RE: Why do we fear taxes?

RE: Why do we fear taxes? (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:08:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery the average worker made I think this is where your argument could be weak. Has the distribution of wealth changed much? For example, corporate executives did not make nearly as much as they do today not long ago. I think this is where you don't understand the word average. Distribution has widened considerably since 1980. But it was quite wide in 1890, before any of the anti-trust legislation.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:09:33 PM)
corporations in the creation of this country had a 20 year sunset imposed or they had to be "VOTED" in by the people to continue to operate as such. That has been abolished in this countries continuous direction toward pre-revolutionary conditions of government. That and the government has SOVERIEGN authority to tax, bot legitimate except and unless appointed by higher authority which they were not. They voted themselves as the authority. Not the people, but the People. If we want to get technical. Only one colony actually run a referendum for the people to vote on.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:11:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery the average worker made I think this is where your argument could be weak. Has the distribution of wealth changed much? For example, corporate executives did not make nearly as much as they do today not long ago. I think this is where you don't understand the word average. Distribution has widened considerably since 1980. But it was quite wide in 1890, before any of the anti-trust legislation. I do not remember any distribution in the terms he used the word, what distribution are you talking about?

Real0ne -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:12:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: You do not view transfer of wealth from the general populace to the corporations as social engneering? If not then perhaps you might describe what you feel constitutes social engineering and why it is wrong? No, I view those as bailouts or subsidies. So far you have failed to answer the question. What do you feel constitutes social engineering and why is it wrong. quote: What I feel doesn't have one damn thing to do concerning what social engineering is. Besides, feeling is a liberal trait I leave to you. Personally I prefer to think. You might think about getting a dictionary and learn what the word feel means. If you choose to use a made up definition that would be your choice but it would quantify your ignorance and arrogance. quote: But, DAYAM!!! If that's your idea of social engineering you came to this discussion unprepared. Still waiting for you to supply us with your defintion of social engineering. Social engineering is the regulation of conduct, rather than limiting it to injury in law or equity. DOes that work fo ya?

thompsonx -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:17:21 PM)
quote: Why can't I buy a typical single family home and pay for it in about 6 years as it was back in the late 1800's ? Perhaps because a new house has electricity,gas,water,sewer. Perhaps because the person who built it makes closer to a living wage than the worker in 1890. Perhaps because land acquisition cost have gone up. Perhaps the infrastructure to maintain that new house did not exist in 1890. Perhaps because there are building codes that require the roof not to leak and stuff like that. These are not the sorts of things one needs a college degree to figgure out...clearly common sense is not very common.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:18:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Why can't I buy a typical single family home and pay for it in about 6 years as it was back in the late 1800's ? Well for starters, the 1890s was a severe depression in the U.S., second only to the Great Depression of the 1930s. In in 1890, the average worker made $1.53 per day for 279 days per year for a total of $479 for the year. Today, the average worker makes $51,413. That's 107 times higher. The average house costs $242,300 (varying greatly by location, of course). But the housing cost index from 1890 to today is only 55 times higher, from 100 to 5500. [image]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/assets_c/2011/03/RealHousingPrices_1890_2010_log-thumb-570x406-45789.png[/image] How did people pay them off in six years? They didn't. The black line, incidentally, is housing growth adjusted for inflation. Essentially flat. Actually MM, I think he may be right. I don't feel terribly motivated to do the research on it but, I saw an article once...a year or so ago, it showed a "typical" house of the late 1800's for a family of 6+ (keep in mind, you didn't go to work...work was outside your front or back door). If I remember, the (typical) house for 6 - 8 - 10....was about 650 sf, zero insulation, single pane windows, no caulking around same, no foundation, steeply pitched roof ("bedrooms", if you could call them that, were in that section...warmer in the winter). You could probably build that place today (in today's dollars) on any dry hard surface for about $10,000.00 - $20,000.00 if you used a contractor. No running water (ergo, no cost of a water system), no asphalt tab roofing (lots of leaks in the rainy season), no 65 inch flat screen TV or internet, no telephone cabling, no garbage disposal, Onyx counter tops, robot vacuums....etc. So, yeah...I can see someone paying off a house in the late 1800's in 6 years, maybe even 6 months in relative terms. I think they still have some of these available in the Ozarks. Might even be some good deals. And then....there's always Detroit. Those you can pay off in about 6 weeks...if you live that long in those neighborhoods.

