RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (Full Version)

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Proprietrix -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 2:10:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HollyS
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix
Reality defined by the majority trumps individually imposed definitions.
Um… except on collarme.


Wow, there's something I never thought I'd see on a BDSM posting board.  Current reality says that there is no such thing as consentual slavery.  What of the current majority that defines kinky as perverted?  Polyamory as sick and twisted?  Go back a few years to when African Americans were considered less than human by the majority.  Is my point unclear?
The "majority" has a long rich history of being painfully wrong on a wide range of issues.  Only sheep blindly follow the majority with the excuse that individual differences or definitions don't count.   Sheep.  People.  Sheeple.
You can't have it both ways.  Either you and you alone speak for yourself and your reality (as may every other human being for him or herself) or everyone may speak for everyone.  Be careful what you wish for.
~Holly


You made my point for me.
Reality of the majority says that kinky is perverted. Which is precisely why we are all considered perverts. Reality of the majority says that polyamory is sick and twisted. Which is precisely why we can’t legally marry two partners. When reality of the majority said that African Americans were less than human, slavery was permitted and acceptable.

Like it or not, most people conform to how the majority defines a word. Since "kinky" still means "pervert" to the majority, we adapt to that universally understood connotation. We can sit here all day and give our personal definition of "kinky", but it won’t matter to the majority of people. We can’t all just go around making up our own definitions and expect people to conform to our personal definitions of words. I can’t go downtown and say "I have a brown cat" and expect people to know what I really mean in my own little reality is that I have a red coffee cup. The reality of the majority would dictate that I’m talking about an animal. Unless the reality of the majority changes, I have to communicate with them via the same language, with the same meanings to words.

I’m not saying whether the majority’s definition is wrong or right. What I’m saying is that the majority’s definition is the universally understood one. And when the majority of people say a particular word, others realize that word carries the universally understood definition. When I say "cat", I can assume that most people understand I’m talking about a 4 legged furry animal with whiskers, and not a coffee cup. Outside of collarme, when the majority of the people say "bisexual", they can assume that most people understand they are talking about a person who fucks both men and women. And 100 years ago when someone said "slave", they could assume most people understood they were talking about a black man.

Wrong or right, the majority definition is the reality at that point in time because the definition is universally understood. And the minority who disagrees with the universally understood definition have an opinion that does not matter to the majority.
That was my whole point when I said:
"The rest of the world doesn’t care what you call it."

Most people, in most situations, are working off universally understood definitions. When I say "The traffic light is green", I don’t need to add qualifiers that I speak for my own reality and that I base the word traffic light on my own personal interpretation of those mechanical devices that hang from a wire in an intersection to direct traffic. Everyone else understands that I’m speaking for the reality of the majority. I don’t answer my phone by saying "Hello, and by hello I’m offering my own personal definition of what I consider greeting another personally socially to be."

But for some reason when we get here to collarme, some words change and there is no universally understood definitions anymore. The majority of people on other BDSM websites, and munch groups, and lifestyle gatherings have universally understood definitions for words like submissive, slave, Dominant, and S&M.


I don’t know how else to articulate this idea. I’m not saying the majority is right, moral, ethical, or anything else.
What I’m saying is:
- we communicate ideas through words
- those words each hold certain definitions,
- those definitions are based on what the majority of people believe those definitions are.

If each individual made up their own definition for every single word, there would be no point in language. We would just be babbling fools. We have to have a majority consensus on what words mean in order to communicate.



meatcleaver -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 2:13:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

But, gee, I was being told I shouldn't be politically correct.  You mean, one should be politically correct the way you want it but it stings when the honesty comes from another direction.

Sounds to me that the politically correct aren't the only hypocrites.


As I understand it there is a difference between tolerance, respect for the views of others and political correctness or at least how we in Britain understand it since it is an imported concept to us. Political correctness is imposed by the people who put themselves up as self appointed thought police. Over the last 15-20 years they have largely been successful but now it is being rejected as absurd because it curtails debate and masks social problems because when anyone raises an issue that is uncomfortable to the PC police they are immediately branded as racist, sexist or whatever 'ist' is most convenient.

