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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 8:23:35 PM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If no permission has been obtained for a luxury, then you abstain.


Based on the information provided in the OP I would concur with this sentiment.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 8:26:09 PM   
LizDeluxe


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Joined: 10/2/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: delasour
As an observer I would say that you should obey your Dom when with him, but if he doesn't allow you to have a drink with your friends he's an insecure fellow who doesn't really understand the give and take of relationships. Bdsm or otherwise.


So, to recap... rules only apply to a submissive when they are in the physical presence of their dominant.

Thanks for clearing that up. Does that apply to fidelity, as well?


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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 8:42:54 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

Nobody picked up on THIS ----> ^^^^^
part of the sloppy, sloppy dynamic.

Sub/slave/she "arranges" to go out.
If she can decide to go out without permission.... well, just were is this couple in the discussion of ANY rules?




The Mister and I don't live together yet. I make arrangements to go out all the time, and let him know what they are. If he thinks it's not a good idea, I cancel my arrangements.

I still have rules about drinking.


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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 9:05:08 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe
So, to recap... rules only apply to a submissive when they are in the physical presence of their dominant. Thanks for clearing that up. Does that apply to fidelity, as well?

perfectly stated. Of course, you also forgot to mention that we need to suspend reality when the dominant isn't present also. Let's assume for a moment that the rules I make for Carol are not capricious and generally they are not. So if we're suspending the rules then I also assume that whatever drove those rules has somehow magically gone away.

Seriously, am I the only freakin dominant in the world who's got better things to do than to make up rules just to drive his property crazy?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 11:02:03 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Nope. Master feels the same way. He doesn't make rules just for shits and giggles. He feels it's a waste of time and not something he wants to have to check up on or keep a reminder about it to himself. If he makes a rule it's because it is advantageous to one or both of us.

If he makes a rule, it's understood that that rule is in place, with or without him. And just because we don't live together doesn't mean the rules change or I should not ask him first if I want to do something that I'm not sure if he would approve or not, especially since we don't live together. He doesn't want to come over to my place, come in and find an empty house and then he has to wonder what happened to me and where I am.


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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/10/2012 11:25:47 PM   
RaspberryLemon


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline 		Personally: If my Master told me not to drink alcohol without his permission, I would not drink alcohol without his permission. Period. Just because I was unable to get in contact with him to receive permission or lack thereof does not mean the rule suddenly disappears or becomes irrelevant or void, or that I have the right to disregard it. I didn't obtain permission, so I wouldn't partake. There's no reason to disobey that, and no ambiguity about it. Simple.

The way things work in my relationship is that I am expected to do what he wants me to do. Which means solidly following any rules he has, but it also means that I am permitted to use my judgment to act outside of a rule if I have good reason to believe he would want that in whatever particular situation I was in (if he was unavailable for clarification.) However, I take a risk in assuming I know what he would want because it is a possibility that I could make the wrong call--so I avoid doing this and just simply go with the solid rule unless it is something important and necessary that I am very sure about (social drinking cannot be considered important. Important is if he told me not to use his car without permission, and I went against that rule (in lieu of his presence to give me permission) in order to drive someone to the hospital in a medical emergency (thanks to stef for the example.))

Because all of my Master's rules have a good reason or meaning behind them (they are not arbitrary,) following them or making the right judgment call on them is very important. He trusts my judgment (just as I trust his,) so he permits me to make judgment calls in his absence when necessary, and would be understanding if I made the wrong one with good intentions. But he expects me to be reasonable and follow his rules unless there is a very good reason for me to believe I should do otherwise.

(in reply to VanillaKinkie)
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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 12:22:21 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


First off, I don't have rules for the sake of them; they have a meaning and a reason. They're either something I specifically want of her or she needs. If I had a no drinking rule for my sub (never have before), it'd likely be because she had a previous alcohol abuse problem; she didn't handle it or her hangovers were hell to live with etc.


Himself put that rule in place because he may have plans to play that he hasn't made me aware of. If we're playing he does not like me impaired, even a little tiny bit.


Yeah, I've done that - a "something specific I want of her" rule. I'm saying I've never needed to institute a general "no drinking" rule because she had a problem with drink.

Focus.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 12:32:09 AM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		I wonder if anyone can give me advice on the following topic.

If a rule has been agreed and set in place, where permission is require from a Dom/Master by the sub/slave to consume alcohol, what would your views as a Dom/me. sub/slave be to the following situation.

The sub/slave has arranged with a vanilla friend to go out for a social evenning where drinking may be involved.

The sub/slave cannot contact their Dom/Master to gain permission to be allowed to consume alcohol.

However informs her Dom/Master in an email she plans to go out.

