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RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 11:30:36 AM   
deeplove


Posts: 22
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		I read all the time here for some people that said " I am not an slave ! i am a sub , I Hope You Understand " Thats why i ask ... for me a sub has a choice to do it but an an slave dont ... is the same to me is a very personal thing

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 11:49:33 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittycake
I consider myself to be more of a sub than a slave, because in my definition, a submissive submits within agreed upon rules, while a slave gives up total control. That's just my way of thinking, for me, and has no bearing on anyone else's definition.


I consider myself a submissive, because I don't believe that there is such a thing as consentual slavery.



Yeah, I'm kinda the same way. I get why people call themselves slave or Master, there's definitely a thrill to it. But I get too hung up on the horror of real-life nonconsensual slavery to be comfortable using the term myself.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 12:33:56 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		I'm not a true slave.

About a year into our relationship we discussed what our definitions of 'sub' and 'slave' were. They didn't match.

However by that point I'd already handed over authority to him, so his definition was our 'correct' one and I became his slave.

I doubt our definition matches anyone else's definition, but I don't really care. It works for us, and that's all that matters.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 12:36:26 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		What were the differences between his and your definitions?

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(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 12:37:38 PM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline 		I assume you mean difference---but for me the difference is my definition and my partners definition. I say submissive he says slave. Is it important? NOPE cause at the end of the day I am the very same person.

(in reply to deeplove)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 12:50:00 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		mostly on the question of consent.

I always said I was able to walk away at any point, which made me submissive (by my definition).

He said that as I continued to choose not to walk away and to do everything he asked, then that made me his slave.

To be honest it's all semantics, and not in the least bit important. But it made him happy and that's what I'm here to do

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 1:06:12 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
I always said I was able to walk away at any point, which made me submissive (by my definition). He said that as I continued to choose not to walk away and to do everything he asked, then that made me his slave.

this.

In the end, Carol also sees herself as much more bounded than I do. Carol imagines all the commands she might flat out reject or simply struggle to obey. I point out that in actual fact, she's never rejected a command. My general attitude is we can cross the rebellion bridge when we get there. I'm not too worried about arriving there any time soon since I suspect it means divorce.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 1:07:57 PM   
puppet11


Posts: 52
Joined: 7/17/2012
Status: offline 		... and again left to interpretation.

Your right if I chose to Not submit I would not have a Dom... I view it as more mindset.
I view myself as a sub because I trully desire to give myself and hence "choose" to submit to my Beast,

I have in the past chosen to go to a Dom who then took, abused and degraded me, I, once there did not stay/submit because i wanted to but because I was afraid, I was held in that place by fear of what might happen to me if i tried to walk away from it... I was a slave to my fear and to the man who took advantage of the fear he elicited in me.

IMO these are very different, the acts may be similar or even identical, it is the mindset of the one giving or being taken.
This is only my experience.


quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick


quote:

ORIGINAL: puppet11

left to interpretation. IMO - as a sub, I choose to submit; as a slave, I am given no choice


Okay, I'll bite. Again.

Not a single one of my friends who identifies as a sub, and is in a relationship, would ever dream of choosing to submit or choosing to NOT submit to her Dom. Choosing to not submit means he is no longer her dom.

How is that different from a slave? It's not, it's all semantics.

Oh, if you're talking about the initial start of the relationship, I say that is bullocks as well, or else there would be no unowned slaves, but simply Masters walking up to them and saying "mine now, you have no choice".

Cali







(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 2:06:27 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
After a long (years long) wandering discussion on the subject, the best I was able to come up with was that a Submissive values the Others dominance, a Slave values their own submission.




_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 2:08:47 PM   
puppet11


Posts: 52
Joined: 7/17/2012
Status: offline 		well said topcat... i like your interpretation alot.
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat


After a long (years long) wandering discussion on the subject, the best I was able to come up with was that a Submissive values the Others dominance, a Slave values their own submission.





(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 2:19:52 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		Thanks-

Really, of course, it only matters inside my head, but it does seem to make a good dividing line...

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to puppet11)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 2:46:50 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puppet11

... and again left to interpretation.

Your right if I chose to Not submit I would not have a Dom... I view it as more mindset.
I view myself as a sub because I trully desire to give myself and hence "choose" to submit to my Beast,



Okay, put aside the situation with the abuse that you stayed for because you were too afraid to leave (which appears to be nothing more than an abusive relationship and has little to do with any Master/slave relationship I know of).

In the same situation you're in now, finish this sentence:

I view myself as a sub because I truly desire to give myself and hence "choose" to submit to my Beast; if I viewed myself as a slave, I _________________________________________.



_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to puppet11)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 3:10:53 PM   
subpnw


Posts: 11
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline 		i have always considered the term "slave" to be in the fantasy realm as it relates to the members of Collarme. Since slavery is illegal, the only legal option is to be a submissive. True slavery would have no limits and although one could agree to a no limits arrangement, that fact that one did agree just makes it a higher level of submission. IMHO true slavery is involuntary, and although it can make for some exciting erotic fantasies, in reality would be a less than desirable existence to say the least.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 3:33:00 PM   
puppet11


Posts: 52
Joined: 7/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick


quote:

ORIGINAL: puppet11

... and again left to interpretation.

Your right if I chose to Not submit I would not have a Dom... I view it as more mindset.
I view myself as a sub because I trully desire to give myself and hence "choose" to submit to my Beast,



Okay, put aside the situation with the abuse that you stayed for because you were too afraid to leave (which appears to be nothing more than an abusive relationship and has little to do with any Master/slave relationship I know of).

In the same situation you're in now, finish this sentence:

I view myself as a sub because I truly desire to give myself and hence "choose" to submit to my Beast; if I viewed myself as a slave, I would_be_taken_without_it_being_consentual.___________________________________.

