RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union

RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 7:41:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl Here's the thing: You're so brainwashed by the union that you won't even admit that $56,000 a year (probably between $70k - $75k after benefits and overtime) to drive a truck and push a button is ridiculous. Instead you're here trying to justify a job that requires no education and a skill set that almost everyone with a drivers license possesses, deserves that kind of income. Especially considering the other public services that are being cut due to lack of funding. I have not tried to justify anything. You might want to go to google and search the historical relationship between the wages of teamsters and school teachers. You might want to Google.....San Diego Garbage men don't belong to the Teamsters. A teamster is a truckdriver. A union truck driver would be a member of the teamsters union. So now you know yes san diego trash truck drivers are teamsters. Nope, they're not. The Union representing City of San Diego Sanitation Drivers: American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).

thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 7:49:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Seeing the inner workings of two unions made me realize they are no different than our government. Feeding the masses a line of bullshit, trying to get them to see their value and how necessary they are..........all while living fat on the dues. Do not the members of a union have a say in how much the administrators of a union are paid? Is it not the duty of every member of a union to point out fraud and graft when they see it? What did you do when you saw fraud and graft? quote: And.........making it nearly impossible to get rid of the rotten apples. By bad apples I am assuming that you are talking about those who have not mastered their craft but expect to be paid as if they had. It has been my exact opposite experience. If the super on a job finds a union laborer or tradsman to be incompetant they get show up pay(1/2 day wages straight time)and get sent back to the hall and the dispatcher gets told why. The dispatcher will send a more skilled worker and the offender will catch a great deal of grief up to and including expulsion from the union. What do I do? Nothing. The Union leaders I know are clients of mine. They pay their bills and how they conduct their union business is not my problem to solve. You see them committing felonies and "it is none of your business" because they pay your rent and buy your groceries. Would it also be "none of your business" you saw one of your "clients" raping someone? quote: I am not a union employee and will NEVER be one. I wouldn't even apply for a position at a union facility, so it is a moot point. And yet you have no problem working for them in a non union relationship. quote: When my boss, also the owner of a union shop, tried to fire an employee for repeated instances of leaving the shop unattended and sleeping on the job, he was forced by the union to UNfired her. Of course you have some sort of validation for this or is this just what you were told by this poor fellow that the union fucked so hard quote: Because of her incompetence he finally closed the shop. She was the most worthless, ignorant creature I have ever had the misfortune to deal with in a business environment. The incompetence of one person caused a productive business to close it's doors????[8\|] quote: When Square D Company tried to fired a person that had missed over 100 days of work in one year, they had to wait and document the problem for 4 more years before even attempting it. She was worthless as tits on a boar hog. When the union bargained so agressively for one of the Square D shops in the Chicago area, the union workers cheered, then moaned a year later. When the VP of Square D walked out of the bargaining meeting he told his minions to shut the place down and they did. Moving all of that production to Mexico. All because the beloved union didn't feel that the employees should pay any of their health insurance premium. I believe you are mistaken as to the cause of the moving the production to mexico. Tell us again how much square d pays it's mexican labor???insurance premiums indeed[8\|]

thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 7:56:45 AM)
quote: A teamster is a truckdriver. A union truck driver would be a member of the teamsters union. So now you know yes san diego trash truck drivers are teamsters. quote: Nope, they're not. The Union representing City of San Diego Sanitation Drivers: American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME). Once again you are wrong. A truck driver is a teamster. That the teamsters/drivers belong to a different union does not change the fact that a teamster is a truck driver. Are there any other "word games" you would like to play or can we get back to why you think that a person who operates a piece of $100,000+equipment on the highway is not worth a chicken shit $27 an hour?

thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 7:59:41 AM)
quote: A guess seems to indicate that you do not know. The answer is: The trade unions have an apprenticeship program and that is how most tradesmen acquire their knowledge. quote: I do know. Go to school and take the test. Which is exactly what my ex-husband and my little brother did. Which school did they go to and what test did they take?