What should the sub/slave do ?
The sub/slave should go out (assuming that there are no rules governing this) and not consume alcohol (there is a rule, and permission has not been obtained).

Do rules like this become void as there is a communication issue ?
Don't be silly. The communication issue is: "I couldn't get hold of you. What do you want me to do next time? Oh, and by the way, what if [x] happens?" matched by "On this occasion you did [x]. That's fine/That's not fine. Next time I want you to do [y]. While we're on the subject, if there's doubt, this is what you should do..."

What should the Dom/Masters point of view be ?
Whatever you like. You're the Dom/Master (Daddy?). In MY dynamic IF the sub had been told not to drink, but had done so, a punishment for disobedience would be in order. Depending on the circumstances (and only you can judge those) that might mean withdrawal of a privilege, or something she actively dislikes, or "goodbye".

Communication, communication, communication.

(in reply to RaspberryLemon)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 12:35:18 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie
I wonder if anyone can give me advice on the following topic.
<snipped>
The sub/slave has arranged with a vanilla friend to go out for a social evening where drinking may be involved.
<snipped>
However informs her Dom/Master in an email she plans to go out.
<snipped>

Nobody picked up on THIS ----> ^^^^^
part of the sloppy, sloppy dynamic.

Sub/slave/she "arranges" to go out.
If she can decide to go out without permission.... well, just were is this couple in the discussion of ANY rules?

Oh, and what everyone else said. LOL!


Because.....?

While I agree the rules/dynamic are sloppy, there was nothing in the OP to suggest she needed permission to go out; only if she could drink alcohol.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 1:19:01 AM   
Just0Plain0Mike


Posts: 127
Joined: 6/16/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: delasour

As an observer I would say that you should obey your Dom when with him, but if he doesn't allow you to have a drink with your friends he's an insecure fellow who doesn't really understand the give and take of relationships. Bdsm or otherwise.


Wow, awfully presumptuous of you, don't you think? You have absolutely no idea what their relationship is, no reason why a prohibition against drinking alcohol was given in the first place, or really much of anything else. Did it ever occur to you that the sub/slave might have a drinking problem? Have gotten 1 or more DUIs? Just makes poor decisions when drunk? Or that maybe the Dom is just morally opposed to alcohol. Or has some other legitimate reason for making this rule and isn't just being an arbitrary schmuck?


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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 3:17:09 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Here's my take.

I'd expect my sub to use her judgement. I can't exactly relate to the no drinking rule, as like one of the posters before, I would only ban drinking for a specific reason.

When I put rules like this in place, I cover eventualities like this. Sometimes the guideline would be that if she can't get hold of me (which given email, phone, text etc is relatively rare) the rule is relaxed, sometimes the rule is not. More often than not, though, I'll say "use your judgement".

If it turns out that her judgement results in a choice that I would not have made, we'll have a conversation, and if it happens on a regular basis I'd have cause to wonder how compatible we are.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 5:34:48 AM   
phoenixmoonn13


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline 		i have a no drinking rule unless i ask first only because i was close to becoming an alcoholic when we first met. there are certain things if i need to ask permission for and hes not there or responded by text in 5 mins i take it as a yes but something like drinking i would have to ask before i went out this would not be covered in the 5 min rule, if i couldn't get he permission then it would be soft drink only

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 5:54:29 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie

I wonder if anyone can give me advice on the following topic.

If a rule has been agreed and set in place, where permission is require from a Dom/Master by the sub/slave to consume alcohol, what would your views as a Dom/me. sub/slave be to the following situation.

The sub/slave has arranged with a vanilla friend to go out for a social evenning where drinking may be involved.

The sub/slave cannot contact their Dom/Master to gain permission to be allowed to consume alcohol.

However informs her Dom/Master in an email she plans to go out.

What should the sub/slave do ?

Do rules like this become void as there is a communication issue ?

What should the Dom/Masters point of view be ?

Thank you for taking time to read this and any advice given

VK


Dominant Fail.

To set broadly worded rules, without allowing for contingencies, is poor leadership.

To attempt to micro- manage, and then not be available, is poor leadership.

BOTH sides of the power dynamic are responsible for standing orders.

If a rule requires the dominants permission to be granted, the dominant is obligated to be accessible to give that permission, or to set conditions that will grant permission in their absence.

