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RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 6:45:31 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity
You are only a victim if you choose to be.

This statement is false, though it is often uttered by internet "therapists" who have no idea what they are talking about. If you really need me to, I will post links, but seriously, come on. There's a high probability that the readership of kink message boards contains a larger percentage of survivors of childhood sexual abuse than the general population. So next time, you might want to check yourself before you post something else that says "fuck you" to a large section of the CollarChat readership.


They were both referring to adults.



< Message edited by kalikshama -- 8/11/2012 6:47:43 PM >

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(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 6:48:00 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity

I have been in the position of being completely blown away that someone I trusted turned out to be a monster. When it was a family member I got myself and those I loved far away. When I found out it was a friend, that relationship ended without delay. When I disovered it was an intimate partner, it was not enough to get away from that person. I had to really look at myself, my actions, what I contributed to the situation. If I don't learn from my mistakes, then I am doomed to repeat them. A painful enough lesson only has to be learned once. The fact that someone could come that close and do that much harm means I have to shore up my defenses.

At the end of the day, the indefensible is still indefensible. If you don't know, you can't consent. If you are unable to consent, then, at least in that time and space, anything that would require consent becomes a hard limit. If any of those things are done, then I suppose that is nonconsentual and, therefore, automatically predatory. A mistake or a miscommunication is one thing, but intentionally exploiting or manipulating a situation to cause consent to be given when a person otherwise would not give it or nonconsent is diregareded is another beast altogether. We do have to learn how to protect ourselves and have the voice to say delineate our boundaries. We have to learn to communicate clearly...in both directions. We need to be honest.

SD


In response to RedMagic:

This is a snippet of my original post to this thread.

There was no "fuck you" in what I said. We are talking about willfully "victimized" individuals here. I have already submitted that there are reasons why victimization may happen that have absolutely nothing to do with being an idiot or a master manipulator. The problem is, regardless of how things got to that point, not stepping back and figuring out why on earth it keeps happening over and over again choosing to be a victim again in the future. I'm sorry. There is therapy, self help books, support groups, and more to help people move from victimhood to survivorhood to thriving. If they aren't utilized, then we are just to snuggle them up and tell them they how terrible what happened was and that they don't have responsibility because of some thing from their past?

Bad things happen. That's a fact. You can do everything right and get run over in this life. You are a victim in that case. When you do not deal with what happened to you and develop a pattern of getting hurt over and over again, that no longer qualifies as a victim. We can treat a situation like that as a victim scenario, but it is not helpful to them. I'm sorry. At some point we have to pick ourselves up, treat our wounds, and learn how to function again. Given my own background, this is not even remotely on point. I may have stated the point with to hard an edge to it, but I still stand behind personal responsibility and healing past hurt so that we do not have to live it fresh the rest of our lives.

SD

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 7:06:58 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


[



To kiwisub: Your comments about yourself do not include important context, which is that you're a nurse. You know how to move through traumatic events. A lot of people don't, even if they are level-headed. It isn't a matter of treating a sub like a victim. It's the material fact that people don't always react the way they expect when they get a gun to their head for the first time. I mean this metaphorically, although a good friend of mine (female) did engage in gun play with a guy she didn't know well, so it isn't just a metaphor. The point is that the top/dom needs to be aware that the sub may not know how to navigate through trauma (or subspace), and verbal cues may be "off" or unforthcoming. It doesn't drop someone into victimhood to recognize that their reactions might be unusual or diminished as a result of powerful sensations they aren't used to experiencing.



RedMagic1 - i find interesting your comment that the fact that i am a nurse enables me to move through traumatic events in my personal life. I wouldn't completely deny that my professional life has enabled me to deal with some things in my private life - but even though i was practising in an ER, and dealing with all that angst - i still carried on in an abusive (not physical) in my marriage for 13-odd years.
Being strong in my work life didn't translate over to my private life. I was as much of a victim as anyone else, and when it ended, i healed by myself as much as i could - then went to a therapist so i wouldn't make the same mistakes again. When i realised that i wasn't as strong privately as i was professionally, i took steps to remedy the situation.

