07 AM >

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