Marini -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 8:24:32 AM)
quote: The economics of wage slavery are much better than actual slavery where the slave owner has acquisition cost and maintainence cost of non-productive elderly and young slaves. BINGO!! Have you ever seen a country with so many people fighting to go backwards? How many anti-government people are lined up to obtain every subsidy, benefit or hand out they can get these days? Peace

searching4mysir -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 8:25:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: A guess seems to indicate that you do not know. The answer is: The trade unions have an apprenticeship program and that is how most tradesmen acquire their knowledge. quote: I do know. Go to school and take the test. Which is exactly what my ex-husband and my little brother did. Which school did they go to and what test did they take? Well, there are schools that teach people to be electricians: http://www.technical-schools-guide.com/newjersey-electricianenergytrades-schools.html and then take an exam: http://www.ehow.com/how_4922513_become-new-jersey-licensed-electrician.html Is "Electrician" not a trade?

thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 8:39:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: A guess seems to indicate that you do not know. The answer is: The trade unions have an apprenticeship program and that is how most tradesmen acquire their knowledge. quote: I do know. Go to school and take the test. Which is exactly what my ex-husband and my little brother did. Which school did they go to and what test did they take? Well, there are schools that teach people to be electricians: http://www.technical-schools-guide.com/newjersey-electricianenergytrades-schools.html and then take an exam: http://www.ehow.com/how_4922513_become-new-jersey-licensed-electrician.html Is "Electrician" not a trade? My post listed that as a trade why would you have a question about that? Perhaps you might avail yourself of google and find out which schools train the most electricians...private for profit schools or "trade apprenticeship programs" Your second link is misleading it is about licensing an electrical contractor not electricians. This from your link: How Can I Get a Journeyman's Electrical License in New Jersey? Things You'll Need Five years of hands-on electrical experience or a state-approved alternative Proof of age (you must be at least 21) High school diploma or GED Instructions Becoming a New Jersey Licensed Electrician 1 Gather documentation proving that you have at least five years of hands-on experience in the electrical field. The state of New Jersey will accept other alternatives, such as proof of the completion of an apprenticeship program or proof that you are a journeyman electrician, as outlined in the state's description of qualification for applicants (see Resources). 2 Take the electrical contractor's examination. Dates can be found on the website for the New Jersey Division of Consumer affairs...

angelikaJ -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 12:27:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569 quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: YSG This is why Im a union member and proud of it. quote: Mao Zedong Your apparant hero, Mao Zedong, flat out murdered 40-70 MILLION of his own people because they refused to subjugate themselves to him. That is why I've never have and never will be a union (Communist Party) member. and damn proud of it. Labor Unions began in this country in the mid-19th century. Your timing is more than a little bit off. Correct, they did start in that time period...but many of the early union movements were communist inspired, communist instigated and communist led. Even if the average working stiff didn't know about the communist influence. Check out the Wobblies(Industrial Workers of the World[IWW], Chicago, 1905). Also check the strong resemblence between the last 5 letters of 'communist' and the word 'union'. Communism didn't just start in 1917. 'hawk Uni is a root-word that comes from the Latin meaning one. I am not going to list all the Uni words so that you can compare Unicorns to communists. (But since words are important: "The word Kommunismus/Communismus was coined as a neologism (both in German and late Latin), and sporadically employed in a derogatory way during and after the religious wars that set Europe on fire from the Late Middle Ages to Early Modernity. The doctrines of 16th century radical currents such as the Hutterites, the Hussites and the Taborites were described as communisticae by some of their coeval enemies and later detractors. Then the word was engulfed, until it sensationally re-emerged in 19th century. All those 16th century heresies proclaimed sharing of goods and communal living, and some of them advocated forced expropriation of the nobility and the clergy. During the German Peasants' War (1524-1525), a chain of riotous events that sent waves of rebellion across Central Europe, one of preacher Thomas Müntzer's battle cries was Omnia sunt communia, all things are common. It should go without saying that such an emphasis on sharing was deeply rooted in Christian history and doctrine. "Erant illis omnia communia" (Act 4,32): "Things were in common among them". And the Rule of St. Augustine (ca. 400 AC) says: "Et non dicatis aliquid proprium, sed sint vobis omnia communia": "Call nothing your own, but let everything be yours in common". Commūnis. Let's take a close look at this Latin adjective. Commūnis means "common", "universal", "generally shared". Mūnĭa means "duties", "public offices", "tolls", "excises", and any kind of civil services and obligations to the community. Therefore, Cum mūnis means "with duties", "with dues", "with engagements", i.e. obliged to take part in the life of a regulated community. " Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Root_word_of_communism#ixzz22VrRovTj

LookieNoNookie -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 3:17:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YSG This is why Im a union member and proud of it. Unions suck. We just had a strike here in Washington State. Claiming "unfair Business Practices". What a bunch of fucking hooey. Not a damn one of them was being asked to work in unsafe working conditions....indeed, WMA (Waste Management) has one of the highest safety records on the books. It was nothing more than a way to get more pay because...their contract had run its course. These guys were making between 65K and 125k depending on overtime. The bottom end....65K (by the way...plus benies that the average Joe will never see that amount to 10's of thousands) ain't bad....in any environment....in this one...pretty sweet. Fucking losers. Fuck unions. I think I'll shit in my dumpster next week.

