RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (Full Version)

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JohnWarren -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/10/2006 7:52:22 PM)

Also, it's a bit funny seeing me branded as some kind of an agent of the left.  Let's see, I oppose gun control.  I protested the helmet laws when they were first passed.  I'm been a strong supporter of minimalist government and spending less.  I thought Jimmy Carter was a well meaning idiot.  I'm very strongly in favor of us staying out of foreign wars and I think everyone within the beltway needs to be forcefully relocated.  I'm a liberal?????



badkat -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/10/2006 7:56:33 PM)

damn...and here i liked you better as an agent of the left.. lol



Wulfchyld -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/10/2006 7:56:59 PM)

Now I am really confused. Has proclivities been banned from the language or not?
 
twice I called the cat chow guys. They don't want be labeled manufacturers anymore. They want to be called breakfast cereal sorcerers.



JohnWarren -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/10/2006 8:42:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: badkat

damn...and here i liked you better as an agent of the left.. lol

If one is to maintain self-respect and a healthy soul, one has to stop worrying about being liked.



bignipples2share -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 12:35:41 AM)

Okay, I got to page 7.
How can you define something as a person who is so multifacited and say they are this and that is absolute?
How can you say that words are absolute. If that were the case, why is there not just one language, why is cat not universal, why is there even the word gato, it has the same meaning, but the word itself is not the same.
If language is universal, why do I not understand Japanese? Why do some people say you and others say youse?
Why does the word intercouse mean discussion and can also mean a sexual act?
We can't even make meatloaf the same, how can we make something as complex as a person fit one word, one catagory for that word?
Okay, now I'd like to order a salad and sit back and see what the heck will actually end up on the plate.



TheCaveman -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 1:06:41 AM)

When I started reading this I was pretty sure you could call a cocksucker a cocksucker. Now I'm not sure.



Kedikat -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 1:16:46 AM)

I find it interesting and frustrating how PC creeeps into everything.
I find that PC in the realm of BDSM is set mostly by the old school of the " lifestyle" aside from the vanilla realm PC but often just as virilant. Imagining that they are the powers that be, they set their imaginary rules on their realm.

As in the real world. Those ones can be so out of touch. If you think you can set or follow rules in your life. Then your life is likely limited. And maybe self limited. Rules only last as long as the world stands still. There are ideals and morals that can last longer. But the world spins out from under rules every second. Your life spins along beyond your control, if you don't keep up with it. Find your moral compass and your ideals. Ride them on the rapids that life takes you along.

Find a harbour to shelter in and live. Or be one of those who fight the flow. Bless you then, for you show us the further way.



LadiesBladewing -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 6:13:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Ladies, I have no problem with what you've said-- distilled down to "say what you will, but try to be civil". But I would add that some take that concept and would see it enforced, either by law or by speech codes. That's when I differ, and for good or bad, I would possibly differ with less than sterling manners.
 
When I hear PC, what often comes to mind is the woman who sued a co-worker because he retold the storyline of an episode of Seinfeld that she found offensive......... the university in England that tried to ban the use of words like "fat" on campus........ the librarian in Ohio who was "investigated" for suggesting books to be placed on freshman reading lists that others claimed made them feel "threatened".....


I agree, and personally, I would prefer that people took personal responsibility for their own words and concepts, and the government kept their nose out of it. I've never been a big fan of legislating morality, but it seems that that is the only domestic plan our goverment can manage to work on -- apparently, there aren't any larger issues that they need to be dealing with. Go figure.

Da'Avatar ZWD

www.klashaan.org



darkinshadows -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 6:23:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

If one is to maintain self-respect and a healthy soul, one has to stop worrying about being liked.

Beautiful - may I cite that (with kudos to You of course)?
Peace and Rapture



LadiesBladewing -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 6:27:50 AM)

twicehappy,

It sounds to me like what you're asking for is a place where there is one common definition of words like "slave", "master", "submissive", "top", poly, etc. The problem that I see with this is that these words really -are- defined by the bearer. What I am looking for in a servant is probably not what your owners are looking for in a servant, although there may be similarities.