I hate to find myself agreeing with that social work fascist Tony Blair but even he, who was once emperor of the PC police said, political correctness warps debate and prevents national discussion on important issues.



BitaTruble -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 2:29:54 PM)

quote:



Honestly I have never ever heard or read phrases like "Culturally challenged" you cite anywhere other than in attacks against this so-called "PC".


Features: Bogans: A Guide to the Culturally Challenged [varsity.co.nz]   Scholar Spotlight  Carnegie Online  :: BlackElectorate.com :: Maybe it's because you haven't been looking for it before. I first heard the phrase back in the early 80's in an Intercultural communications class in college. As for being gender specific - I used the terms s/he & him/her to point out that such things are not gender specific.  Celeste



twicehappy -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 2:55:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuperatusMasculs

Political Correctness through true consideration of the feelings that certain words and images convey is not disingenuous in the least.  It is called Respect.  "Acting" Politically Correct is very dangerous, as in you have already admitted that you do not mean what you say.  You are "acting" in order to fit in, seeking approval from others.

Which are you?


Well put! Bravo to you and thank you for taking the time to recognize there is a difference between being courteous and being politically correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

If you call someone a goat fucker, you're non-PC.

If you call them an animal lover, that's PC.

Same thing.. it's just semantics. Wrapping something up in pretty words doesn't make it more or less acceptable. When you twist those words to make them more acceptable so as not to hurt someone's delicate sensibilities, you may be changing the meaning of what you say.

Someone who justifies their cheating ways. "Poor dear.. so misunderstood. Are you sure this is what you should be doing, dear? Maybe you should think about it. Try to be honest even if it hurts. You'll be better off in the long run if you can just be brave and open with your SO." or.. "Your a fucking liar. Either come clean or be thought of as a liar."

Someone who hates people based on the color of their skin is not culturally challenged, they are a racist. Why call it something it's not? You think a racist is going to give a shitznit?

I don't see any need to be PC around liars, racists, abusers.. etc. Who the hell are we trying to protect the feelings of when we do that? Liars, racists and abusers. Yeah, I want to help them feel better.


Awesome Celeste, you put it in English so plain anybody should be able to grasp the concept now. A big thank you out to you as well.



JohnWarren -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 2:57:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

But, gee, I was being told I shouldn't be politically correct.  You mean, one should be politically correct the way you want it but it stings when the honesty comes from another direction.

Sounds to me that the politically correct aren't the only hypocrites.


As I understand it there is a difference between tolerance, respect for the views of others and political correctness or at least how we in Britain understand it since it is an imported concept to us. Political correctness is imposed by the people who put themselves up as self appointed thought police. Over the last 15-20 years they have largely been successful but now it is being rejected as absurd because it curtails debate and masks social problems because when anyone raises an issue that is uncomfortable to the PC police they are immediately branded as racist, sexist or whatever 'ist' is most convenient.

I hate to find myself agreeing with that social work fascist Tony Blair but even he, who was once emperor of the PC police said, political correctness warps debate and prevents national discussion on important issues.


The only one whom I've seen cited examples of "political correctness" has been Twicehappy.  Here are the examples:
quote:


Here are a few, with more search time i will post more later.

"Hmmm it is OK because whatever labels we wish to put on ourselves are OK"
 
"Could be...however, in a not so perfect world, 'face the reality' means a different reality from ours...it's their reality and that reality might be one that is of secrecy. It does not mean they like it or enjoy it...it means.....it is their reality and not mine, or yours"
 
"Its not up to me or you to decide to call someone not a slave. If someone wants a label to be able to get into a particular headspace - good for them.

If you want to be exact - slave means an owned property - so sure, some people wouldn't be slaves, because they aren't owned.

But that would be the only reason - and as we all know, labels in BDSM rarely conform to outside of wiitwd.