The fact that i could recognise that i needed more help was how, i think, I acted as a responsible adult.

And yes, when i played for the first time , i had no idea of what i would experience. I would say i was lucky enough to be with an experienced and ethical dom - but i would also take credit for picking him.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 7:38:26 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity
Just from my position, you are putting Carol in the position of helpless, delicate flower.

Allow me to clarify then. Carol made it through 35 years of life submitting to the world and she did just fine. The reason for that is she has fairly decent predator radar. I'd rather not address this topic further in public though. Let's just leave it at... "you're missing a few big pieces of the picture".

Call it a double standard if you will. Here... how about this. Anyone who's got 15 or more years of happy marriage between them can feel free to throw any cautious I or anyone else has out the window in favor of... well... actual reality.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 7:42:08 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

my experience from play parties is that these casual couples that hook up, talk to each other for about 10 minutes about general shit that has nothing to do with bdsm, think they connect on some superficial level and neither one has negotiated anything at all. The sub never says anything about what they can and cannot take or what they want done, the Dom/me never talks about what they want to do. The two just play and do what they want and just let their horniness rule the play.

And there isn't one thing wrong with that if that is what THEY like and want...........luci

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RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 7:53:47 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

At that point I took her aside and told her to fucking think and ask a guy if he wants to date her before she does the split for him, she then had the hump with me.... That shit really does happen...


When I was into the nightclub and raves scene I would see this shit night after night. She would fuck him in the bathroom or parking lot or they would go to a hotel room or whatever and then the next day she would complain that he left right after, didn't even leave his phone number and then crying because he gave the "wrong" impression that he didn't want to stick around as her boyfriend. Well....duh! He wasn't at the club looking for pussy for a long term relationship.


And that's how I kind of feel about a situation where a woman hooks up with someone for some kinky bondage and bdsm but then doesn't want her naughty bits touched. Really? You can tie me up, beat me, do all kinds of hot, sexy things but when you touch my private parts, I'm gonna scream rape and crumple into a heap and you're a piece of shit. Are you fucking kidding me? Get real. I have no sympathy for that kind of nonsense. Yeah, no means no. I hear ya. In a perfect world it does. But perhaps one ought not to get herself into such a situation with someone she can't absolutely trust. She bears the responsibility for putting herself in that situation to begin with. She's an adult. She needs to accept responsibility, get over it and quit whining. Sorry if you can't see that...........luci

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RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 8:05:19 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity
Amen! You are only a victim if you choose to be. That goes in the bedroom, in the dungeon, in the workplace, in the home, in the grocery store, in the car.....Submissive or not really has nothing to do with it.

I'd amend that slightly. It is certainly possible to be victimized through random activity. You could just be buying a mountain dew at the convenience store when it's robbed. Your point is solid though in that you can dramatically reduce the chances. I keep hearing lots of good things about the book, The Gift of Fear.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 8:23:04 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: poise
Would the end result of an "I don't know" answer be that the toy remains in the bag, or is it
more appealing to you as the Top to be the first one offering them experience with said toy?
I'm curious as to why it is considered the worst reply, and am imagining it to be because it
leaves the decision making solely in the hands of the Top?
Hello poise. KoM in a further reply mentioned something that goes with this. That being if there is a direct lie or a lie by omission. I didn't go into that because I am hoping that negotiations before play are honest between all parties. I see lies/dishonesty during that time to also be in the category of NOT MY FAULT AS A TOP. <grin>

My personal stance to your question means that I leave the toy in the bag. I'm not that person's Dominant to tell them they have to receive it. As a casual player, I'm not there for their growth or increase their pain tolerance. I have had casual scenes where the bottom (usually more in the friend category, rather than meet and beat) specifically wants the play to allow them a release through tears. I can still manage that without using the toys that aren't a certainty for them.

The "I don't know" answer between casual players can be something of a pitfall for the top. It's one good way for the bottom to come back later and say they didn't know the top was going to do that or they didn't really agree that X would happen during the scene.


ETA a general comment.

