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Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 3:41:37 PM   
VanillaKinkie


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/31/2011
Status: offline 		I wonder if anyone can give me advice on the following topic.

If a rule has been agreed and set in place, where permission is require from a Dom/Master by the sub/slave to consume alcohol, what would your views as a Dom/me. sub/slave be to the following situation.

The sub/slave has arranged with a vanilla friend to go out for a social evenning where drinking may be involved.

The sub/slave cannot contact their Dom/Master to gain permission to be allowed to consume alcohol.

However informs her Dom/Master in an email she plans to go out.

What should the sub/slave do ?

Do rules like this become void as there is a communication issue ?

What should the Dom/Masters point of view be ?

Thank you for taking time to read this and any advice given

VK

< Message edited by VanillaKinkie -- 8/10/2012 3:44:36 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 3:48:20 PM   
pretzelLove


Posts: 16
Status: offline 		Which is more important to sub/slave... obeying their Dom/Master or possibly having a few drinks? IMO, just because sub/slave cant get hold of Dom/Master to ask permission doesnt mean sub/slave gets to disobey the rules. What if sub/slave got hold of Dom/Master and Dom/Master said no?

Emailing isnt permission. Sometimes, if you are serious in obeying, that means you dont get to do exactly what you want to do when you want to do it.

< Message edited by pretzelLove -- 8/10/2012 3:50:38 PM >

(in reply to VanillaKinkie)
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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 3:52:12 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		A) There are no rules.
B) Asking most of us about "subs/slaves" is a lot like asking a question spanning submarines and sports cars. Uh... the similarities are limited.

So that being said, how it'd work in my master/slave marriage is she'd get released for that. Well... let's put it differently. I don't actually expect or want blind obedience from Carol. I want her to figure out what I would have wanted her to do then do that... do as I mean, not as I say. So there have been times when this has occurred between Carol and I but those times tended to be repeats of other exactly identical situations where I permitted the drink and she knew the reasoning then correctly applied that reasoning to this situation. For instance, there is a mixer we go to once a month. At that mixer, I always allow her one or two drinks. I do so to allow her to "mix" more easily rather than fight with her own desire to drink and her own desire to "fit in". She knows all that. So the last mixer I didn't attend and wasn't available. She made a judgement call and got herself one (not two) drinks. It was the right call. I might even have allowed two but she couldn't know that.

It remains true that every single time she does that she is risking her collar... not so much in my deciding she didn't correctly figure out what I would have wanted. Those sorts of situations are a minor correction: "In the future mine...." But if I got even one whiff that her thought process was not entirely what would I want it'd be all over for the collar. When I am unavailable to her I expect her thought process to be "What would Jeff want?" not "What does Carol want?"

I have ABSOLUTELY NO OPINION on how any other couple ought to handle this same thing.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 3:52:22 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		I actually live under those restrictions. His view is that if I'm going out with friends, I have tacit permission to have alcohol unless he specifically says differently before I go out.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 3:56:48 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie

What should the sub/slave do ?

The rule seems pretty clear. They weren't able to get permission to drink so they shouldn't.

quote:

Do rules like this become void as there is a communication issue ?

Over something as trivial as this? Why should they? If you had a rule that they weren't allowed to use your car but there was a medical emergency and they used it then, it might be a different story.

quote:

What should the Dom/Masters point of view be?

That's your call.


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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 3:57:26 PM   
smartsub10


Posts: 865
Joined: 4/23/2010
Status: offline 		With his permission your Dom has no issue with you drinking alcohol. But, you do need his permission. If I couldn't reach my Dom to get this permission then I would be drinking Cokes all evening.

_____________________________

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____________________________________________

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:01:08 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Fast reply.

If no permission has been obtained for a luxury, then you abstain. Sorry, but that's what you signed up for when giving the decision making power over to another. Does it mean that sometimes you will not be able to indulge? You're damn right it does, but *YOU* entered the agreement of your own accord. Don't come bitching because on this particular occasion it wasn't convenient.


_____________________________

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:03:40 PM   
kitkat105


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline 		You either don't drink alcohol (why can't you have a mocktail? Or non-alcoholic beverages? It's more socially acceptable that what you obviously realise to not drink). Or break the rules and face the consequences.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:05:24 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		Not that it changes the substance of the replies, but I believe the OP is the dom here, not the sub.


_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:06:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		OP,

A night out with buddies consuming alcohol without permission, resulting in being kicked to the curb.


