quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Bama:
The fact that it happens at a gun show doesn't make it part of the gun show.
Wrong

How do you expect the people running the gun show to know that I am selling a gun to someone when no one associated with the show is involved in any way.
Because their license requires it


In Al I can sell my gun to anyone I want to without a background check.
This is true in the entire united states for private citizens always has been always will be. 

Is it a loophole if I agree to meet someone after the show to buy a gun?
It is patently and clearly illegal to do so under federal law, even by casual buyers. Has been since 1968 and even in the expansion since 1986 or whenever it was.

Who do you penalize the show organizer who doesn't know the transaction is taken place, the nearest dealer to were the tranaction took place, maybe the Representative of the district where the transaction took place.
The guy that makes the illegal transaction.

It is an unenforceable strawman whose only purpose is to shut down gun shows.
This is misinformation typical of the rabid right teabaggers and neo-cons, they have no real knowledge or facts, but they blowhole this asswipe as if they are experts.
 
 
Sounds great but the devilis in the details.
Then you should learn the subject matter before you run your mouth, you bring no light to the discussion as is the usual case with the teabagging blowholers, but only heat from good honest americans who know this stuff, and actually can speak expertly on the subject.

---

You then go on with this little bit of chicanery. As if you were an innocent and injured party when in fact you were derailing with a bit of rumplestiltskin lying spinning.
 
You pay attention this started with my responding to a statement that the gun show loophole was private sales between private individuals.

My dying fucking ass you did, the above is what you said, and all of it profoundly in error.

You went off the deep end and jumped tothe erronious conclusion that I was some kind or evil gun runner.

No, I did not jump to an erroneous conclusion, never said you were an evil gunrunner, I said you were untutored and running your mouth about shit that you have no knowledge of.
 
What honest consideration do I owe you? You misinform, inflame, cast aspersions, couch yourself as an illegitimate appeal to authority when indeed it is an illegitimate appeal to ignorance, and do it with nothing but strawmen.
 
I owe you no honest and respectful hearing when you intentionally misinform with fantasy on the way you wish it was so you would have a point.  Throw away your Wayne LaPierre pinups and read ATF publication 5003.4.
 
   

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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Without the NRA You would have been regulated to muzzle loaders long time ago.

Without the NRA, people would be buying guns responsibly, with waiting periods and background checks, and not stocking up at gun shows -- like Holmes just did.

You keep going on about that...but the fact remains that it varies by state and a lot of states already have waiting periods and background checks......whether the guns are bought at a gun show or not.

Bullshit,google "gun show loophole"
It's called private selling,and it is done all the time,sometimes in bulk !

quote:

What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?
All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process. California imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a buyer or transferee. A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun. To buy a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age, and either 1) possess an HSC plus successfully complete a safety demonstration with the handgun being purchased or 2) qualify for an HSC exemption.

As part of the DROS process, the buyer must present "clear evidence of identity and age" which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver's License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles. A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.

If the buyer is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing to the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.

Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:




In order for it to be an assult rifle it must be capable of automatic fire.

All AR-15's are capable of automatic fire. The capability is inherent in the engineering. The earliest models of AR-15 even had the three position switch as they were sold to the military not civilian market (Colt model 601 and 602).

Any semi auto can be converted to full auto, the AR needs a different sear than the one it is sold with.
I once new a guy who converted a ruger 10/22 to full auto, Course he lost a leg when he shot himself with an M1 rifle.

Like I said.

So the AR-15 is an assault rifle.

quote:

The term assault weapon is a United States political and legal term used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features generally associated with military assault rifles. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, codified the definition of an assault weapon. It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine containing more than 10 rounds, and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Primary pistol grip
Forward grip
Threaded barrel (for a muzzle brake or a suppressor, commonly called a silencer)
Barrel shroud

The assault weapons ban did not restrict weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns, which have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement or SOT (special occupational taxpayer) dealers.

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ORIGINAL: Fp4

I've been living in the US for almost a year and I still don't get how some americans consider carrying a gun a right.

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ORIGINAL: mtcouple

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Is there any reason why people might actually NEED an automatic rifle? I'm trying to think of a valid reason for possessing one. I'm unable to think of any legal circumstance where a single action rifle would not suffice.

If any reasons exist, they appear to be pretty exceptional. In that case, why can't those automatic rifles* that people may really need (as opposed to imagine they need) be stored at a secure central location (eg a police station) and signed in and out as the occasion arises?

I believe a system along these lines operates here and seems to work well. It satisfies all legitimate needs while offering security to all. It would certainly inhibit the circulation of automatic rifles, which can only be a good thing.