If that was the case, I would be a slave. I am owned property - I am what would be viewed as 'no limits'... But - it is prefered that I am not refered to as slave because of personal choice of Demons.

So if someone calls themself slave - who are we to judge that they are not? If someone calls themself Master - so what? We have the ability to just walk away and not call them what they insist - but we certainly don't have the right to deny them being what they feel."
 
 
"lables, day in and day out lables...The definitions can be appliacble  to anyone at any time. People may drift in and out  of one definition to another. As long as you are happy about what you  identify as; why should it matter the precice correct and approved defination  of any given activity at any given moment; and just who's buiness is it anyway"


Do you feel these "warp debate and prevents national discussion on important issues" or are just honest opinions presented in a respectful manner? 

Now, remember you don't want to phrase your answer in a politically correct manner.



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:02:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You're kidding, right?  When the majority believed the earth was flat, did that mean the earth was really flat?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Reality defined by the majority trumps individually imposed definitions.



Once again, I have to absolutely agree with Proprietrix.  I know you are a wordy fellow, LaM, but we are not talking about the earth being flat here.  I did get the sense from the beginning of this thread that this is more about definitions and how that relates to people being PC on the boards (and elsewhere) with the "You're ok I'm ok" party line.  Funny how we are really talking about definitions and the very definition of "PC", in the general sense of that usage, is being called into question.
I make it as clear as I can what My expectations are, what I seek, how I seek it, what Dominant, slave and M/s means to Me (pretty basic stuff) but I get crap all day long, every single day about what is being projected onto My definitions.  "Well, I didn't think you meant that" or "Are you sure this wouldn't be sufficient, because I think you're really hot and I would love to lick your ass every day!".
If one is a dancer, certain terms mean certain movements.  If the dancers are not taught these terms that represent these movements, the choreogreapher is going to have a hell of a time.  Because this one learned that a box step means a box step, and the other one learned that a box step is what the choreographer knows is a time step, so it will be a mess up there on stage.   If the dancers are willing to learn the correct moves, then the number will look good by opening night.  If there are several who insist that this box step is a time step, then either the others have to change their definition or the group will never get together.
We took common, every day words that people understand, and these words were applied to a lifestyle.  This lifestyle.  Now these words are suddenly being called into question.  They mean this, or they can mean that.  If a boy says he is a slave, and slave means to him that he comes home from work, gives up his share of the household expenses, gets his ass beat on Friday night and spends Saturday night with his friends, rests up for the work week on Sunday, and then starts all over again, he is wasting My time and adding to his own frustration when he can't find a Mistress.  On top of all this, he insists he is a slave, because he says so, and wants Me to waste My time explaining to him why this won't work for Me.  But this is supposed to be okay, because he has the right to define himeself in any way he wishes.  Well, yes, I suppose he does, as long as he understands that his definition doesn't mesh with Mine.   Instead, he takes his definition and tries to force Me to make it Mine so he can have what he wants.  Or else, as Jewel pointed out, he will waste My time for as long as he can get away with it, until his actual agenda comes out.  No wonder we are jaded.
No matter what anyone says, words mean certain things, IRW and in this lifestyle.  And they should.  It is the only way there can be a starting point for effective communication.  Tolerating or being PC about a bottom who wants to be called a slave is not helpful to anyone.  No wonder so many newbies are completely confused.  Depending on where they search on any given day, they are going to find something different.  Language is language.  Red is red, soft is not hard, and a whip is a whip.  If I say My boobs are a 34A and I want Vassarette Bras. I don't expect to be offered a 36C Cotton Maidenform.  I don't consider the basics to be up for debate. However, we can certainly discuss the color and whether or not I want a lace or satin finish in the front.  Those would be the details.
I have no problem with what people are within WIITWD.  I have a problem when they want to define themselves as one thing, they are really something else, and they try to forcefully project their definitions into My life. They know I am the right Mistress for them.  All I have to do is learn their way.  Sorry...No way!
It happens all the time.  I am no longer patient about it. I am courteous and tactful. 
I do not consider Myself PC...here or IRW. 
 



