RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message

tj444 -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:04:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

why dont you try reading my posts again, where exactly do i complain about what the teamster makes???


A truck driver is a teamster.

quote:

and what does Bill Gates have to do with my comments? I don't like the man or how he conducts business..


As I pointed out above : why do you complain about how much a teamster makes and not mention bill gates for making too much money?


and yet again, where did i complain about what the truck driver teamster makes??? I did not.. and again, bill gates doesnt have anything to do with being pro or anti-union.. and unions is what happens to be the topic...



erieangel -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:12:16 PM)

I'm not in a union, however, I benefit greatly by the union.

The LSW union is strong where I work (licensed social workers), even supported by the administration. The CEO of my organization himself, came up through the ranks and began his career as a social worker with the organization. My job is a non-union job and I am not a licensed social worker, so I was not even given the opportunity to join the union when I was hired. But the ways that I benefit by the union are: 1. I get a competitive wage for my work in line with what most of the social workers earn. 2. As a fill-time employee, I get the same health care, eye and dental; same sick leave, vacation time, etc. as the union workers. 3. The current union contract states that if union workers receive a wage increase at any time, the non-union workers will receive the same wage increase or 3% which ever is lessor. Unfortunately, due to Gov. Corbett's budget cuts for social services funding, we are on a wage and hiring freeze at the agency with no end in sight.

Today, I decided that I want to take a vacation day tomorrow. I emailed my boss and he said what he always says when I ask for a day off--"you can take whatever you need, just not tomorrow." He was joking, of course. I'm going to change it up and try not to ask for a day off at the last minute next time, ask him for a day I don't want and when he says, I'll say that I'll the day I really instead. My response today was "ok, but you won't find at the house, I'll either be at home or at the park."

(I work residential)




thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:17:33 PM)

quote:

and yet again, where did i complain about what the truck driver teamster makes??? I did not..


Do I understand you correctly...You are in favor of trash truck drivers making $27 an hour?



MrRodgers -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:17:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


At one time unions were needed because the coal, railroad and robber barons ran everything and had no regard for people. Now the UNIONS are the robber barons. With their unrealistic wage, benefit and work condition demands and have no regard for the people. Senior bus drivers in Philadelphia getting 6 figure incomes along with senior garbage men in New York. Public sector unions with their generous wage, benefit and pension plans that are bankrupting cities all over the US! These are the middle class, poor and elderly, on fixed incomes with their "normal" small private sector pensions. Their Home taxes will have to be raised astronomically to pay the union members generous benefits. Many will probably have to sell the home they worked all their life for. Union motto should be: I got mine, fuck you!

Of course this is anecdotal for a very few crazy old...much older union contracts and most of the real robbery is not the unions but exempt (white collar) at the state & local level.

This is hardly the case because public sector unions are in no way any comparison to private unions. Private industry has enjoyed watching the almost complete evisceration of unions with almost all private collect job action go with it resulting in the falling of union wages, benefits and pensions, if the capitalist hasn't already stolen it.

Walmart will close a store rather than allow any union membership at any store.

Almost all private unions now merely try to keep from losing more in wages, benefits and jobs from going to the real profit-center...Chinese slaves

Please, I am all eyes at your evidence and I mean real evidence that unions today are 'robber barons.' Please tell us specifically where private unions are making outlandish demands you write of, we are all dying to know.

Unions came about because FDR managed to get past the traditional capitalist fascist courts, allowing the federal and state govt. to recognize organized, collective bargaining without which America would be a big plantation...similar to a poor, indebted, 3rd world country living on a even shorter borrowed time.



MrRodgers -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:25:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

and yet again, where did i complain about what the truck driver teamster makes??? I did not..


Do I understand you correctly...You are in favor of trash truck drivers making $27 an hour?

...or better he bounce a basketball (union member) for $27 million a year ?

Get real people. America is the land of the greedy. All one must do is look at wall street, the speculators, oil companies, jobs to China and the entire medical industry.