Most of My comments on this thread have been more focused on the casual play side of the discussion; Not the relationship type. I know that's an odd frame of reference for some folks, but this is one of those areas that you see more in casual. In an actual relationship, I really would expect that the parties know each other better than this. That ten minutes of talk then tie them to the cross mentality isn't necessarily there between seasoned Dominant and submissive. (If it is, add that to the problem of victim mentality.) It is much more prevalent between top and bottom. One of the reasons why I don't consider that casual play scene to be D/s.





< Message edited by LadyPact -- 8/11/2012 8:36:13 PM >

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 8:39:32 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity
Just from my position, you are putting Carol in the position of helpless, delicate flower.

Allow me to clarify then. Carol made it through 35 years of life submitting to the world and she did just fine. The reason for that is she has fairly decent predator radar. I'd rather not address this topic further in public though. Let's just leave it at... "you're missing a few big pieces of the picture".

Call it a double standard if you will. Here... how about this. Anyone who's got 15 or more years of happy marriage between them can feel free to throw any cautious I or anyone else has out the window in favor of... well... actual reality.


Like I said, I can only assume I understood you wrong and followed a path unintended. I was not swiping you or Carol, just wasn't sure what I was hearing.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/11/2012 8:46:36 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity
Amen! You are only a victim if you choose to be. That goes in the bedroom, in the dungeon, in the workplace, in the home, in the grocery store, in the car.....Submissive or not really has nothing to do with it.

I'd amend that slightly. It is certainly possible to be victimized through random activity. You could just be buying a mountain dew at the convenience store when it's robbed. Your point is solid though in that you can dramatically reduce the chances. I keep hearing lots of good things about the book, The Gift of Fear.



Yup. You could go to the convenience store in the good neighborhood at 2 pm and only the one where you know there are cameras and a weapon behind the counter. This should minimize the risk, but still some idiot could come in there and try to rob the place anyway. ANYTHING can happen to anyone. What I think the premise of patterned behavior along with learned helplessness. Those are both totally fixable and not fixing them before jumping into this is like jumping into the 12 foot end of the pool with two broken legs and pneumonia. You may survive it, but if I were the lifeguard fishing you out, I'd say how glad I am that you made it, that you should have known better than to get into the pool in that condition, that you are welcome back, but only AFTER you get well. I don't think that's asking too much.

SD

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 8:14:32 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I have described myself as "a fragile flower of Southern (hemisphere!) womanhood ....... but in no way do i mean that i am a victim waiting for a crime. When i was looking for a relationship i took all the precautions needed to ensure safety - short of bringing a bodyguard, and never did i end up in a position where i felt uncomfortable.

Anyone can end up in a bad position, Its the people who continually end up in bad positions that have an issue - and it isn't that their tops are not listening. The victims aren't learning from the situations that are causing them so much angst. And online they get a following for petsandwarm fuzzies when they complain about individuals that "did them wrong".

I have a feeling that the victims wouldn't get so much positive activity in real life. It would get tiresome listening to the same complaints year after year when you couldn't walk away from the computer.

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 8:59:53 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

At that point I took her aside and told her to fucking think and ask a guy if he wants to date her before she does the split for him, she then had the hump with me.... That shit really does happen...


When I was into the nightclub and raves scene I would see this shit night after night. She would fuck him in the bathroom or parking lot or they would go to a hotel room or whatever and then the next day she would complain that he left right after, didn't even leave his phone number and then crying because he gave the "wrong" impression that he didn't want to stick around as her boyfriend. Well....duh! He wasn't at the club looking for pussy for a long term relationship.


And that's how I kind of feel about a situation where a woman hooks up with someone for some kinky bondage and bdsm but then doesn't want her naughty bits touched. Really? You can tie me up, beat me, do all kinds of hot, sexy things but when you touch my private parts, I'm gonna scream rape and crumple into a heap and you're a piece of shit. Are you fucking kidding me? Get real. I have no sympathy for that kind of nonsense. Yeah, no means no. I hear ya. In a perfect world it does. But perhaps one ought not to get herself into such a situation with someone she can't absolutely trust. She bears the responsibility for putting herself in that situation to begin with. She's an adult. She needs to accept responsibility, get over it and quit whining. Sorry if you can't see that...........luci