Lordandmaster -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:06:17 PM)

Oh, so this has become another "people should abide by standard definitions" thread.  I thought we already did that one.



darkinshadows -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:10:00 PM)

quote:

If I say My boobs are a 34A and I want Vassarette Bras. I don't expect to be offered a 36C Cotton Maidenform.
 
This is true.  But you could be given that 34A Vasserette Bra and it doesn't mean it will fit you.  But another 34A person, it will.  What you want, isnt always what fits.  Life isnt that black and white.
 
Peace and Rapture



meatcleaver -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:11:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

The only one whom I've seen cited examples of "political correctness" has been Twicehappy.  Here are the examples:
quote:



Here are a few, with more search time i will post more later.

"Hmmm it is OK because whatever labels we wish to put on ourselves are OK"
 
"Could be...however, in a not so perfect world, 'face the reality' means a different reality from ours...it's their reality and that reality might be one that is of secrecy. It does not mean they like it or enjoy it...it means.....it is their reality and not mine, or yours"
 
"Its not up to me or you to decide to call someone not a slave. If someone wants a label to be able to get into a particular headspace - good for them.

If you want to be exact - slave means an owned property - so sure, some people wouldn't be slaves, because they aren't owned.

But that would be the only reason - and as we all know, labels in BDSM rarely conform to outside of wiitwd.

If that was the case, I would be a slave. I am owned property - I am what would be viewed as 'no limits'... But - it is prefered that I am not refered to as slave because of personal choice of Demons.

So if someone calls themself slave - who are we to judge that they are not? If someone calls themself Master - so what? We have the ability to just walk away and not call them what they insist - but we certainly don't have the right to deny them being what they feel."
 
 
"lables, day in and day out lables...The definitions can be appliacble  to anyone at any time. People may drift in and out  of one definition to another. As long as you are happy about what you  identify as; why should it matter the precice correct and approved defination  of any given activity at any given moment; and just who's buiness is it anyway"


Do you feel these "warp debate and prevents national discussion on important issues" or are just honest opinions presented in a respectful manner? 

Now, remember you don't want to phrase your answer in a politically correct manner.


I'm laughing because that post to me it is just waffle and not taking a position on anything.



twicehappy -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:21:31 PM)


quote:


Honestly I have never ever heard or read phrases like "Culturally challenged" you cite anywhere other than in attacks against this so-called "PC".


Celeste this is not a reply to you but an answer for whoever made the above quote. I apologize i did look for who it was but could not find it.