Musicmystery -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:18:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery the average worker made I think this is where your argument could be weak. Has the distribution of wealth changed much? For example, corporate executives did not make nearly as much as they do today not long ago. I think this is where you don't understand the word average. Distribution has widened considerably since 1980. But it was quite wide in 1890, before any of the anti-trust legislation. I do not remember any distribution in the terms he used the word, what distribution are you talking about? Bolded for the reading comprehension impaired.

thompsonx -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:19:06 PM)
quote: Social engineering is the regulation of conduct, rather than limiting it to injury in law or equity. DOes that work fo ya? No...can you guess why?

Musicmystery -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:20:09 PM)
quote: If I remember, the (typical) house for 6 - 8 - 10....was about 650 sf, zero insulation, single pane windows, no caulking around same, no foundation, steeply pitched roof ("bedrooms", if you could call them that, were in that section...warmer in the winter). You could probably build that place today (in today's dollars) on any dry hard surface for about $10,000.00 - $20,000.00 if you used a contractor. No running water (ergo, no cost of a sewer system), no asphalt tab roofing (lots of leaks in the rainy season), no 65 inch flat screen TV or internet, no telephone cabling, no garbage disposal, Onyx counter tops, robot vacuums....etc. So, yeah...I can see someone paying off a house in the late 1800's in 6 years, maybe even 6 months in relative terms. But then he's hardly comparing apples to oranges. He then wants to know why he can't pay off a shack in 6 years--and he can.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:20:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Social engineering is the regulation of conduct, rather than limiting it to injury in law or equity. DOes that work fo ya? No...can you guess why? I can't Thompson, but thank GAWD you're here to enlighten us all.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: If I remember, the (typical) house for 6 - 8 - 10....was about 650 sf, zero insulation, single pane windows, no caulking around same, no foundation, steeply pitched roof ("bedrooms", if you could call them that, were in that section...warmer in the winter). You could probably build that place today (in today's dollars) on any dry hard surface for about $10,000.00 - $20,000.00 if you used a contractor. No running water (ergo, no cost of a sewer system), no asphalt tab roofing (lots of leaks in the rainy season), no 65 inch flat screen TV or internet, no telephone cabling, no garbage disposal, Onyx counter tops, robot vacuums....etc. So, yeah...I can see someone paying off a house in the late 1800's in 6 years, maybe even 6 months in relative terms. But then he's hardly comparing apples to oranges. He then wants to know why he can't pay off a shack in 6 years--and he can. True. But it's like that old saying....statistics don't lie, but statisticians do (using statistics). There isn't a fair comparison to an average home then and now, so his question is essentially invalid. Interestingly, except for Kings and Royalty, even people like the Rockefeller s and the like didn't live in homes as comfortable as the least of us today. Bigger...you bet...but not as comfortable.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:23:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: My are you dense. [bAnother personal attack. Your lack of knowledge of the subject at hand is obvious. From your link: quote: for instance, between men and women, or between different ethnic groups The government social engineered womens sufferage...do you deny that? You state you are against social engineering so by your own words you are against womens sufferage. The government social engineered citizenship for blacks...do you deny that???again you say you are against social engineering and thus you are against citizenship for blacks. How is it that you cannot understand what you post? try again T the gubafia engineered the ability to tax both parties, (husband and wife) rather than just the husband. They eliminated dowery and had to give women a remedy in law. Blacks were without a state, and under the law of the UKA, either you are a shackled slave or franchised and nothing in between. The state has no jurisdiction over them and no choice but to send them back where they came from as the blackls would have been sovereign under internation law, so they enfranchised them with second class civil rights by grant of the federal gub. They can and do change the common law when it is in their own best interest to suit the needs of our owners. However anything that suits the needs of a free people they use archaic stare decis used under the king and force each and every one of you to sue for relief, ALL the while sticking their protection of you up your ass. Keep in mind that they are the arbitors of law and hence they claim as can be seen in many scotus cases that they provide that law that is considered to be your protection. Well and that works just dandy until they are party to a suit because someone wrecked your car on the highway where you are presumed divorced. You are presumed married to them for tax collection and divorced when trying to enforce the contract. what a fucking deal! Thank you America!