The best way to deal with this, in my opinion, is just to go through the weeding process. We keep our standards intact, and when we find someone who is interested, we measure them against our standards. It has nothing to do with PC or not. If they call themselves a slave, and it isn't what -we- see that label as fitting, we treat it like a fishing trip, and throw back the freaky or "too small" ones. The responsibility is ours, not some central labeling facility's, to determine our expectations (yes, we -do- have expectations), and to determine whether someone fits those expectations or not.

It feels to me, from reading your posts, like you are actually -asking- for some PC, centralized, "nobody can argue with this definition", version of BDSM language. I, for one, would despise this. I hate the idea of -anyone- telling me what I can and can't call what I do, can and can't call who I am, and deciding -for- me what choices I'm allowed to make or not make. I'd rather take the responsibility for making the choices myself. If this is "being PC", bring it on, because my independence is more important to me than any organization or group, with the exception of my family-of-choice.

Da'Avatar ZWD

www.klashaan.org



darkinshadows -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 6:30:16 AM)

quote:

I hate the idea of -anyone- telling me what I can and can't call what I do, can and can't call who I am, and deciding -for- me what choices I'm allowed to make or not make. I'd rather take the responsibility for making the choices myself. If this is "being PC", bring it on, because my independence is more important to me than any organization or group, with the exception of my family-of-choice.

Da'Avatar ZWD

Amen to that
Peace and Rapture



JohnWarren -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 7:21:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

I hate the idea of -anyone- telling me what I can and can't call what I do, can and can't call who I am, and deciding -for- me what choices I'm allowed to make or not make. I'd rather take the responsibility for making the choices myself. If this is "being PC", bring it on, because my independence is more important to me than any organization or group, with the exception of my family-of-choice.

Da'Avatar ZWD

Amen to that
Peace and Rapture



I'll second that.  I find the anti-pc forces to be more draconian and restrictive than those they claim to be pc.  

If it's bad to care about other's feelings, then I'm bad.



thetammyjo -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 7:27:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Also, it's a bit funny seeing me branded as some kind of an agent of the left. Let's see, I oppose gun control. I protested the helmet laws when they were first passed. I'm been a strong supporter of minimalist government and spending less. I thought Jimmy Carter was a well meaning idiot. I'm very strongly in favor of us staying out of foreign wars and I think everyone within the beltway needs to be forcefully relocated. I'm a liberal?????


I think its funny when people try to label me this way too.

If they only knew me and paid attention to me they'd see I'm actually quite radical or exceedingly old fashioned.

Let me give you an example based on something you've said above.

I, too, do not favor going into a foreign war.

HOWEVER the moment one American military boot sets foot on that foreign soil I want it all. I want the land to be given out to Americans who settle it and start enculturating the foreign population. I want markets set up to sell off the slaves we take in that war. I want our taxes lowered the conquered to start paying some tribute. I want the soldiers to be paid partly in booty so their families can be covered with this wealth when/if they die. I want the children of the foreign leaders taken as hostages and reeducated here in America so they can help with the enculturation.

Now how liberal and PC is that?!



HollyS -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 8:02:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

It sounds to me like what you're asking for is a place where there is one common definition of words like "slave", "master", "submissive", "top", poly, etc. The problem that I see with this is that these words really -are- defined by the bearer.

It feels to me, from reading your posts, like you are actually -asking- for some PC, centralized, "nobody can argue with this definition", version of BDSM language. I, for one, would despise this.  If this is "being PC", bring it on, because my independence is more important to me than any organization or group, with the exception of my family-of-choice.


Bravo and thank you for succinctly getting to the heart of matter.  Each person has the right to define themselves...  To bring on the language police and insist that everyone conform to a handful of labels (defined by the nebulous "someone") serves no one.  People are complicated and personally, I like it that way.

~Holly



twicehappy -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 8:54:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

twicehappy,

It sounds to me like what you're asking for is a place where there is one common definition of words like "slave", "master", "submissive", "top", poly, etc.


You almost have it, but not quite; this is not about me wanting everyone to bear a neat label, nor was this thread was not about not wanting to be courteous, i always try to be.

This is about all of the folks who write or speak feeling constrained and unable to FREELY so do for fear of being found offensive. Thereby often using words or phrases that are so far off base as to mean something else entirely. Which causes instead a great deal of misinformation.