A Criminal - unsavory character
A Crook - morally (ethically) challenged
Abortion - Near-Life Experience
Alcoholic - Anti-Sobriety Activist
Alive - temporarily metabolically abled.
An Immigrant - a newcomer
Assassination - involuntary term limitation
Bald - comb-free
Bald - folically independent
Bald - follicularly challenged.
Battle Fatigued - shellshocked
Blind - optically darker
Blind - photonically non-receptive
Blind - visually challenged
Body Odor - nondiscretionary fragrance.
Broken Down Automobile - mechanically challenged
Broken Home - Dysfunctional Family
Bum - Displaced Homeowner
Bum - Homeless Person
Bum - Involuntarily  UnDomiciled
Cannibalism - Intra-Species Dining
Censorship - Selective Speech
Cheating - Academic Dishonesty
China - Porcelain
Chronically Late - Temporarily Challenged
Clumsy - uniquely coordinated
Commercial Fisherman - Flipper Whipper
Computer Illiterate - Technologically Challenged
Corpse - Permanently Static Post-Human Mass
Corpse / Stiff - Metabolically Challenged
Corpse / Stiff - Terminally Inconvenienced
Cowardly - Challenge Challenged
Cowboys - bovine control officers
Crackpot - certified astrological consultant, certified crystal therapist, or certified past-life regression hypnotist
Crime Rate - street activity index
Dead - Actuarially Mature
Dead - biologically challenged
Dead - environmentally correct human
Dead - living impaired
Dead - metabolically challenged
Dead - persons living with entropy
Deaf - Visually Oriented
Delicatessen - Corpse Farm
Dirty Old Man - sexually focused chronologically gifted individual
Dish Washer - utensil sanitizer
Dishonest - Ethically disoriented.
Dorm - Residence Hall
Drooling Drunk Idiot - person on floor
Drowning - aquatically challenged
Drug Addict - Chemically Challenged
Drunk - spacially perplexed
Drunk / Junkie - in recovery
Earthquake - geological correction
Fail - achieve a deficiency.
Fat - Differently Weighted
Fat - gravitationally challenged
Fat - horizontally challenged.
Fat - horizontally gifted
Fat - People of Mass
Fat - person of substance
Fictional / Mythological - ontologically challenged
Freshman - first-year student
Frog - amphibian American
Full of Crap - fecally plenary
Gang - Youth Group
Garbage Man - sanitation engineer
Gas Station Attendent - petroleum transfer technician
Geek, Nerd, whatever... - socially challenged
Ghetto / Barrio - Ethnically Homogenous Area
Hamburger - Seared Mutilated Animal Flesh
Handicapped - Differently Abled, Handi-Capable
Having PMS - cyclically challenged
Hearing Person - temporarily aurally abled
Homeless - outdoor urban dwellers
Homeless - residentially flexible
Homelessness - Mortgage-Free Living
Housebroken - Family Disfunction
Housewife - domestic engineer
Hunter - Animal Assassin
Hunter - Bambi Butcher
Hunter - Meat Mercenary
Ignorant - factually unencumbered
Ignorant - knowledge-based nonpossessor.
Incompetent - Differently Qualified
Incompetent - Specially Skilled
Incompetent - Uniquely Proficient
Insane People - Mental Explorers
Insane People - Selectively Perceptive
Insult - Emotional Rape
Janitor - sanitation engineer
Klutz - kinesthetically challenged
Large Nose - nasally gifted
Lazy - motivationally dispossessed
Lazy - motivationally deficient.
Learning Disability - Self-Paced Cognitive Ability
Library - Educational Resource Center
Logger - Wood Weasel
Logger - Paper Pirate
Logger -Treeslayer
Loser - Second Place
Loser - uniquely fortuned individual on an alternative career path
Man-hole - maintenance hole
Mankind - humankind
MANkind, HuMAN, PerSON - Earth Children
Mercy Killing - Euthanasia
Mercy Killing - Putting Down/To Sleep/Out of Misery
Messy - differently organized
Meter Maid - Parking enforcer
Midget / Dwarf - Little People
Midget / Dwarf - Vertically Challenged
Mute/Dumb - verbally challenged
Not with somebody at the moment - romantically challenged -
Off - energy-efficient
Old - chronologically gifted
Old Person / Elderly - Gerontologically Advanced
Old Person / Elderly - Senior Citizens
Panhandler - Unaffiliated applicant for private-sector funding.
Paper Bag - processed tree carcass
Perverted - Sexually dysfunctional.
Pimp-mobile / Low-rider - Culturally Responsive Transportation Option
Plagiarism - Previously Owned Prose
Po' - financially inept
Policeman, Policewoman - law inforcement officer
Poor - economically marginalized
Poor - Economically Unprepared
Poor - monetarily challenged
Postman - letter carrier
Pregnant - parasitically oppressed.
Prisoner - client of the correctional system
Prostitute - sex care provider
Psychobabble - constructivist feminist psychotherapy
Psychopath - socially misaligned
Racist - genetically discriminating
Really Big Nosed - nasally disadvantaged
Redneck - person of region
Redneck - rustically inclined
Refugees - asylum seekers
Road Kill - Vehicularly Compressed Maladapted Life Form
Rudeness - Tact Avoidance
Runny Nose - nasally gifted
Senile Bag o' Bones - Alzheimer's Victim
Serial-Killer - Person with difficult-to-meet needs.
Shoplifter - Cost-of-Living Adjustment Specialist
Short - vertically challenged
Sighted Person - temporarily visually abled
Slum - Economic Oppression Zone
Slut - suffering from a sex addiction (female)
Someone who has no other reason to park in a handicapped zone - morally handicapped
Spendthrift - negative saver.
Stained - creatively re-dyed
Steward, Stewardess - flight attendant
Stoned - Chemically inconvenienced.
Stud - suffering from a sex addiction (male)
Stupid - differently-brained
Stupid - intellectually impaired
The Elderly - Senior citizens
Thin - horizontally challenged
Thirsty - osmotically challenged
Tone Deaf - musically delayed
Too old/young - other aged
Too Tall - people of height
Tree-Hugger - environmental activist
Trees - Oxygen Exchange Units
Ugly - aesthetically challenged
Ugly - Cosmetically different.
Ugly - facially challenged
Unemployed - Involuntarily leisured.
Used Books - Recycled Books
Vagrant - Nonspecifically destinationed individual.
Vegetable - noble unconscious hero
Vice President - Post-Coronary Leader of the Free World
Vocal Minority - target equity group
Vomiting - Unplanned Reexamination of Recent Food Choices
Waiter, Waitress - food server
War-Monger - Peacekeeper, patriot
Welfare Bum - economically disadvantaged
Whaler - Blubber Lover
White - melanin-impoverished
White American - racially challenged
White Boy - rhythmically challenged
White Trash - caucasian culturally-disadvantaged
Wife - unpaid sex slave
Worst - least best.
Wrong - differently logical.
 