Anybody you know die yet from a legal, for-profit, drug ? Keep in touch. Afterall, it never bothered the capitalist in America, to kill for a profit.



TheDomInTheHat -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:46:06 PM)

Often the criticism of unions is that they work in their own interest against what is perceived as optimum economic efficiency by bargaining for what is essentially more work spread over more members for more compensation in better working conditions. In contrast, the corporate profit motive, is almost never questioned and is also an economic inefficiency, since a fully efficient economy would have perfect harmony between supply and demand as well as equality of information between buyer and seller, thus profit would be extremely small, approaching zero. You simply cannot be ideology consistent if you oppose the right of workers to pool their labor and unionize, but support the right of the wealthy to pool capital and have the government charter corporations for their benefit.

What we have today is record profits for the biggest corporations in the US despite a demand shortage brought on by high unemployment and wage deflation for most workers, while executive compensation has skyrocketed as has the pre-tax and after-tax income of the extremely wealthy due to tax rates that favor wealth over work. Unfortunately, no matter how wealthy the wealthy get, their consumption patterns will not be able to make up for a drop in consumer demand by the masses who are suffering from high unemployment, declining wages, and a declining public infrastructure. Our economy is 70% consumer spending. Wages need to go up. It is especially apparent now that recent studies show that 28% of working Americans are earning less than $10/hr, which is less than the real value of the peak historical minimum wage.





Marini -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:48:36 PM)

quote:

Of course this is anecdotal for a very few crazy old...much older union contracts and most of the real robbery is not the unions but exempt (white collar) at the state & local level.

This is hardly the case because public sector unions are in no way any comparison to private unions. Private industry has enjoyed watching the almost complete evisceration of unions with almost all private collect job action go with it resulting in the falling of union wages, benefits and pensions, if the capitalist hasn't already stolen it.

Walmart will close a store rather than allow any union membership at any store.

Almost all private unions now merely try to keep from losing more in wages, benefits and jobs from going to the real profit-center...Chinese slaves

Please, I am all eyes at your evidence and I mean real evidence that unions today are 'robber barons.' Please tell us specifically where private unions are making outlandish demands you write of, we are all dying to know.

Unions came about because FDR managed to get past the traditional capitalist fascist courts, allowing the federal and state govt. to recognize organized, collective bargaining without which America would be a big plantation...similar to a poor, indebted, 3rd world country living on a even shorter borrowed time.


Thanks Mr. Rodgers!!
I also dare anyone on here bitching about unions, to work a non-union job and than start bitching about how they never get raises, are treated like dogs, and are working like slaves.

<-- I am Appreciative, Thankful and Grateful for my Union job!
[sm=bowdown.gif]

I forget some people want Americans to work in slave like conditions, with little to no benefits, job security, etc.
lol
So many Americans want a fast track to becoming a 3rd world, slave labor country!!



Need2possesu -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:49:21 PM)

It is amazing how narrow minded and short sided many of the people posting are. They are so brainwashed into thinking that earning a living which allows you to have a decent house, a decent car and take a small vacation or put your kid through college is bad. In an era where the top tier managers and owners are making several millions a year, by finding ways to fire/eliminate US citizens earning a middle class wage of $45k-$100k p/yr, it is beyond me how people could be so stupid to believe they deserve to work hard, just to live in a decrepit house, driving an old car and not being able to afford basics like food and medicine. In the 50's and 60's a man could work full time at a drugstore and earn enough to buy a small house and a cheap car, living casually, but comfortably. That same person, now lives in mommy and daddies basement or a rat trap apartment, usually getting some form of government subsidy. Unions may not be perfect and some rep's do make awesome salaries, however, their salaries do not come close to the CEO's and high level exces they battle daily, to try and keep as many workers employed for livable wages as they can.