Well maybe you care to go back and read the whole post, because apparently you missed the part where we agreed that "No means NO", but that there are women who will engage with guys willingly on a sexual level, no "I don't want my privates touched" but "Yes, get me off, I want my orgasm" and then if the guy does treat it as the casual hookup and play it seemed to be, they decide to play the victim and scream they are forced. Sorry, but I am lacking ALL compassion or that, in fact I find them just as morally lacking as a top who doesn't respect limits, because a c*nt like that gives people who are truly victimized a bad name. Sorry if you can't see that if you negotiate things before, you have a right to expect both to stick to that, a top who violates a hard limit is an abuser, the woman doesn't need to accept responsibility for being violated. If you apply your logic, you would also say a woman who got raped needs to admit responsibility for walking home alone or wearing a short skirt - BS. Everything we do is consensual, if somebody does things that are not consensual, they're the ones who should accept that they are dealing with the consequences of their actions. Plain and simple. In most of the clubs I've played they take that stuff quite seriously and a guy sticking his hand where it was agreed that he shouldn't stick it there is helped out of the place by the staff and banned, in case he sneaks in again and does it again, he's escorted out again, but unfortunately he's going to slip on some stairs or miss a wall that was in the way.
The organizers are savy enough to know that if they let people get away with that stuff, things are going downhill and women will not come to the clubs and events, and nothing is more deadly for the BDSM and fetish scene than if every event is just a sausage fest.

_____________________________

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Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 10:05:48 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Ok, I have to chime in finally.

The problem I see with the Culture of the Victim is twofold.

1> It's the Man's Fault - No matter the circumstance; a male is presumed to be the aggressor and predator if something goes bad. Think about it a bit, how often do you see the presumption of guilt when a couple has a problem? I tend to take all "my ex" tales with a huge dollop of salt any more. After my divorce, a neighbor of my mother actually came right out and asked "how long were you fooling around on her before she caught you?". The presumption of guilt on the part of a man in any breakup is insidious in mainstream society. It even permeates the legal system. When I was getting divorced in Virginia way back when I went to three different lawyers and was told basically the same thing, "In Virginia, if you bring out what you need to to get custody of the children removed from the mother they will go to foster care. Why? Because you didn't stop her from doing deviant behavior so you are not fit to have custody." After the divorce, I left Virginia and haven't considered moving back.

2> Professional Victims - Have you ever run across someone whose solution to any problem was to complain loud and long to anyone who would listen until someone took care of the problem to get them to STFU? I had the misfortune to get sucked into the life of someone that played this card as their main trump card. After I had enough and left I started getting things filtered back to me about my multiple cheating affairs, that I had taken all her money (actually, she made off with a huge chunk of mine), and how I had beaten her up. I even received a visit from the police about one report she made about me attacking her ... while I was logged in at a secure facility working overtime with 16 other people. (Getting kicked while shearing sheep really does look like someone has hit you with a fist it seems.)

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent a bit. Old baggage sometimes ferments and needs to out-gas.
I guess I do have a sign that reads "trust issues". <grin>


(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 10:59:30 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Sorry, but I am lacking ALL compassion or that, in fact I find them just as morally lacking as a top who doesn't respect limits, because a c*nt like that gives people who are truly victimized a bad name.

Gee. I gotta admit I was more concerned about the fact that they were some sort of weird perversion of a sexual predator themselves. What is that? A "legal predator" or somesuch?

@all
You know this thread has been an eye opener for me in an unexpected way. I had never personally identified before with the plight of women who walk through the world knowing the rape stats and so inevitably needing to have some level of attention paid to... well... the perils of men. Yes, I still mock women who can't seem to safely have a cup of coffee. But I've always understood that some reasonable amount of awareness is an important thing.

This thread has taught me that I should have empathized with that all along. I've known the same ... fear isn't the right word exactly but... awareness that pretty much any women out there can do the same to me using the legal system as a tool. It's been done to me personally... depending on how you'd like to count once or twice. And yes, that awareness certainly shapes the decisions I make as I go through life. For that bit of "connecting the dots" alone I'm glad I started this muddled thread.