Some of these are meant to be funny, yet i have heard some of these actually used in conversation, in a class room and on TV. 



cloudboy -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:24:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You're kidding, right? When the majority believed the earth was flat, did that mean the earth was really flat?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Reality defined by the majority trumps individually imposed definitions.



Seems to me Proprietrix is talking about "community values" (perversions) and you are talking about verifiable facts (flat v. round.)



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:30:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Oh, so this has become another "people should abide by standard definitions" thread.  I thought we already did that one.


Ah yes, LaM, that is what this is.  And we both know it has been done before, and done to death. *Smile*  Yes, "people should abide by standard definitions" in this lifestyle.  The operative word is standard.  There is no longer a standard.  Hence, we have a severe lack of communication.

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

This is true.  But you could be given that 34A Vasserette Bra and it doesn't mean it will fit you.  But another 34A person, it will.  What you want, isnt always what fits.  Life isnt that black and white.
 
Peace and Rapture


Ah...but I do know, for a fact, that a 34A Vassarette will fit Me beautifully.  I have no interest in or use for a 36C Maidenform, but I am offered that option every single day (figuratively speaking, of course, and pun intended!  *Smile*).  Just because there is an excess of wrong size, wrong brand out there doesn't mean I should take advantage of the sale and stock up.  What is the point, if all this will accomplish is taking up space in My bureau drawer and leaving Me with no bra to wear?
The 34A Vassarette is the slave boy I seek, The 36C Maidenforms are the bedroom and bottomy boys who write Me the one liners telling Me they are sure I want them and they are as much of a 34A Vassarette as the 34A Vassarettes.  After all, a bra is a bra???
So, for Me, it is that black and white. 



darkinshadows -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:31:16 PM)

Now when meatcleaver tried to explain it all to me, it makes sense.
 
But this post doesn't and I have no idea what this - as politically correct speech has nothing to do with BDSM.
 
If someone is cheating on their husband - and someone says - well there there... its ok, but maybe you are not being honest.  Ok... I understand the PC argument there.  A liar is a liar.
 