Musicmystery -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 3:18:20 PM)
How did you get from this one union to all unions?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 3:50:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery How did you get from this one union to all unions? I didn't...this example is simply one. I've had other experience with unions dating back to 1978 which formed my opinions. I've posted them previously...happy to re-write again to explain my thoughts. Which essentially are....unions suck.

Musicmystery -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 4:17:58 PM)
I belong to three unions. They are comprised of people, and they do a lot of stupid things. But the right to collective bargaining is nonetheless worth the bullshit. The idea that unions can charge whatever they wish is economic nonsense, as is the notion that monopolies can charge whatever they want. What they can do is maximize their agenda within market constraints if they need it less than the people across the bargaining table. That's actually not a lot of power. Now if management are idiots too--and that occurs frequently--then yes, crazy shit can happen.

thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 4:37:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie Unions suck. We just had a strike here in Washington State. Claiming "unfair Business Practices". What a bunch of fucking hooey. Not a damn one of them was being asked to work in unsafe working conditions....indeed, WMA (Waste Management) has one of the highest safety records on the books. It was nothing more than a way to get more pay because...their contract had run its course. Where do you get off telling someone else how much money they are allowed to make? Do you seek to put limits on how much money bill gates makes? quote: These guys were making between 65K and 125k depending on overtime. The bottom end....65K (by the way...plus benies that the average Joe will never see that amount to 10's of thousands) ain't bad....in any environment....in this one...pretty sweet. My fucking welfare check is more than that...and it is tax exempt. quote: Fucking losers. Fuck unions. I think I'll shit in my dumpster next week. Sounds to me like you would like to bring back slavery. quote: The bottom end....65K (by the way...plus benies that the average Joe will never see that amount to 10's of thousands) ain't bad....in any environment....in this one...pretty sweet. According to osha or nlrb where do trash truck operators rate on the list of most dangerous jobs?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/3/2012 11:51:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx My fucking welfare check is more than that...and it is tax exempt. (Color me surprised) According to osha or nlrb where do trash truck operators rate on the list of most dangerous jobs? I haven't got a clue...where do they?

subrob1967 -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/4/2012 5:43:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx My fucking welfare check is more than that...and it is tax exempt. Accordinng to the SSA you're lying. But it is amazing how you went from garbage truck drivers are Teamsters to all truck drivers are called a teamster. Nice attempt at sleigh of hand, but no one is buying it.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/4/2012 6:13:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I belong to three unions. They are comprised of people, and they do a lot of stupid things. But the right to collective bargaining is nonetheless worth the bullshit. The idea that unions can charge whatever they wish is economic nonsense, as is the notion that monopolies can charge whatever they want. What they can do is maximize their agenda within market constraints if they need it less than the people across the bargaining table. That's actually not a lot of power. Now if management are idiots too--and that occurs frequently--then yes, crazy shit can happen. I have no problems with union members...much of my family were in unions. I have a huge problem with those who run them. They couldn't care less about the people they purport to serve.