While it may be impossible to foresee all situations that might arise, this particular one should have been thought of, and would seem to be fairly simple to cover with a 'use your best judgement' clause.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 6:04:09 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		I don't have any rules around alcohol, since it's very rare for me to have a drink anyway, but I usually do ask permission in the same way I would for any luxury. If he wasn't around, and hadn't told me otherwise, I'd assume I was ok to have one or two drinks. That said, if I had been explicitly told 'not without my say so' then I would go without. As someone already mentioned I can't think of any situation in which declining an alcoholic drink would be a social no-no, and there are dozens of plausible reasons why a person might not drink, so there's no risk of 'outing' someone's D/s relationship (with me, people would be more likely to assume I was hiding being pregnant that hiding a Master).

I do have rules about healthy eating. There are very rare occasions when I do feel declining food would be rude (recently a friend turned up with cake she made just for me to try) and so if I can't get hold of him in that situation, I do what I think he would want me to do - have the smallest amount that would be polite and be really careful the rest of the day/week. His rules are clear and understandable, and he trusts me to think for myself and keep to the spirit of the rules. If I was in the habit of always finding excuses to bend the rules like this, I'm sure they would become explicit and tightly upheld to the letter.

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Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 6:04:36 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

If your department made a record number of sales for the quarter and your boss announces this and says he's taking everyone to dinner, it is not appropriate for her not to be able to go and have a glass of wine with dinner. What's she supposed to say, my master won't let me go?


She should go, and not drink.

"I'm driving," "I'm taking medication," or simply, "no thanks" are all perfectly acceptable explanations.

I've had coworkers trying to force shots down my throat but I learned to deal with peer pressure as a teenager.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 6:12:46 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Dominant Fail.

To set broadly worded rules, without allowing for contingencies, is poor leadership.

To attempt to micro- manage, and then not be available, is poor leadership.

BOTH sides of the power dynamic are responsible for standing orders.

If a rule requires the dominants permission to be granted, the dominant is obligated to be accessible to give that permission, or to set conditions that will grant permission in their absence.

While it may be impossible to foresee all situations that might arise, this particular one should have been thought of, and would seem to be fairly simple to cover with a 'use your best judgement' clause.


Agreed.

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 8/11/2012 6:13:04 AM >

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 6:54:29 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yanno, I am reading this thread and getting the kind of thoughts of....another common sense life issue (mole hill) turned into an internet drama laden mountain.

Maybe I am weird but when I create rules there are reasons. Reason that don't have anything to do with 'just for the hell of it'. Now, since I tend to be in relationships with reasonably intelligent adult humans, they also tend to have a clue why the rules are made.

One of my 'relationship rules' if you don't fully understand something I've said or done you are supposed to ASK for clarification. There is no rule that you have to like the reason/explanation, but you will get it.

If I've made a rule, created a boundary, whatever the case may be....and the reason was unclear and you've neglected to ask for clarification......that is your problem.

I expect rules to be followed, boundaries to be respected. If a person cannot follow a rule or stay within a boundary, they'd better discuss that with me. If they can't, for whatever reason, they'd better be darned good at determining what my thoughts on the situation would be.

If I've said no alcohol, I had a god damned good reason for it. I would bloody well expect that rule followed. If it wasn't, there would be hell to pay. No one NEEDS to drink. Period.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 7:01:15 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

Why is this two+ pages? The rules are not in conflict. You can go out and not drink.


This.

We also have a drinking rule. Under the circumstance described I would not have drank alcohol, as I did not have permission.

If you have this kind of rule, it's a good idea to find some non alcoholic drink you enjoy, if like me you don't drink colas or much caffeine.

A mineral water with lime and a small amount of ice goes down quite well and looks like a "real" drink for those who care about that kind of thing.


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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 7:07:03 AM   
JhonP


Posts: 83
Joined: 7/5/2012
Status: offline
quote:

She should go, and not drink.

"I'm driving," "I'm taking medication," or simply, "no thanks" are all perfectly acceptable explanations.

I've had coworkers trying to force shots down my throat but I learned to deal with peer pressure as a teenager.

In every relationship there are rules and regulations, quite often rituals too. Both parties are required to adhere to them, violation of any of the conditions or terms terminates the entire agreement and ends the relationship. Fuck all the contingencies and bull shit…rules are rules.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 7:16:17 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		1-Drinking is, or should be, no big deal.
2-If it is a big deal, you have a much bigger issue on your hands than a discussion about rules.
3-Frankly,I don't like rules. They limit. they trap me. That said, if I make a rule I do it for a reason-I have a how and a why. And in that case, it's a blanket rule. No drinking means no drinking period. If I wanted her to have a loophole, I'da given it to her.
And if she came whining about alcohol of all things, it really really wouldn't help her case because really, in my experience, the folk who make a big deal about not drinking-they are the ones who need to not drink. Normal drinkers don't bat an eye at not being able to drink-they just get ice tea or lemonade-no biggee...

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HST

(in reply to BambiBoi)
Profile   Post #: 60
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