The other really useful thing was that I learned viscerally what it means to operate outside the law. Well, in a situation like that there IS no justice. I hadn't really put it all together before this thread... "Sex, drugs, rock & roll, & no law... what could possibly go wrong?"

@MertTech
Agreed on both counts. But for this particular problem (not the larger social issue) is there even a solution? Again, it was a head-snap to me to realize that THERE WAS NO FREAKIN LAW IN THESE ENVIRONMENTS. To your first point, it sucks that blame defaults to the male. But it also sucks that there's no credible way to sort blame at all. To your second point, it'd be nice if they stopped training new victims, but the victims and predators like the system as it is. I can't see how it's going to stop.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 11:42:16 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I think one of the biggest problems with safewords, as they are actually used, is that they give the dom plausible deniability.


I totally hate safewords because of that very reason.

When engaging in casual play, I'll use them, because most public play settings insist on it. But I make it very clear during the negotiations that I will be relaying mostly on English to communicate, and will only safeword if English isn't getting my point across.
I give information, and I expect the D-type to do something with that information. I'm very vocal about saying what I do and do not like, how something is feeling, and how I'm emotionally reacting to something. With all those clues, a D-type should be able to figure out where I am mentally and physically long before a safeword becomes necessary. But even if that isn't the case, I consider it *my* responsibility to communicate clearly at that point by safewording.

In non-casual play, I love to explore limits and boundaries. Which means that "no" and "stop" are often off the table as singles to indicate that I want something to stop. However, in that situation, I still don't tend to relay on safewords, because I think they muddle up the communications process. Instead, I'll again give continuous feedback in plain English whenever possible, and pre-negotiate that the only thing that really means stop is "I no longer consent".

At the same time, I also always find it important that the D-type has the ability to reestablish consent during the scene. Something that' often neglected in the BDSM community in my opinion.
When I play, on any level, and a D-type for whatever reason becomes hesitant of my state of mind, I expect them to be able to ask me: "do you consent?" I will always answer that answer truthful, and consider it to be a question that's outside of play.
While I may reply "no" to the question "do you want to do this", the question "do you consent" goes to a much deeper level for me, because it's basically asking "despite you not wanting to do this, do you want me to go through with it anyways?"
It doesn't matter to me how hot it may sometimes be to be able to engage in rape play and yell: "no I don't want this, stop!" and be ignored. And how much it may or may not ruin the "mood" if the D-type at that point would reestablish consent by asking about it at that point, I find it important that they have a possibility to do so outside of the scene. To not have that sort of "safe question" for the D-type is putting more responsibility on their shoulders than I'm willing to deal with in a scene.

To have a good scene you need to create a situation where the bottom can have a trust for the top, otherwise the apprehension on the bottom's part will ruin the dynamic. So why isn't it more common in the scene to create a safeguard and a situation where the top can trust the bottom, by giving them the capacity to reaffirm consent when they may feel they need to?

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 12:04:03 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		~fast reply~
Well how appropriate. There I am over on another site and I read the perfect thread. Slave gets hooked up with idiot master. Idiot master does idiot thing. Slave comes passive-aggressively whining to boards and receives WAY too much sympathy. I'm watching a victim being trained. I am coming up with a new theory though and so I went and checked her profile. Yup... sure enough... she's got not one but TWO protectors. My new theory is that if I was ever looking for a new slave I should ask, "Have you ever had a protector?" If the answer is "yes" then red flag -- inquire at length for more details. I'm coming to see protectors as "victim trainers".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 12:25:21 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

~fast reply~
Well how appropriate. There I am over on another site and I read the perfect thread. Slave gets hooked up with idiot master. Idiot master does idiot thing. Slave comes passive-aggressively whining to boards and receives WAY too much sympathy. I'm watching a victim being trained. I am coming up with a new theory though and so I went and checked her profile. Yup... sure enough... she's got not one but TWO protectors. My new theory is that if I was ever looking for a new slave I should ask, "Have you ever had a protector?" If the answer is "yes" then red flag -- inquire at length for more details. I'm coming to see protectors as "victim trainers".