What does each clause in that sentence weigh?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to kitkat105)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:07:23 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie

What should the sub/slave do ?



The s-type should talk to the D-type the next chance they have about what the D-type wants the s-type to do in a situation like this.
He may consider the rules not applicable if she can't reach him, he may consider her disobedient if she assumes he would have permitted her to drink and does so, or he may not care at all.

The important thing is that they both need to sit down and discuss what it is he wants from her when this kind of thing comes up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie

Do rules like this become void as there is a communication issue ?




Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what he wants.
Strangers online will not be able to help you figure out what he wants. Ask him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie

What should the Dom/Masters point of view be ?



Whatever he wants it to be.
It all depends on his personality and style.


Now, if you can't reach him to ask him what he wants you to do in situations like this before the event in question, I would advice you to stick with what Jeff said: every step of the way, try to imagine what you think he would want you to do, not what you want to do. That way, even if you guess wrong, at the very least you did it from an attempt of doing the right thing.

Afterwards, sit him down and ask him to specify what it actually is that he would have wanted you to do. Do this everything something like this comes up and you weren't a 100% sure of what he would have expected of you. Asking him, and learning from him is the only way you'll eventually know what is the right and what is the wrong thing to do.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to VanillaKinkie)
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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:09:10 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Not that it changes the substance of the replies, but I believe the OP is the dom here, not the sub.



Well fuck you're right...

Well, that's what happens when you have a nick that doesn't portray a gender, and a girls butt sticking out as an avatar.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:10:10 PM   
delasour


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/1/2012
Status: offline 		As an observer I would say that you should obey your Dom when with him, but if he doesn't allow you to have a drink with your friends he's an insecure fellow who doesn't really understand the give and take of relationships. Bdsm or otherwise.

(in reply to kitkat105)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:15:38 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


The important thing is that they both need to sit down and discuss what it is he wants from her when this kind of thing comes up.



Crux of the issue is this. It's easy to make up a set of rules without taking real life into account, but the "what ifs" need to discussed.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:30:44 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie

I wonder if anyone can give me advice on the following topic.

If a rule has been agreed and set in place, where permission is require from a Dom/Master by the sub/slave to consume alcohol, what would your views as a Dom/me. sub/slave be to the following situation.

The sub/slave has arranged with a vanilla friend to go out for a social evenning where drinking may be involved.

The sub/slave cannot contact their Dom/Master to gain permission to be allowed to consume alcohol.

However informs her Dom/Master in an email she plans to go out.

What should the sub/slave do ?

Do rules like this become void as there is a communication issue ?

What should the Dom/Masters point of view be ?

Thank you for taking time to read this and any advice given


I'm right into rules but I can see too many variables, here, for this to work for me....

First off, I don't have rules for the sake of them; they have a meaning and a reason. They're either something I specifically want of her or she needs. If I had a no drinking rule for my sub (never have before), it'd likely be because she had a previous alcohol abuse problem; she didn't handle it or her hangovers were hell to live with etc.

But this isn't a blanket "no drinking" rule - she hasta ask permission. That implies she is allowed to drink. My sub is "second in command" in our relationship. Which means if I'm not available, she defers to her own will. The fact that we are in a committed relationship means I know I can trust her own judgement in such circumstances.

So no, the rules don't become void so much as not applicable. She did what was expected and tried to contact you. She couldn't, so this is where my girl defers to her own judgement.

As for the Dom/Master point of view; I'd suggest he first review the need for such a rule given that she IS allowed to drink in general. If it's just about micro-management, then there's an on onus on Dom/Master to practically *always* be contactable for permission.

Me, rather than micro-manage, I learn to trust my girl to be mature and responsible in her own right.

Focus.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:37:47 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


First off, I don't have rules for the sake of them; they have a meaning and a reason. They're either something I specifically want of her or she needs. If I had a no drinking rule for my sub (never have before), it'd likely be because she had a previous alcohol abuse problem; she didn't handle it or her hangovers were hell to live with etc.


Himself put that rule in place because he may have plans to play that he hasn't made me aware of. If we're playing he does not like me impaired, even a little tiny bit.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:37:53 PM   
Lucifyre


Posts: 1067
Joined: 3/27/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


The important thing is that they both need to sit down and discuss what it is he wants from her when this kind of thing comes up.



Crux of the issue is this. It's easy to make up a set of rules without taking real life into account, but the "what ifs" need to discussed.



