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RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 6:00:12 PM   
MsLadySue


Posts: 2254
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline 		Subs and slaves always have the choice to submit or not and to whom.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 6:08:35 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: deeplove
I'd really appreciate your opinion regarding this matter because a lot of people are confuse about this important thing ...

No. Nobody is "confused" because there is no right answer. What is true is that there are a lot of folks who have a lot of differing viewpoints.

Mine personally? I look for two things when I think of "master" and "slave".

A) A sense of ownership
And by that I do not mean "we're kinky dating". I mean "property".

B) A TPE relationship
And by that I do not mean "well.. sort of kind of total except, of course, for all the obvious things which nobody would consider as reasonable yada yada." What I mean is "total". Job, health, children, food, drugs, friends, sexual partners, etc.... all a part of "total".

Both (a) and (b) above are not easily quantifiable... more in the "I know it when I see it" sort of category. But how does that help you and or all the confused people out there? I don't actually think my own personal definition has any meaning whatsoever outside of my own relationship. Nor do I care one bit about your definition. What I know is what it takes for me to feel a sense of "owning" Carol and at the point she is "owned human property" then the word we use for that is "slave".



This...it's the same for our relationship as well.

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Nothing has changed
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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 6:33:41 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Except that if what you demanded was unreasonable, you would expect Carol to drag you to the doctor to see what made you change. I'm talking about demanded a murder-suicide pact, kidnapping strangers etc. Stuff that is not at all the kinds of things that allow her to give total trust to you.

Anyway, my usual definition, at least in how most people online use it is as follows:
A sub is someone who won't do what I will do, and a slave is someone who will do what I won't do.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 6:48:14 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Except that if what you demanded was unreasonable, you would expect Carol to drag you to the doctor to see what made you change. I'm talking about demanded a murder-suicide pact, kidnapping strangers etc. Stuff that is not at all the kinds of things that allow her to give total trust to you.

No I would not. If I gave Carol some "unreasonable" command I'd expect her to obey. If I failed to dominate her then I'd expect to lose a slave and almost certainly a wife.

A sub is someone who won't do what I will do, and a slave is someone who will do what I won't do.
*laughs* yeah that. At least online I certainly agree. In the real world the whole question is pointless. I either like hanging out in someone's living room or I do not. What labels anyone applies to anything are beyond pointless. Insofar as me evaluating some female, I can't for the life of me figure out why I'd care whether she labeled herself as vanilla, sub, or slave. Either I can dominate her or I cannot. If I can at all, then it's a pretty safe bet she'd be "slave for me" if I wanted that.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 7:03:34 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Really? My rules include taking care of him. Which means if I suspected he had personality changes due to a stroke or Lyme's disease or such, then I should disobey his newer order in order to follow the more important one. It helps having some rules be more important than others.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 7:36:43 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deeplove

I'd really appreciate your opinion regarding this matter because a lot of people are confuse about this important thing ...


Everything


And nothing

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 7:53:48 PM   
Endivius


Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline 		the difference between a sub and slave....


Hm...



This is a tough one...




Is this a gorean trick question?....




I would have to say.....





Perspective.





< Message edited by Endivius -- 7/17/2012 7:54:41 PM >

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Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 8:04:48 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Really? My rules include taking care of him.

*nods*

Our rules:

What Jeff says is right, is right.
What Jeff says is good, is good.
What Jeff says is proper, is proper.

... all the way up until Carol figures I no longer have her respect.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 8:09:09 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deeplove

I'd really appreciate your opinion regarding this matter because a lot of people are confuse about this important thing ...



It's not important. And no one is confused.

People just define it in different ways. So no matter what definition you come up with the next person you meet might have a different one. So forget semantics and labels, and just approach people as a person, not as a label.

(in reply to deeplove)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 8:17:59 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		As is so evident from many threads like this, people cannot seem to make their own decisions regarding what role they are.

They seem to think that being involved in BDSM has a rule book.

I never hear anyone who is vanilla asking the difference between a being a girlfriend or friend with benefit or a wife.



(in reply to seekingreality)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 8:50:03 PM   
deeplove


Posts: 22
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		i like the puppet11 definition ...i dont know if it is the right ...

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 9:02:24 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

I never hear anyone who is vanilla asking the difference between a being a girlfriend or friend with benefit or a wife.



I actually had a girl from my women's church group ask, what's the difference between a boyfriend, significant other and partner. LOL...so apparently some ask that too.

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Nothing has changed
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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 10:28:05 PM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
The only important definitions are:

A: How you define yourself.

B: How your significant other(s) defines you.

I can almost guarantee, given the diversity on this scene, that will be told you're a true slave, not a true slave, a true submissive, not a true submissive, not any of these things, and so on. I certainly have been subject to my own and others variable definitions.

My advice would be: stop thinking about it in terms of labels, and start thinking in terms of both what you provide, and what you seek from another.

(in reply to deeplove)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/17/2012 11:02:09 PM   
kittycake


Posts: 42
Joined: 3/1/2012
Status: offline 		I'm not really interested in the semantics. When someone identifies themselves as a sub, or a slave, I become curious about what that means to them.

I know a lot of people on the s-side of things that go back and forth between the terms just fine. I consider myself to be more of a sub than a slave, because in my definition, a submissive submits within agreed upon rules, while a slave gives up total control. That's just my way of thinking, for me, and has no bearing on anyone else's definition.

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All my soul follows you, love encircles you and I live in being yours. -- Robert Browning


His kitten

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 5:12:20 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		It really is what you want to call yourself and for what reasons, there is no real distinction in relationships because all are different.

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'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 5:29:30 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Using FR:

I *do* think there is a difference between a sub and a slave. The thing is, the differences are based on my own definition and interpretation. In other words, the differences are very individualized and personal.

When it comes to the (BDSM) world at large, I recognize that *my* definitions and interpretations may not perfectly coincide with others, and that I have no authority to force my definitions and interpretations on others.

Which is why people are telling the OP it doesn't matter, and it's how people define themselves, etc.

It's been my observation that people capable of thinking for themselves will form their own definitions and interpretations; people who cannot think for themselves will (as always) flounder.

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(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 5:40:35 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		~FR~


LILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *tacklesmooocheshugsgropes* I HAVE MISSED YOU!!!

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 5:51:17 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1



I never hear anyone who is vanilla asking the difference between a being a girlfriend or friend with benefit or a wife.





Really? I've had to endure dozens of conversations discussing the difference between being a girlfriend or friend with benefits!

Not much confusion about the "wife" bit mind you.

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Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 6:10:26 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		/snicker/

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 7:09:08 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittycake
I consider myself to be more of a sub than a slave, because in my definition, a submissive submits within agreed upon rules, while a slave gives up total control. That's just my way of thinking, for me, and has no bearing on anyone else's definition.


I consider myself a submissive, because I don't believe that there is such a thing as consentual slavery.


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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to kittycake)
Profile   Post #: 40
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