But I don't get your statement on being whipped, means you arent a dominant.  That makes no sense.  Thats not you being politically incorrect, thats you making a statement with a lack of understand and not wanting to understand another persons desire.  So a dom is a masochist not a sadist.  SO the fuck what?  It isn't your job to decide what makes a dominant a dominant.  It isnt interfering with you unless its being pushed onto you for you to perform the whipping so why should you have to feel you must tell the person that?
 
Peace and Rapture



darkinshadows -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:42:38 PM)

Well, I dont know what a vasserette is (I am assuming a make of bra and not an individual style)... But all makes carry different styles and not all styles are the same, even if it is a vassarette.  You may believe it fits, but it doesnt make it 100% the same fit as your previous bra type - it wont feel exactly the same - and every woman knows that if you buy a new bra - try it out first because that size may not fit - you might have been lucky and they all have sofar, but ask a underwear expert and I can be positive they will - everytime suggest that you measure before you buy a bra and try it on.  How many women walk around in badly fitting bras?  suffering bad backs, sore breasts, and bad underwear lines?(more embarressingly - don't even know they have bra lines)  More than even know it.  Its a well known fact that most women are wearing the wrong bras and dont even know it and you should never buy a bra on the make alone as every style from that make is different.  Blinker yourself on one single bra and you will have awful breasts and bad backs as you grow older.
A bra is a bra - but there are many types and by restricting yourself to just one brand and not try on others means you may lose out on an even more compatable brand. (And I am not just talking Maidenforms)
 
Peace and Rapture



Lordandmaster -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:48:26 PM)

So if the majority says we're a bunch of sickos, that means we're a bunch of sickos.

We fled the vanilla world only to yearn for the tyranny of the majority?  I don't get it.  First they told me I was supposed to lead my own life.  Well, I tried to do that.  Now they tell me I'm supposed to lead everyone else's life...

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You're kidding, right? When the majority believed the earth was flat, did that mean the earth was really flat?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Reality defined by the majority trumps individually imposed definitions.



Seems to me Proprietrix is talking about "community values" (perversions) and you are talking about verifiable facts (flat v. round.)



thetammyjo -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:49:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:



Honestly I have never ever heard or read phrases like "Culturally challenged" you cite anywhere other than in attacks against this so-called "PC".


Features: Bogans: A Guide to the Culturally Challenged [varsity.co.nz] Scholar Spotlight Carnegie Online :: BlackElectorate.com :: Maybe it's because you haven't been looking for it before. I first heard the phrase back in the early 80's in an Intercultural communications class in college. As for being gender specific - I used the terms s/he & him/her to point out that such things are not gender specific. Celeste


These aren't things that I read or encounter in my everyday life. No one I know or interacts with talks like these examples that are being brought up. Not even at my university or any university I've been at -- you encounter jargon in articles and techanical terms but you would encounter that in any discipline or profession.

Are terms used by writers. teachers, and politicans really examples of PC taking over everyday life if one doesn't hear them in everyday life?

I thought the OP was claiming that PC is getting out of hand in everyday life and in BDSM....

I don't see it in my everyday, online or university life.

Though I think you just said a lot, Celeste, when you said its because I haven't looked for it. I don't have a reason to look for it because I'm primarily concerned with being as clear as I can and for being considerate of others. I don't go looking for jargon to use, I look for the best way to express myself.

Perhaps this is just another example of the different worlds we tend to live in or what we go looking for around us. All I can say is that I don't see PC around me and therefore it cannot be getting out of hand in my view.



thetammyjo -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:54:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:


Honestly I have never ever heard or read phrases like "Culturally challenged" you cite anywhere other than in attacks against this so-called "PC".


Celeste this is not a reply to you but an answer for whoever made the above quote. I apologize i did look for who it was but could not find it.
.
.
.
Some of these are meant to be funny, yet i have heard some of these actually used in conversation, in a class room and on TV.


If you don't know who created these how do you know they are examples of PC and not simply strawmen to be set up and knocked down in an argument?