Sorry but in this particular instance (consuming alcohol) I hafta call BS. Like LadyP said, the agreement was entered into before the situation arose, therefor the rule still applies...need to OBTAIN permission before consuming. Rules don't change just because it's no fun for a night because you wanna go out and slosh it up with girlfriends.
Especially over something as easy as alcohol, the rule should remain, if the sub doesn't actually get the permission they should abstain.

The information we HAVEN'T been given is WHY the rule was set in place. If it was made a rule just for the sake of having a rule in place then that IMO is something that should be discussed in the near future. Not broken, but certainly discussed. If it was set into place because the sub has issues with alcohol then the rule should simply be followed and not questioned.

One would expect that two consenting adults that have entered into a D/s type agreement with eachother and made rules like this would have the mental fortitude to understand WHY they need to just follow the damned rule and not come to a board full of strangers and ask "Gee what should I do with my dynamic since it isn't convenient for me tonight and I wanna act like an immature teenager and go out and party with my bff...please oh please random internet strangers give me permission to break a rule I AGREED TO"

I can think of no real life circumstance where it ISN'T ok to not drink.

Lucifyre


_____________________________

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I do this because it fucking feels good.
I like girls who like girls
The thing about standards is: There are SO many to choose from.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:38:34 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline 		I agree with the others that say this question is simple. Drinking without permission would be a clear violation of the rule you agreed to follow. If you can't get ahold of master, too bad so sad. You should have planned better.

Reading between the lines, I get the feeling this is a long-distance relationship. If this issue keeps arising, and the relationship isn't working out due to too little contact, then you'll have to deal with that.

Lastly, no, rules do not become void due to "a communication issue." I find it rather lame that you had difficulty following a rule this simple. What is it that has your panties in such a twist? Is it the fact that you had to miss an opportunity to get your buzz on? Is it that you live by these rules only so that you can feel a rush when you ask master's permission and get a yes or no? If it's one of these, then I question your dedication and maturity.

I presume you have either an express or implied rule that you will not fuck someone else without permission. If the opportunity presents itself, and you cannot get in touch with master, are you going to consider that rule void?

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:40:36 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucifyre

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


The important thing is that they both need to sit down and discuss what it is he wants from her when this kind of thing comes up.



Crux of the issue is this. It's easy to make up a set of rules without taking real life into account, but the "what ifs" need to discussed.



Sorry but in this particular instance (consuming alcohol) I hafta call BS. Like LadyP said, the agreement was entered into before the situation arose, therefor the rule still applies...need to OBTAIN permission before consuming. Rules don't change just because it's no fun for a night because you wanna go out and slosh it up with girlfriends.
Especially over something as easy as alcohol, the rule should remain, if the sub doesn't actually get the permission they should abstain.

The information we HAVEN'T been given is WHY the rule was set in place. If it was made a rule just for the sake of having a rule in place then that IMO is something that should be discussed in the near future. Not broken, but certainly discussed. If it was set into place because the sub has issues with alcohol then the rule should simply be followed and not questioned.

One would expect that two consenting adults that have entered into a D/s type agreement with eachother and made rules like this would have the mental fortitude to understand WHY they need to just follow the damned rule and not come to a board full of strangers and ask "Gee what should I do with my dynamic since it isn't convenient for me tonight and I wanna act like an immature teenager and go out and party with my bff...please oh please random internet strangers give me permission to break a rule I AGREED TO"

I can think of no real life circumstance where it ISN'T ok to not drink.

Lucifyre



I second this.

(in reply to Lucifyre)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 4:45:58 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucifyre

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


The important thing is that they both need to sit down and discuss what it is he wants from her when this kind of thing comes up.



Crux of the issue is this. It's easy to make up a set of rules without taking real life into account, but the "what ifs" need to discussed.



Sorry but in this particular instance (consuming alcohol) I hafta call BS. Like LadyP said, the agreement was entered into before the situation arose, therefor the rule still applies...need to OBTAIN permission before consuming. Rules don't change just because it's no fun for a night because you wanna go out and slosh it up with girlfriends.
Especially over something as easy as alcohol, the rule should remain, if the sub doesn't actually get the permission they should abstain.

I never said that the rule should be broken. I said that "what ifs" should be discussed to make it absolutely clear as to how those rules apply in real life.







_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Lucifyre)
Profile   Post #: 20
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