* inc models that can be converted to full automatic easily

I have a perfectly valid reason to own one- they are fun to shoot. After all, I could also go buy a sports car for the fun of it, and if driven improperly, that could easily be very deadly. In fact, auto related deaths far outnumber gun related deaths, so it's reasonable to say that as a whole, the sports car could be considered more deadly than the assault rifle. As far as the deadliness of legally owned assault rifles, the threat is a lot less pronounced than you might think it is.
The government saw fit to regulate automatic weapons in the gun control act of 1934. They required that in order to legally buy an automatic weapon, you had to submit registration paperwork to the ATF and pay for a $200 tax stamp. Literally hundreds of thousands of guns were registered this way. Out of all those full auto guns, up until 1986, only one legal full auto gun was used in a crime, and that was a cop, who used his issued rifle to kill his wife. Yet in 1986, a law was passed that made it impossible for civilians to own full autos that were originally registered after the 1986 cutoff. Police agencies could still acquire and register full autos. Now, those pre-86 guns sell for a mint, for a legal full auto AR-15, expect to pay $20000 or more.
Do you really think that these legally owned full autos are really that much of a danger that they need to be kept at the police station?

As far as the ease of converting a semi auto to full auto, see my previous post.

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

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ORIGINAL: Fp4

I've been living in the US for almost a year and I still don't get how some americans consider carrying a gun a right.

Because it is a right. It says so right in our Constitution. Our founding fathers believed that citizens have the right defend themselves.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The point that hasn't been adressed yet is that this took place in a concealed carry state, and nobody tried to take a shot at the tooled up cretin while he was murdering people with impunity.
Given that the self defence argument is the standard justification for concealed carry, that's an argument for more stringent gun control in itself, isn't it?

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

e.

quote:

The term assault weapon is a United States political and legal term used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features generally associated with military assault rifles. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, codified the definition of an assault weapon. It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine containing more than 10 rounds, and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Primary pistol grip
Forward grip
Threaded barrel (for a muzzle brake or a suppressor, commonly called a silencer)
Barrel shroud

The assault weapons ban did not restrict weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns, which have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement or SOT (special occupational taxpayer) dealers.

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ORIGINAL: mtcouple

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ORIGINAL: SilverMark

As the kid was leaving, and AFTER he had already shot 9 kids, killing two.....just a tad bit late....and all the assistant principal did was detain him....didn't stop anything, the damage was done, the kid was leaving the school....I guess it is possible he might have stopped the kid from shooting anyone on his drive home, assuming he would have done so?

As I recall, the gun was in the assistant principal's car, which means that when the shooting started, he had to go out to his car, get his gun, load it, come back into the school, find the shooter, and then stop him. By that time the kid had already killed 9 kids. If he was carrying the gun, the outcome might have been different.

oh yea, then there is this:
http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/m1040-BC-SC-Shotgun-SCChurch-2ndLd-Writethru-03-26-0803--3890315

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ORIGINAL: Fp4

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

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ORIGINAL: Fp4

I've been living in the US for almost a year and I still don't get how some americans consider carrying a gun a right.

Because it is a right. It says so right in our Constitution. Our founding fathers believed that citizens have the right defend themselves.

No kidding! I know that. I meant that I don't get how being able to kill somebody can be considered a right.

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Actually according to the government the definition of assault rifle has nothing to do with "automatic":

quote:

The term assault weapon is a United States political and legal term used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features generally associated with military assault rifles. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, codified the definition of an assault weapon. It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine containing more than 10 rounds, and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Primary pistol grip
Forward grip
Threaded barrel (for a muzzle brake or a suppressor, commonly called a silencer)
Barrel shroud

The assault weapons ban did not restrict weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns, which have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement or SOT (special occupational taxpayer) dealers.

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Killing someone isn't a right. Who told you it was?

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ORIGINAL: Fp4

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fp4

I've been living in the US for almost a year and I still don't get how some americans consider carrying a gun a right.

Because it is a right. It says so right in our Constitution. Our founding fathers believed that citizens have the right defend themselves.

No kidding! I know that. I meant that I don't get how being able to kill somebody can be considered a right.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

e.

Actually according to the government the definition of assault rifle has nothing to do with "automatic":

quote:

The term assault weapon is a United States political and legal term used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features generally associated with military assault rifles. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, codified the definition of an assault weapon. It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine containing more than 10 rounds, and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Primary pistol grip
Forward grip
Threaded barrel (for a muzzle brake or a suppressor, commonly called a silencer)
Barrel shroud

The assault weapons ban did not restrict weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns, which have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement or SOT (special occupational taxpayer) dealers.

That definition of an assault weapon was a political ploy to make the ban more palitable. A case of 1984 double speak.

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ORIGINAL: mtcouple

The AR-15 platform is exceedingly accurate, and as such, is very popular for coyote and varmint hunting as well as target shooting. In addition, the AR-15 platform is available in a number of different calibers besides the 5.56mm, and with the right caliber, could be used for elk, bear, ect. The AR-15 is designed to be light, and to stand up to damage in the field (both good things for hunting rifles.)

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The assault weapons ban was one of the dumbest and poorly written laws ever passed.

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A true assault ifle fulfills specific characteristics.

It is shorter and lighter than the standard military rifles of WW2 firing a higher velocity lower caliber cartridge but is still longer and heavier than the pistol cartridge firing submachineguns.