The only times I've heard any of these used in everyday life has been when people were making a joke... generally accompanied by laughter, rolled eyes, and shakes of head.



thetammyjo -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:57:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Now when meatcleaver tried to explain it all to me, it makes sense.
But this post doesn't and I have no idea what this - as politically correct speech has nothing to do with BDSM.



One could make the argument in fact that BDSM is political incorrect on all levels. I mean think about it, we embrace heirarchies and pain and pleasure and use all sorts of nasty and insulting terms sometimes when we scene or interact.



Sinergy -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 3:57:22 PM)

Hello A/all,

I tend to be rather politically correct most of the time.  I do this
for my own reasons and my own desire to not annoy other
people without meaning to.

However, I am a firm believer that political correctness is an
approach based on the idea that the words person X says can
upset or offend person Y.  Person Y being defined as a person
who is completely incapable of controlling their own emotional
state.  To be honest, I have very little respect for Person Y as
a sentient being.  But that is just me, and I could be wrong.

I dont think it is possible to say much of anything that wont anger
or annoy somebody.  So I dont do PC because I care what other
people think of me; they get offended by what I say, they can pay
somebody to listen to their emotional upset.

As far as the topic of this thread.  I dont think it is killing the
lifestyle, per se.  I think it is something which people involved in
the lifestyle are allowing to negatively impact how they interact
with others in the lifestyle.

I dont care how many guys have been sucked off by Mr. Self-described Heterosexual.  If he wants to consider himself the
Queen of Thailand I personally have no quarrel with it.  Who
am I to label or judge somebody else?  What does person Z's behavior really have to do with me?  There are certain non
consensual acts I have problems with, like child abuse, but if
some dude in Germany wants somebody to kill him and eat him,
who am I to argue?

Just me, etc.

Sinergy




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/9/2006 4:14:32 PM)

You are right, dark.  Of course we know that I am drawing an analogy here.  Yes, in a bra, I will generally wear a 34A. (Now everyone knows My bra size, but I never claimed to be well endowed!) I find certain brands and styles comfortable.  They give Me the proper support, and make Me look good and feel good.
So if I am offered the option of a wrong size (and I can visually see that it is the wrong size), I am not going to try it just because maybe...
Same thing with a boy (or girl).  When he tells Me he needs to be My cuck, and that this what makes him a slave, but I am not interested in a cuck, then he is not the one for Me.  But he insists.  Why is that? I have boys try to impress upon Me all the time what a slave is, and that they are the slave, but, but, but...Yet these are the same ones who truly believe that because they are willing to offer up their ass for a spanking, this makes them a slave.  Not in My book.
 
Now I do agree with you about the masochistic Dominant, or the Sadistic submissive.  We ( I certainly) have seen threads on these very topics.  The problem is that the place to get this out is in a profile or in honest conversations.  I have seen threads from disillusioned submissive gals who find another profile their Dom has put up as a submissive, or they are suddenly faced with the situation of a Dom they thought they knew, and now he admits he needs to bottom and expects her to do the topping.  This can be downright scary and might spell the end of a relationship.  Even if the submissive can handle the need, it might be okay for the Dominant to seek this elsewhere with her blessing. But it was never disclosed in the first place, so now what to do??? Then we begin to see the PC responses, such as "He is the Dom, so whatever he wants goes".  What is not usually addressed is the deeper issue of why this was never discussed up front.  Now we are being PC (as such a usage might apply to being polite on this board) by ignoring the actual problem. 
Same thing on the submissive boy side of the coin.  I read threads wherein boys complain that there are no real Dommes because every one they meet ends up wanting to submit to them.  Of course I have yet to see and actual written example of this, so it could be all in the mind *WEG* but, maybe that boy just tends to be attracted toward weaker Ladies. Or that is his comfort level.  Who really knows?
What we need is a standard or a basic of definitions, and then honesty in disclosure of the details.  Of course, people have to know what it is they want in the first place to do this effectively.
And I think many don't.    It is hard to figure out what you want when you don't have a standard set of definitions to begin.



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