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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 7:17:09 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

Why is this two+ pages? The rules are not in conflict. You can go out and not drink.

This.

We also have a drinking rule. Under the circumstance described I would not have drank alcohol, as I did not have permission.

If you have this kind of rule, it's a good idea to find some non alcoholic drink you enjoy, if like me you don't drink colas or much caffeine.

A mineral water with lime and a small amount of ice goes down quite well and looks like a "real" drink for those who care about that kind of thing.

Exactly. I've never got the concept of, must drink if others are drinking. Last weekend I went to a party. I was offered alcoholic drinks at least a half dozen different times. I declined and drank water. No one laughed at me. No one made fun of me. No one tried to get me to drink with them. Oh, I may have had an " Are you sure? We have....also?" To which I simply replied along the lines of "No thanks! Water is fine." And that was that.

Now last night, I made these wonderful little appetizers to have before GD cooked dinner. I thought they would pair very well with a red wine I had. Voila'! I had two glasses of wine.

Last Sunday I wasn't in the mood. Last night, two glasses of wine tasted yummy.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/11/2012 7:18:27 AM >

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Post #: 61

RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 7:22:41 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
And if she came whining about alcohol of all things, it really really wouldn't help her case because really, in my experience, the folk who make a big deal about not drinking-they are the ones who need to not drink. Normal drinkers don't bat an eye at not being able to drink-they just get ice tea or lemonade-no biggee...

Aint that the truth.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 7:34:46 AM

sunshinemiss

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TO THE OP:

I skipped some of the responses, so if I'm repeating, well sue me.

Here's what I see as a concern within the parameters of this question: Perhaps my sub doesn't know how to handle peer pressure. I understand this. Does your sub know how to withstand the pressure? I rarely drink alcohol - for no particular reason. I just don't. When I go to fancy, black tie events, I treat myself with sparkling water and a lime in a cocktail glass if I'm not in the mood for a drink. It makes me happy. Do people comment? Sure. (Aye the Russians!) "I just don't feel like it" is usually good enough... especially if I just very calmly repeat it. Over time people learn that I'm not a drinker, and they get cool with it (and often start standing up for me when someone else tries to pressure me).

Could very well be that she needs some support around saying no - whether that entails her calling every 20 minutes to check in or taking a friend with her who can support her in responding to pushy people or some other coping mechanism.

FOR ME the question isn't whether there was obedience or not. The question is - if there wasn't obedience, WHY wasn't there obedience? Does she know HOW to obey? Is she actually able to obey (many people in mental health crises will self-medicate)? Is she being willfully defiant? Was the rule-maker unclear? Were there questions that went unasked or unanswered? Were her honest questions blown off?

Once you have those questions answered (and others of that ilk), I expect the ultimate answer to - how should this be followed up on - will be easy.

good luck,
sunshine

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 7:59:26 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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Very nice to have you back posting, sunny!

All very good points.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 8:16:20 AM

sunshinemiss

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Thanks CP. Kind of you to say. And it's nice to be back - don't get too accustomed to it though. I'm wicked busy. What else is new, right?

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 8:21:18 AM

LizDeluxe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Yanno, I am reading this thread and getting the kind of thoughts of....another common sense life issue (mole hill) turned into an internet drama laden mountain.

Reading some of these responses reminds me of the age old bdsm credo: "I wish to be dominated... but on my own terms".

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Post #: 66

RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 8:29:25 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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I'll take ya for as long as I can get ya, ya wonton hussy you !!

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Post #: 67

RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 10:13:31 AM

topcat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie

I wonder if anyone can give me advice on the following topic.

If a rule has been agreed and set in place, where permission is require from a Dom/Master by the sub/slave to consume alcohol, what would your views as a Dom/me. sub/slave be to the following situation.

The sub/slave has arranged with a vanilla friend to go out for a social evenning where drinking may be involved.

The sub/slave cannot contact their Dom/Master to gain permission to be allowed to consume alcohol.

However informs her Dom/Master in an email she plans to go out.

What should the sub/slave do ?

Do rules like this become void as there is a communication issue ?

What should the Dom/Masters point of view be ?

Thank you for taking time to read this and any advice given

VK

Dominant Fail.

To set broadly worded rules, without allowing for contingencies, is poor leadership.

To attempt to micro- manage, and then not be available, is poor leadership.

BOTH sides of the power dynamic are responsible for standing orders.