I will never forget how a person I know, was comfortable explaining to me, I do not deserve to make the money I make. She was on welfare, living in a trailer and did not want to work for a living. When she managed to move her son in and his dad took him under wing and enabled him to earn near what I make, she was telling me how her son deserved and earned every penny he made, even though he cannot punctuate a sentence properly, due to a learning disability and would not have survived a week at work without his father covering his butt. I'm sure the fact that he started paying mommies bills and giving her money had nothing to with this opinion.

All I can say is there are 3 things leading to the decline of US living standards. 1. The top tier wage earners, who have set out on a system of globalization to undermine the regular working person. 2. The governments, that actively sway legislation in manners befitting their agendas, while nudging the average working person onto government assistance. 3. All the stupid people in this country that buy the ridiculous explanations and emotional arguments used to justify the government backing the strategy of those individuals, because the can't understand how the micro and macro economics of our country affect them.



TheDomInTheHat -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:54:33 PM)

I'm not sure if reunionizing large segments of the workforce is the answer. A lot would be improved just by state, local and federal aggressively enforcing existing labor laws. Enforcement must be broad to be effective because otherwise companies that break the law will have a competitive advantage over those that comply. During the Bush years we saw almost no Federal labor law enforcement and the result was that even large well known brands became open scofflaws when it came to properly classifying workers for overtime eligibility and the use of illegal 1099 contract arrangements to avoid payroll taxes and benefit costs.



servantforuse -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:55:49 PM)

You are right on # 2. 49 % of Americans pay no federal income tax and they like it like that. Obama also likes it like that because that group of leachers might (but hopefully) not, will keep him office for another 4 years.



tj444 -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 8:57:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

and yet again, where did i complain about what the truck driver teamster makes??? I did not..


Do I understand you correctly...You are in favor of trash truck drivers making $27 an hour?

I never said i was in favor of that, I never said i was against it.. in a small town of 1,000 with a low cost of living $57,000 would be a very generous salary that few or perhaps no one would make so not a likely salary to be offered.. in most cities, a $57,000 salary would be good but not what I would consider outrageous.. in NY it would likely be a very poor salary (from what i have seen of NY cost of living, not that I have lived there or ever would)..



Marini -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 9:00:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Need2possesu

It is amazing how narrow minded and short sided many of the people posting are. They are so brainwashed into thinking that earning a living which allows you to have a decent house, a decent car and take a small vacation or put your kid through college is bad. In an era where the top tier managers and owners are making several millions a year, by finding ways to fire/eliminate US citizens earning a middle class wage of $45k-$100k p/yr, it is beyond me how people could be so stupid to believe they deserve to work hard, just to live in a decrepit house, driving an old car and not being able to afford basics like food and medicine. In the 50's and 60's a man could work full time at a drugstore and earn enough to buy a small house and a cheap car, living casually, but comfortably. That same person, now lives in mommy and daddies basement or a rat trap apartment, usually getting some form of government subsidy. Unions may not be perfect and some rep's do make awesome salaries, however, their salaries do not come close to the CEO's and high level exces they battle daily, to try and keep as many workers employed for livable wages as they can.

I will never forget how a person I know, was comfortable explaining to me, I do not deserve to make the money I make. She was on welfare, living in a trailer and did not want to work for a living. When she managed to move her son in and his dad took him under wing and enabled him to earn near what I make, she was telling me how her son deserved and earned every penny he made, even though he cannot punctuate a sentence properly, due to a learning disability and would not have survived a week at work without his father covering his butt. I'm sure the fact that he started paying mommies bills and giving her money had nothing to with this opinion.

OMG, I love this!!!

All I can say is there are 3 things leading to the decline of US living standards. 1. The top tier wage earners, who have set out on a system of globalization to undermine the regular working person. 2. The governments, that actively sway legislation in manners befitting their agendas, while nudging the average working person onto government assistance. 3. All the stupid people in this country that buy the ridiculous explanations and emotional arguments used to justify the government backing the strategy of those individuals, because the can't understand how the micro and macro economics of our country affect them.