If i write an answer to someone who asks the question" I like to be whipped only in the bedroom, outside of the bedroom i want an equal vanilla relationship. Does that mean i am a slave?” I want to be able to answer " No, you are not a slave you are a bottom" without ten people jumping down my throat and going on to give them an answer like this” if you feel you are a slave and that's what you want to call yourself that's ok, labels and words only have the meaning you give them". Which is total B.S. (no offense there Lady, only way i could think of to put that).

Now let us take that one step further, this person asking the question follows the advice given them and opens a profile stating they are a slave. To start with they do not understand why all these doms who are looking for a slave are emailing them with, to this person, all sorts of strange requests and demands. All they are looking for is somebody to spank them; outside of that they want a normal partner.

Did we actually do them a good service with the P.C. answer?

Now you are speaking with this slave and getting a little upset, asking them” Why if you only wanted someone to spank you does your profile say slave?".

Hmmm....maybe because when this person asked for an answer so many of us were so busy being P.C. we never gave a straight answer. It is good to tell them it is ok to be a bottom if that is what you enjoy, it is not so good to disseminate bad information in the interest of being P.C..

I want to go on the forum boards, argue, debate, exchange ideas, teach and learn without wading through the P.C. statements trying to discern what was actually being said.

And this thread was not only about P.C. speech, but behavior as well.

I race, do not even tell me winning does not matter. It does, if you are trying to get a contract for your company you need to win it, not go oh well i tried that is what counts, because you are not going to pay your employees with i tried. Yes it is important win or lose to play the game, but sometimes it is very important to win.





Level -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 9:50:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HollyS

Bravo and thank you for succinctly getting to the heart of matter.  Each person has the right to define themselves...  To bring on the language police and insist that everyone conform to a handful of labels (defined by the nebulous "someone") serves no one.  People are complicated and personally, I like it that way.

~Holly



I would just add that people do not have the right to expect others to accept those definitions.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 10:40:52 AM)

I think it's revealing that we've been going on and on for several pages, and no one can agree about what "PC" really means.  First twicehappy complains that PC is ruining the "lifestyle," and then LadiesBladewing responds that if you break down what she's saying, it turns out that twicehappy really just wants to install her own version of PC.  (I happen to lean more toward LB's side of this than twicehappy's, but that's not why I'm bringing this up.)

Don't you think that's a strong indication, people, that "PC" is yet another one of those false issues we seem to get hung up over lately?  I think there's a very simple principle that would do away with a lot of the bullshit: Say what you mean, mean what you say, and if you say something for NO other reason than to be offensive, don't be surprised if people are offended.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

It feels to me, from reading your posts, like you are actually -asking- for some PC, centralized, "nobody can argue with this definition", version of BDSM language. I, for one, would despise this. I hate the idea of -anyone- telling me what I can and can't call what I do, can and can't call who I am, and deciding -for- me what choices I'm allowed to make or not make. I'd rather take the responsibility for making the choices myself. If this is "being PC", bring it on, because my independence is more important to me than any organization or group, with the exception of my family-of-choice.



LadiesBladewing -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 12:18:29 PM)

Exactly!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Don't you think that's a strong indication, people, that "PC" is yet another one of those false issues we seem to get hung up over lately?  I think there's a very simple principle that would do away with a lot of the bullshit: Say what you mean, mean what you say, and if you say something for NO other reason than to be offensive, don't be surprised if people are offended.




LadiesBladewing -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 12:23:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I would just add that people do not have the right to expect others to accept those definitions.


Yes.. just because I claim a position, if my expression isn't what you're looking for, I'm clearly not in that position for you (and you'd be unlikely to be in the companion position for me.) Just be straightforward about it, and make sure you talk enough to the person that what they're expecting isn't going to come as a shock to you down the road and what you're offering isn't going to be "insufficient". Relationships aren't about changing people -- the truth is, nobody can change anybody. Each of us is responsible for our own choices and our own change.

Da'Avatar ZWD

www.klashaan.org



Level -> RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? (6/11/2006 12:33:13 PM)

Well said, fellow Texan [8|].



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