...need I remind You this is My Own Personal Opinion... and I agree that No D/s, M/s relationship should be that way as I described however if You have been around for a minute then I am Sure You are well aware that there are those out there who have and will use BDSM as a guise in order to abuse another person...

nothing more than mis-information, why do you think "we" seek out to speak with others... for clarity and a sense of community... right? Teach me what I may not understand and teach others so they do not have to be mis-informed and made to believe an abusive relationship is what BDSM is about... teach Safe Sane and Consentual because not everyone comes in knowing that.

Or help make others not welcome and let them leave, going out unprepared... uneducated...



(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 3:47:09 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
After a long (years long) wandering discussion on the subject, the best I was able to come up with was that a Submissive values the Others dominance, a Slave values their own submission.



This makes absolutely no sense to me: they are not mutually exclusive. How can one value their own submission without appreciating the dominant for their dominance?
Or, to put it in my own words; without someone to submit to him/her, (s)he is simply a person sitting in a chair. Without someone to dominate me, I just look silly kneeling on the floor.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 4:07:01 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
I always said I was able to walk away at any point, which made me submissive (by my definition). He said that as I continued to choose not to walk away and to do everything he asked, then that made me his slave.

this.

In the end, Carol also sees herself as much more bounded than I do. Carol imagines all the commands she might flat out reject or simply struggle to obey. I point out that in actual fact, she's never rejected a command. My general attitude is we can cross the rebellion bridge when we get there. I'm not too worried about arriving there any time soon since I suspect it means divorce.



So often equate slave or submissive as being capable to walk away or not. Which I frankly find rather strange and cant seem to appreciate or understand. The reality is I am just as bond and committed to the relationship of my two girls as they are to me. I hardly see myself as a slave because of it. As such, just because one is capable of walking away o me doesn't neccessarrily disqualifies a person as a slave in my eyes. I tend to think that there is always something that no matter how unlikely can bring about an end to a relationship. It's that unlikely ness that tends to make us feel invulnerable to failure in our relationships. But I have seen great relationships fail when they are taken for granted.

My girls are slaves because they do as I tell them. It really is that simple for me. I like the above quote that I bolded. It's very much my thinking on the issue



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 4:07:37 PM   
puppet11


Posts: 52
Joined: 7/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
After a long (years long) wandering discussion on the subject, the best I was able to come up with was that a Submissive values the Others dominance, a Slave values their own submission.



This makes absolutely no sense to me: they are not mutually exclusive. How can one value their own submission without appreciating the dominant for their dominance?
Or, to put it in my own words; without someone to submit to him/her, (s)he is simply a person sitting in a chair. Without someone to dominate me, I just look silly kneeling on the floor.


the way that it came across to me is that the submissive is selfless seeking and appreciating the dominance given by the "other" and that the slave sefishly focuses on what they "have to give" and not to whom or why they are giving and what theya re being given in return... as if the submissive views the situation as a gift and the slaves views it as a chore... i could be wrong but this is the way i interpretted it (hey looks it's that word again...interpret) lol

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 4:17:47 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puppet11


I view myself as a sub because I truly desire to give myself and hence "choose" to submit to my Beast; if I viewed myself as a slave, I would_be_taken_without_it_being_consentual.



So you don't then believe in slaves the way the word is used in Master/Slave relationships? You could only be a slave if someone forced you to do so by whatever means they have????

Speechless. Yes, more education is needed. VAST, HUMONGOUS, SOLAR-SYSTEM-SIZED quantities of education.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to puppet11)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 4:58:07 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puppet11


quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
After a long (years long) wandering discussion on the subject, the best I was able to come up with was that a Submissive values the Others dominance, a Slave values their own submission.



This makes absolutely no sense to me: they are not mutually exclusive. How can one value their own submission without appreciating the dominant for their dominance?
Or, to put it in my own words; without someone to submit to him/her, (s)he is simply a person sitting in a chair. Without someone to dominate me, I just look silly kneeling on the floor.


the way that it came across to me is that the submissive is selfless seeking and appreciating the dominance given by the "other" and that the slave sefishly focuses on what they "have to give" and not to whom or why they are giving and what theya re being given in return... as if the submissive views the situation as a gift and the slaves views it as a chore... i could be wrong but this is the way i interpretted it (hey looks it's that word again...interpret) lol


See, there ya go.

To *me* it's almost the opposite- the Submissive is attracted to what is done to themselves, the Slave driven by whats they can do for the Other. I equate 'selfflessness' (though really, neither stance is truely selfless) more with Slave than I do Submissive.

But again, that's only a real distinction inside my head

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to puppet11)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: what is for you the diferent between a Submissive a... - 7/18/2012 8:21:47 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puppet11


quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
After a long (years long) wandering discussion on the subject, the best I was able to come up with was that a Submissive values the Others dominance, a Slave values their own submission.



This makes absolutely no sense to me: they are not mutually exclusive. How can one value their own submission without appreciating the dominant for their dominance?
Or, to put it in my own words; without someone to submit to him/her, (s)he is simply a person sitting in a chair. Without someone to dominate me, I just look silly kneeling on the floor.


the way that it came across to me is that the submissive is selfless seeking and appreciating the dominance given by the "other" and that the slave sefishly focuses on what they "have to give" and not to whom or why they are giving and what theya re being given in return... as if the submissive views the situation as a gift and the slaves views it as a chore... i could be wrong but this is the way i interpretted it (hey looks it's that word again...interpret) lol



Wow...for me it's the exact opposite and that's all I'm going to say as Master's slave.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to puppet11)
Profile   Post #: 60
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