Many want us to RACE to the bottom, we are not sliding downhill fast enough.
We need more people poor, disenfranchised and in bad shape!!!
Welcome, I already like you!!
Please come back and play with us more often, we need more people that are awake and aware posting!!
[;)]



TheDomInTheHat -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/2/2012 9:06:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Need2possesu
All I can say is there are 3 things leading to the decline of US living standards. 1. The top tier wage earners, who have set out on a system of globalization to undermine the regular working person. 2. The governments, that actively sway legislation in manners befitting their agendas, while nudging the average working person onto government assistance. 3. All the stupid people in this country that buy the ridiculous explanations and emotional arguments used to justify the government backing the strategy of those individuals, because the can't understand how the micro and macro economics of our country affect them.


++

Globalization has generally been a net loser for the middle class the way it has been carried out so far. We have nearly frictionless capital mobility but there is no way to have that kind of labor mobility, short of free immigration and star trek style teleportion. If there was, we would all work in big wealthy cities to maximize our wages, then beam back to our inexpensive homes in the developing world.

The big problem though is the ideology that a tiny elite have the right to unlimited economic freedom by virtue of their wealth and connections, but the rest of us are a bunch of godless tyrannical communists for daring to use collective power towards laws that protect our economic interests. Why is the system that works the best for the elite, considered pure and falsely equated to freedom, but the system that works best for most people (such as Northern Europe) is evil? I think my freedom to take a few weeks off of work each year without starving to death or losing my home or job is just as important if not more so than the right of a few uber-wealthy to optimize their portfolios.



LaTigresse -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 4:23:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Seeing the inner workings of two unions made me realize they are no different than our government.

Feeding the masses a line of bullshit, trying to get them to see their value and how necessary they are..........all while living fat on the dues.


Do not the members of a union have a say in how much the administrators of a union are paid? Is it not the duty of every member of a union to point out fraud and graft when they see it? What did you do when you saw fraud and graft?

quote:

And.........making it nearly impossible to get rid of the rotten apples.


By bad apples I am assuming that you are talking about those who have not mastered their craft but expect to be paid as if they had. It has been my exact opposite experience. If the super on a job finds a union laborer or tradsman to be incompetant they get show up pay(1/2 day wages straight time)and get sent back to the hall and the dispatcher gets told why. The dispatcher will send a more skilled worker and the offender will catch a great deal of grief up to and including expulsion from the union.


What do I do? Nothing. The Union leaders I know are clients of mine. They pay their bills and how they conduct their union business is not my problem to solve. I am not a union employee and will NEVER be one. I wouldn't even apply for a position at a union facility, so it is a moot point.

When my boss, also the owner of a union shop, tried to fire an employee for repeated instances of leaving the shop unattended and sleeping on the job, he was forced by the union to UNfired her. Because of her incompetence he finally closed the shop. She was the most worthless, ignorant creature I have ever had the misfortune to deal with in a business environment.

When Square D Company tried to fired a person that had missed over 100 days of work in one year, they had to wait and document the problem for 4 more years before even attempting it. She was worthless as tits on a boar hog.

When the union bargained so agressively for one of the Square D shops in the Chicago area, the union workers cheered, then moaned a year later. When the VP of Square D walked out of the bargaining meeting he told his minions to shut the place down and they did. Moving all of that production to Mexico. All because the beloved union didn't feel that the employees should pay any of their health insurance premium.



kalikshama -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 5:36:35 AM)

quote:

49 % of Americans pay no federal income tax and they like it like that. Obama also likes it like that because that group of leachers might (but hopefully) not, will keep him office for another 4 years.


And how many of these are in a union?

46 Percent of Americans Exempt From Federal Income Tax in 2011

The phenomenon of low-earning Americans escaping the federal income tax burden isn't a new one. In 2002, The Wall Street Journal coined the term "lucky duckies" to describe people who were exempt from income tax because they didn't make enough money.