If a rule requires the dominants permission to be granted, the dominant is obligated to be accessible to give that permission, or to set conditions that will grant permission in their absence.

While it may be impossible to foresee all situations that might arise, this particular one should have been thought of, and would seem to be fairly simple to cover with a 'use your best judgement' clause.

In re-reading the thread at leisure, I do see the opposing points that are being made, re: the Submissive possibly having issues that required such a rule to be made, which would have put a different spin on things than my assumptions- that the rule was in place for the purpose of making a rule for her to follow to remind her of their dynamic and reinforce it.

If it were the case that there was an actual issue related to drinking, it would fall under Rule One (protect the property), and that I will not brook. However, in handing down the big three, I make it clear that these rules are inviolate, and that rule one includes such tangentials as diet, exercise, safe driving habits, situational awareness, etc.,.

But really, IMO, if I give an order that is not obeyed, *I* have failed. Even in a case of willful disobedience, I failed myself in entrusting the subordinate with a task when they were not worthy of my regard.

So!

one way or another, I still call Dominant Fail.

If you want the Authority, you must take the Responsibility.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/11/2012 12:52:44 PM

LizDeluxe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
But really, IMO, if I give an order that is not obeyed, *I* have failed. Even in a case of willful disobedience, I failed myself in entrusting the subordinate with a task when they were not worthy of my regard.

There's some truth to the sentiment laid out above but in the end the failure belongs largely to the submissive. It has been said that integrity is defined by what you do when nobody is watching. Any submissive can follow my rules whilst I am looking over their shoulder. Their true measure is how they behave outside my presence. I don't see it so much as a failure on my part for entrusting them as it is a failure on their part for failing that trust. At some point I have to give them the opportunity to prove their merit.

If anything, we both failed.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/12/2012 10:17:46 AM

MercTech

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This thread reminds me of one of my hot button issues. I detest people that want to force you to imbibe. And I so detest the corporate world where there are so many that think "I won't trust a man who won't have a drink with me."

But as to the issue at hand, "prior permission" would be the key.
My girl goes out with friends and asks if certain actions are all right. On the subject of drinking the usual answer is "not if you are driving and call me if the driver is drinking". Usually followed by "Can you have more than two without risk of doing something stupid?" ... she usually has a limit of 3 <grin>

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/12/2012 11:16:46 AM

Karmastic

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FR-

this is another one of those questions where kink and BDSM are really irrelevant in a way, since this applies to any situation, where you have a subordinate who's supposed to follow policy, directions, orders or instructions while not being directly supervised or in communication with their superior. lack of direct communication is no reason for order and rules to break down, as opposed to allowing subordinates to exercise good judgement (in relation to rules) when true unexpected situations arise. deciding to go out drinking with friends is not such an occasion.

also, sending an email and then just doing it, is akin to preferring to just doing it, and asking for forgiveness later. that's hardly submissive behavior, albeit, maybe a brat.

frankly, i'm not of the mind to control such things like when and how any other adult can consume alcohol. BUT, if one is predisposed to have such rules, it behooves them to enforce them.

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/12/2012 1:16:09 PM

FrostedFlake

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This topic serves to overemphasize that there is no Top/Bottom category to identify with on this site.

And there should be.

Yes, I know he said, "If". But I doubt I am the only guy rolling his eyes.

Yes, I know it's "someone elses' dynamic". And that's fine. But where is mine?

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RE: Advice on "rules" - 8/12/2012 2:09:51 PM

JstAnotherSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaKinkie

I wonder if anyone can give me advice on the following topic.

If a rule has been agreed and set in place, where permission is require from a Dom/Master by the sub/slave to consume alcohol, what would your views as a Dom/me. sub/slave be to the following situation.

The sub/slave has arranged with a vanilla friend to go out for a social evenning where drinking may be involved.

The sub/slave cannot contact their Dom/Master to gain permission to be allowed to consume alcohol.

However informs her Dom/Master in an email she plans to go out.

What should the sub/slave do ?

Do rules like this become void as there is a communication issue ?

What should the Dom/Masters point of view be ?

Thank you for taking time to read this and any advice given

VK

For me, a communication issue would not be reason to not follow a rule. The only time I would go against something that we had agreed on would be in an emergency, and, anyone I would give my self to would trust my judgement enough to know I did it for good reason.

Having a drink is not an emergency.

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