Maybe the 2 protectors came along after the slave posted about the event with the idiot master?.. just sayin' thats a possibility.. But personally, I dont really get the "protector" thing.. a "protector" can just as easily be another predator..

Imo, if guys wanna blame the sub/slave "victim" and such, then they shouldnt wonder when subs/slaves are super cautious.. the idiot masters make it harder and spoil it for the rest of you guys.. Just sayin'..

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(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 12:43:00 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		I am considering putting an old, trusted friend on my profile as a "protector". It really has nothing to do with the person's involvement in my relationships. It isn't even someone whose job is to "pick up the pieces" of some mess that I had in the past or create in the future. As matter of fact the person I have in mind would be someone who would be so kind as to jerk a knot in my ass and ask me, "Soooooo SD, where did YOU go wrong?" I am pretty well only kidding. While I have people like that, I don't need all the other domly dom doms to be oh so skeerd that I have a "protector". People being better friends by not lying to them and enabling their bullshit would go a long way in lowering the numbers of, as MercTech put it, "Professional victims".

I see most "protector" situations as victim trainers as well. I pretty well always have. I don't need protecting. I need to know how to protect myself. I have learned to value of listening to good advice even when I don't want to hear it. The people who care the most care enough to hurt your feelings. If they put themselves out like that, value what they are offering. It isn't easy to hurt someone you care about, have them angry with you, and risk losing the friendship, but you matter enough that they go through all of that and then you make your bed with coddlers you barely know? Now that's gratitude. I've done it. Many have done it. I don't do it anymore. I doubt I can go back and thank those who tried to stop my stupidity and heal those relationships, but I can move forward and do better in the future. THOSE are the protectors. Too bad sometimes it's so hard to see the forest for the trees.

SD


(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 1:13:08 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity
While I have people like that, I don't need all the other domly dom doms to be oh so skeerd that I have a "protector".

Oh.. Is that what having a protector is supposed to be, a way to scare doms away? lol If i see someone has a protector i think they are very new at this and/or that they dont have any brains.. either way i would have thought that having a protector is a way of telling predators, hey I am really easy to manipulate so all you have to do is get past the protector (which imo likely isnt too hard)..

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(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Culture of Victimhood - 8/12/2012 2:00:24 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

~fast reply~
Well how appropriate. There I am over on another site and I read the perfect thread. Slave gets hooked up with idiot master. Idiot master does idiot thing. Slave comes passive-aggressively whining to boards and receives WAY too much sympathy. I'm watching a victim being trained. I am coming up with a new theory though and so I went and checked her profile. Yup... sure enough... she's got not one but TWO protectors. My new theory is that if I was ever looking for a new slave I should ask, "Have you ever had a protector?" If the answer is "yes" then red flag -- inquire at length for more details. I'm coming to see protectors as "victim trainers".

Maybe the 2 protectors came along after the slave posted about the event with the idiot master?.. just sayin' thats a possibility.. But personally, I dont really get the "protector" thing.. a "protector" can just as easily be another predator..

Imo, if guys wanna blame the sub/slave "victim" and such, then they shouldnt wonder when subs/slaves are super cautious.. the idiot masters make it harder and spoil it for the rest of you guys.. Just sayin'..


Of course a "protector" can be a predator but the way I've seen it handled quite often it makes sense, for example newbie sub doesn't really know much about the scene, attends workshops and gets on with a person but they don't have a BDSM relationship, until newbie sub finds his/her feet, the other person acts as a protector. I've done that with friends who didn't want to be impolite and tell another dominant that they don't want to play with him/her, it's handy to have the "protector" around who's officially your dominant for the evening, if the subbie has experience, you usually just have a sign, i.e. person who might be a bit intoxicated comes and asks if they want to play, they say they have to ask me, subbie touches ear, means "Keep them away from me", so I give an excuse like "Oh no, he's not allowed, sorry about that" - solves long arguments and hurt feelings. Also new subs often can be in a sub frenzy where they don't really use good judgement, somebody who's not interested in having them as a personal sub but who's a friend can act as a protector and make judgement calls and then also step in if they feel it's going too far.
Of course it can be abused, everything can, but in most cases it's a better idea than letting a newbie run loose.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 120
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