That phrase, unfortunately for the WSJ, attracted no end of ridicule, from the NYT, The New Republic, and elsewhere.

"Had the editors ever met a person of little means?" wondered Farhad Majoo at Salon. "Did they realize that being poor, while perhaps an attractive tax shelter, tended to come with such hard-to-bear downsides as not knowing where your next meal will come from?"

In most cases, tax filers who don’t pay federal income tax are still on the hook for other taxes. They can still be responsible for payroll taxes, withheld from their paychecks, and for excise taxes on gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, and other goods. And they may have to pay income tax at the state or local level.

Many filers exempt from federal income tax are the beneficiaries of programs aimed at helping the working poor. At the NYT, Bruce Bartlett points out that between 2000 and 2008, during the presidency of George W. Bush, the percentage of filers who paid no federal income tax rose from 25.2 percent to 36.3 percent. During this time, Bartlett says, Republicans added a significant child credit to the tax code, resulting in a rise in nonpayers.

In fact, the number of filers paying no federal income tax has hovered between 40 and 50 percent for the past several years.

In 2010, 45 percent of households paid no federal income tax, according to the Tax Policy Center. In 2009, it was about 47 percent. In 2008, 49 percent were exempt from federal income tax.

All in all, according to the Tax Policy Center, there will be 76 million nonpaying “tax units” in 2011. The Center defines a tax unit as “an individual, or a married couple who file a tax return jointly, along with all dependents of that individual or married couple.”

And not all of those tax units represent the working class.

Nine million nonpayers, or 12.8 percent of the total, are in the middle income quintile. Another 1.9 million -- 2.6 percent of the total -- are in the second-highest quintile, and some 443,000, or 0.6 percent of the total, are in the top quintile.

The Tax Policy Center breaks down that last number a bit further: There are 78,000 non-paying units in the top 95th to 99th income percentile, 24,000 in the top 1 percentile, and 3,000 in the top tenth of a percentile.

This group has a nickname, too: they're the HINTs, for high income, no taxes.

These might be people who get their income from tax-exempt bonds or overseas sources, as CNN reported last year.

Or they might be people who have incurred losses from partnerships or S Corporations. Or people who have run up "extraordinary" medical or dental bills. As The Fiscal Times noted in December, these are other ways to realize one's HINT status.

And as The Fiscal Times points out, they're all "perfectly legal."

Full story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/28/46-percent-of-americans-e_n_886293.html



Winterapple -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 6:43:58 AM)

Actors join the Screen Actors Guild because
they can't work in the mainstream industry
without a SAG card. The percentage of guild
members who make their living as actors is
quite small, less than ten percent I believe.
The number of actors who make millions acting
is even smaller. Special Snowflakes prefer
private clubs over unions.

When the screenwriters guild went on strike
a few years ago some of the top rung
guys balked at going on strike and crossed
the picket lines. So, some could care less
about the union they were obliged to join
to work. Of course when an issue comes up
like getting screen credit for the work or
money due to them I'm sure they sing a
different tune and start waving those union
cards proudly.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 7:20:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

For example, there should be hardly anyone in Hollywood who is conservative - almost all of the major professions in film belong to unions. Prominent Hollywood Republicans include the following: Arnold Schwatrznegger, Bruce Willis, Mel Gibson, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, Drew Carrey, Freddie Prinze jr. , Bo Derek, Charlton Heston, Chuck Norris , Clint Eastwood, Heather Locklear, Jean Claude van Damme, Kelsey Grammer, Lauren Bush, Matt LeBlanc, LL Cool J, Patricia Heaton, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Shannon Doherty, Sylvester Stallone, Tom Selleck, and Tom Clancy (this is off of the Internet, and I hope accurate). But my point is, wtf - actors are part of a union, and they get paid union wages. Why are these actors Republican (a party that has been historically anti-union)??