thompsonx -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:25:52 PM)
quote: there's always Detroit. Those you can pay off in about 6 weeks...if you live that long in those neighborhoods. Last year a poster linked us to properties for sale in flint. Of the 100 listings the first thirty were less than $5000. It would seem that buying a whole neighborhood would be dooable for someone with maybe a half mil in their stash. Wall it and move your family and friends in (a la the godfather)hire the local thugs for your security force.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:29:39 PM)
limited to 620 acres, but they got around that too by ones ability to create corporations and different names, each being a separate "entity" in law. Hence a silent owner could own a whole state or more

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:30:00 PM)
http://detroit.craigslist.org/search/rea?query=&srchType=A&minAsk=1000&maxAsk=2000&bedrooms=&sort=priceasc

Real0ne -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:37:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Social engineering is the regulation of conduct, rather than limiting it to injury in law or equity. DOes that work fo ya? No...can you guess why? I can't Thompson, but thank GAWD you're here to enlighten us all. well T cough it up LOL

thompsonx -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:39:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie http://detroit.craigslist.org/search/rea?query=&srchType=A&minAsk=1000&maxAsk=2000&bedrooms=&sort=priceasc If I remember correctly they had some that cheap. Snow is a deal breaker for me. It snows a couple of inches once or twice a year here and that is a couple of inches too much as far as I am concerned. I can deal with it but it ain't my fav.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:47:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie http://detroit.craigslist.org/search/rea?query=&srchType=A&minAsk=1000&maxAsk=2000&bedrooms=&sort=priceasc If I remember correctly they had some that cheap. Snow is a deal breaker for me. It snows a couple of inches once or twice a year here and that is a couple of inches too much as far as I am concerned. I can deal with it but it ain't my fav. I think it's entirely possible too much "snow" may have been the cause of some of your unique thinking.

BenevolentM -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 2:58:04 PM)
I went looking for statistical data for income distribution in the United States from 1890 to today. quote: http://econfix.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/distribution-of-income-usa/ objectum: Are there are any historical graphs that we could compare this to in order to see changing distributions in wealth? Jon Love: Look up Mother Jones, they have lost of graphs on inequitable distribution of income and wealth. the short story is gap has been widening since 1970 – dramatically. Now it is worse than 1920's. only 1890's before the worst crash ever – rivals the split today. See books and articles by Robert Reich. twitter: Thanks for sharing but there’s a better graph at: http://www.lcurve.org/ The graph here is missing a few orders of magnitude because the highest earners in the US pocket billions each year, not millions. The thousand fold difference between those people and the average of 300,000 people in the top 0.1% of the US population is significant feature which should not be concealed. When that feature is displayed, the rest of the curve vanishes and becomes an L unless you display it on a log graph that would befuddle most people. The distribution of wealth is even worse. The people making billions could really fuck up the averages. Also, the amount of money in circulation since it is finite could create a ceiling that could wrongly make the graph flat when reasoning from an average.

thompsonx -> RE: Why do we fear taxes? (7/20/2012 3:13:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie http://detroit.craigslist.org/search/rea?query=&srchType=A&minAsk=1000&maxAsk=2000&bedrooms=&sort=priceasc If I remember correctly they had some that cheap. Snow is a deal breaker for me. It snows a couple of inches once or twice a year here and that is a couple of inches too much as far as I am concerned. I can deal with it but it ain't my fav. I think it's entirely possible too much "snow" may have been the cause of some of your unique thinking. It has been my opinion that that sort of snow is just mother nature's way of telling you that you make too much money. Now were it to become subject to market forces as opposed to the way it is now then that would of course change the paradigm. You seem to have the opinion that the pharmacology of that particular product causes neurological damage...I would be interested in reading anything valid you might have to substantiate that position.

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