igor2003 -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/4/2012 7:47:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie Unions suck. We just had a strike here in Washington State. Claiming "unfair Business Practices". What a bunch of fucking hooey. You are entitled to your opinion, however it would carry more weight if you could explain how the union's claim is untrue. Otherwise your claim of "hooey" is just as much "hooey" as theirs is. Not a damn one of them was being asked to work in unsafe working conditions....indeed, WMA (Waste Management) has one of the highest safety records on the books. "Unfair" and "unsafe" are two different things, and as far as "unsafe" can you explain how you know how safe or unsafe their working conditions are? Can you provide a link that shows their safety record rather than just making an unsubstantiated claim? According to what the union claims, sanitation work is the fifth most dangerous occupation in the U.S. It was nothing more than a way to get more pay because...their contract had run its course. These guys were making between 65K and 125k depending on overtime. Can you substantiate this? When I worked for the local sanitation crew many years ago (I was one of the lucky ones that got to ride the back, manually lifting and emptying the cans into the truck.) and we were paid a set wage...basically a salary...so the quicker we completed our route the more we made per hour. If we completed our route in 6 hours, so much the better, but if a route took 10 hours it was just tough shit. You got paid the same either way. No such thing as overtime...but of course we were non-union. The bottom end....65K (by the way...plus benies that the average Joe will never see that amount to 10's of thousands) ain't bad....in any environment....in this one...pretty sweet. Fucking losers. Fuck unions. I think I'll shit in my dumpster next week. Actually, "shit" is not really that bad compared to some of the other things sanitation workers sometimes have to deal with, like dead, diseased animals and toxic waste that isn't disposed of properly, and is instead just dumped into a dumpster so that a sanitation worker that is unaware of it being there then has to deal with it. Yep, pretty safe, huh? Most stories do have two sides to them. When I entered “Washington state sanitation strike” in the search engine this is what I came up with and is what, I am assuming, you are referring to, from the union point of view about the (upcoming at the time) strike on the union website. http://www.wslc.org/reports/2010/March/25.htm#Thursday Both WMI and RSG enjoy healthy profit margins thanks to the hard work of their employees, but have made unreasonable demands at the bargaining table. WMI has demanded that the contract include language that would allow the company to make unspecified wage cuts at any time. Republic has made a similar demand for workers to accept unlimited pay cuts to fund their own retirement. Workers at WMI have also reported to Local 174 that the company has been consistently shorting their paychecks. "I don't think it’s too much to ask an $11 billion corporation to stop shorting our paychecks, to put a little extra money into safety devices that protect us and the public and to stop retaliating against workers that get injured on the job," said Jeff Anderson a 27-year roll-off driver at WMI…. 　 It was brought up in one earlier post about how dangerous sanitation work is: …Waste collection and disposal ranks as the fifth most dangerous job in the U.S. and sanitation workers are more likely to die on the job than firefighters or police officers. 　 And, as to whether the sanitation workers are members of the Teamster union or not: Teamster Locals 117 and 174 represent more than 700 sanitation workers at WMI and Allied Waste across King County. The Teamsters Union represents more than 32,000 sanitation workers nationwide with 7,000 members at WMI and 8,000 at Allied Waste/Republic Services. 　 Also, all sanitation workers aren’t truck drivers. Depending on a particular areas waste disposal methods there are often a lot of people working with the waste after the trucks are dumped, and those jobs are often a lot less safe than it is for the drivers picking up the trash.

thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/4/2012 4:59:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx My fucking welfare check is more than that...and it is tax exempt. quote: Accordinng to the SSA you're lying. From your link: quote: "Paying income tax on Social Security benefits Updated 08/03/2012 02:32 PM \| ID# 493 Do I have to pay income taxes on the benefits I receive? You will have to pay federal taxes on your Social Security benefits if you file a federal tax return as an individual and your total income is more than $25,000. My ss check is less than $25,000. My other welfare check is tax exempt in it's totality. quote: But it is amazing how you went from garbage truck drivers are Teamsters to all truck drivers are called a teamster. Nice attempt at sleigh of hand, but no one is buying it. Please read what I posted. Garbage truck drivers are truck drivers. All who drive a truck for hire are teamsters.Therefore all garbage truck drivers are teamsters. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

thompsonx -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/4/2012 5:14:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx My fucking welfare check is more than that...and it is tax exempt. (Color me surprised) How bout we just color you ignorant? According to osha or nlrb where do trash truck operators rate on the list of most dangerous jobs? quote: I haven't got a clue...where do they? Fifth. Would it be too much to ask you to come to the discussion with some modicum of knowledge of the subject at hand instead of the ignorant facil pap you post?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: 7 Reasons You Should Join a Union (8/4/2012 7:08:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx My fucking welfare check is more than that...and it is tax exempt. (Color me surprised) How bout we just color you ignorant? According to osha or nlrb where do trash truck operators rate on the list of most dangerous jobs? quote: I haven't got a clue...where do they? Fifth. Would it be too much to ask you to come to the discussion with some modicum of knowledge of the subject at hand instead of the ignorant facil ("facile") pap you post? I'm presuming, Thompson, your statement of "According to osha or nlrb where do trash truck operators rate on the list of most dangerous jobs?" is some kind of attempt to suggest that I said such a thing...which I did not...so, I'll just stay with the facile pap I'm currently spewing. As to knowledge, I've lived it.

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