They may be part of the union but they are hardly getting union wages (they get far better pay than union wages), FTP. They don't owe anything to the union that they belong to. Why would you think that they would?


Here's the thing. If you work your way up through a profession and industry that is unionized (even if these stars can now call their own shots) they are being completely hypocritical. Actors, writers and many others in the movie industry would be exploited if organizations like SAG did not exist. The issue is that now that they've "made it" they no longer feel others are entitled to the same protections that they enjoyed when they were young, naive, and starting out. It is an issue of fairness. They owe something to other struggling actors out there who will only ever get small parts, union wages, and who struggle to make ends meet. Not to mention the huge numbers of people who work behind the scenes on a film. Films can't be made without those small part actors, and all the behind the scenes people too. The last I checked all these A-list actors are very dependent on a huge union machinery to get the films filmed and distributed. It is completely disingenuous of them to be anti-union when they gain their notoriety and make their money off of union labor. Personally, I've never supported exploitation. Why should all the others who work on these films be exploited just because a few people can negotiate big money? Money they can only make because they started out making union wages to begin with, and then gained notoriety from that? I believe people should not forget where they come from...forgetting one's roots, and forgetting that others still struggle is never a good thing. [sm=2cents.gif]



thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 7:37:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

Of course this is anecdotal for a very few crazy old...much older union contracts and most of the real robbery is not the unions but exempt (white collar) at the state & local level.

This is hardly the case because public sector unions are in no way any comparison to private unions. Private industry has enjoyed watching the almost complete evisceration of unions with almost all private collect job action go with it resulting in the falling of union wages, benefits and pensions, if the capitalist hasn't already stolen it.

Walmart will close a store rather than allow any union membership at any store.

Almost all private unions now merely try to keep from losing more in wages, benefits and jobs from going to the real profit-center...Chinese slaves

Please, I am all eyes at your evidence and I mean real evidence that unions today are 'robber barons.' Please tell us specifically where private unions are making outlandish demands you write of, we are all dying to know.

Unions came about because FDR managed to get past the traditional capitalist fascist courts, allowing the federal and state govt. to recognize organized, collective bargaining without which America would be a big plantation...similar to a poor, indebted, 3rd world country living on a even shorter borrowed time.


Thanks Mr. Rodgers!!
I also dare anyone on here bitching about unions, to work a non-union job and than start bitching about how they never get raises, are treated like dogs, and are working like slaves.

<-- I am Appreciative, Thankful and Grateful for my Union job!
[sm=bowdown.gif]

I forget some people want Americans to work in slave like conditions, with little to no benefits, job security, etc.
lol
So many Americans want a fast track to becoming a 3rd world, slave labor country!!


The economics of wage slavery are much better than actual slavery where the slave owner has acquisition cost and maintainence cost of non-productive elderly and young slaves.



OsideGirl -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 7:38:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

Competence. Pfft. I have worked at companies in the past that did not have a union and currently at one that does have a union. The competence point is total bullshit. We have just as many (if not more) slackers here at this union gig than I saw at my previous employer. We have one such zero retiring this week after forty years of service. Totally useless - but the union protected this guy's job all those years. I'm glad that you are proud of your union membership. I am just as proud not to be a part of mine. They can kiss my ass.


How would one become an electrician or a plumber?



I guess going to school and taking the test would be out of the question.....



A guess seems to indicate that you do not know.
The answer is:
The trade unions have an apprenticeship program and that is how most tradesmen acquire their knowledge.


I do know. Go to school and take the test. Which is exactly what my ex-husband and my little brother did.









thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 7:39:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

You are right on # 2. 49 % of Americans pay no federal income tax and they like it like that.


What do you have to validate this moronic post? Who the fuck likes being too poor to even pay income tax. Do you have any idea how foolish your post is on it's face?

quote:

Obama also likes it like that because that group of leachers might (but hopefully) not, will keep him office for another 4 years.


Do you believe that they should instead vote for the asswipes who put them in the poor house?



Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.078125