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Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/11/2012 11:26:11 PM   
onceshattered


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/30/2012
Status: offline 		oooh nooo! I've said the words out loud! I've done some reading the past few days on this topic and during my readings, I've found that often times people use this phrase when making a joke... this assumption comes from the almost always included "(LOL)" afterward. So I'm honestly confused and I have some questions. I'm honestly seeking input from anyone, be it Dom, Domme, sub, Master, slave, monkey, turtle, or hare.

Some context:

I generally believe that I'm a "kick-ass, fun to be around, interesting to talk to, awesome" person. I do, however, admit that I have some self-esteem issues. There is that part of me that is insecure because of my weight. I also seem to sabotage many of my relationships. From recent discussions I have discovered that, even though it hurts like hell to hear, I do become aroused when a Dom pushes those emotional buttons. The more useless and damaged he made me feel, the more aroused I became. It was as if he was looking into my soul and pulling out all of the darkness and using those things to knock me down and yet STILL... I was aroused.. and I don't mean just "wet and gooey" I mean my entire "self" was aroused. It was as if seeing all of that darkness spread out before me made feel more alive then I ever have before.


My Questions

Having little experience with this, I can see how this kind of "play" could be detrimental to the emotional well-being of a submissive in the long-term.

1) Can a submissive with existing self-esteem issues successfully engage in this kind of play without it causing serious long-lasting damage?

2) Can proper aftercare be effective in avoiding that damage?

3) Is emotional masochism just "wrong"?

4) Are there any submissives out there that feel like this kind of activity actually makes them stronger?

5) If Kermit and Miss Piggy had offspring would they be "Figs" or "Pogs"?


Conclusion

The intensity that I felt during this was amazing, however I wasn't ready... I didn't have the skills, tools, mindset necessary to follow through and that scared me because it turned out to be something that I really did crave despite the damage it might have caused me. How do I embrace this?
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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/11/2012 11:51:10 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Hmm, I have come to think of some of my quirks
as emotional sadism however I don't put a partner
down or use their insecurities as a tool...
I have no experience in that sort of "play" but my
hunch is that it is a indicator of a destructive
relationship and as such I can't see much mileage
coming from it.

I think we can go a lot of places we wouldn't usually
go when we are horny but I'm curious how you feel
afterwards?
Playing with it in my head I would imagine aftercare
would be a important part of it seeing as it's basically
emotional trauma and tied in with you self image...
Depending on how it's done, this sort of thing could
reinforce a bad self image or amplify existing issues.

I duno, like I said never done it and don't think I'd
want to but I'll be watching this thread to see what
comes out of it.

I like the sound of pogs although I wonder, would
they be green pigs or pink frogs?

-ARIES

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 8/12/2012 12:22:44 AM >

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 12:09:19 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Why are you trying to make light of your post? There aren't many topics around here that should be treated as seriously as emotional sadism/masochism. Read a fucking book, for crying out loud.

Out of order.....

Is it just wrong? Hell, no! Why should emotional play be seen any different than physical play in the right hands? The fact that other people can't use this effectively has no relevance to Me. Sorry. That's not My problem.

Yes, people with self esteem issues can do this and it can be HELPFUL in releaving those issues. It's like any other tool in play. Use = Get result.

Absolutely! Proper aftercare is often the distinguishing line between emotional S/m and abuse. Know the difference.

In our case, clip grew from it.

That crap about muppets was beneath a serious discussion. I'll be happy to talk about muppets with you on an off topic thread.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 12:11:59 AM   
onceshattered


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/30/2012
Status: offline
Thanks for the reply Aries.

I agree that if not done correctly or maybe with someone that I don't trust it could be a very bad thing.

This Dom that I experienced it with I realize I had/have a great respect for. He did "lift me up" emotionally afterward, at least it felt like it. lol During the moment it was hard to tell.

I will say that afterward, I didn't feel... depressed. I felt a sadness because in what he said there was some little truth...but mostly I felt an amazingly FREE feeling. It's very contradictory but it was like seeing those button issues spread out before me was Empowering.


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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 12:13:03 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		A question that should be contemplated rather than answered.

Were your parents emotionally healthy, supportive people, or not?

If not, might this have something to do with things? Is there an underlying issue that needs acknowledgment?

I ask, because I know what I know. Stuff like that tries to drag you back into the mud, for no reason other than familiarity.

If this ain't you, then that is so.

Edit : Because I could have said that better.

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 8/12/2012 12:20:58 AM >

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 12:27:20 AM   
onceshattered


Posts: 117
Joined: 7/30/2012
Status: offline 		@LadyPact -
My apologies if I have offended you, it was definitely not intended. I try to lighten the mood when I'm nervous about something. Please believe that this is a very serious issue for me, despite my obviously bad placement of humor.

I do appreciate your responses, however. It is encouraging to hear that it is possible to grow from this. I didn't expect myself to react to it the way that I did and in turn it was overwhelming.

One of the things I'm concerned about is not knowing when "enough is enough" for ME. Common sense tells me that this kind of undertaking should be eased into. Pushing a little further each time so that both the Dom and I could explore those boundaries. Yet I found that I wanted more and more as the experienced continued. How can I avoid going too far if I don't know just how far is too far to begin with?

If I'm wrong, please let me know.


@FrostFlake

Those are questions that I am currently contemplating. Thank you for mentioning them as it does justify my own thought process at the moment.


edit: fixed spelling and added reply

< Message edited by onceshattered -- 8/12/2012 12:33:08 AM >

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 12:36:14 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


Is it just wrong? Hell, no! Why should emotional play be seen any different than physical play in the right hands? The fact that other people can't use this effectively has no relevance to Me. Sorry. That's not My problem.

Yes, people with self esteem issues can do this and it can be HELPFUL in releaving those issues. It's like any other tool in play. Use = Get result.

Absolutely! Proper aftercare is often the distinguishing line between emotional S/m and abuse. Know the difference.

In our case, clip grew from it.




Can you tell us an example of what you would do to
get positive results? I'm picturing some kind of
thing similar to making a person confront their fears
to overcome them but I'm having a hard time with
the concept.

-ARIES

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 1:00:04 AM   
DomThoughts


Posts: 50
Joined: 11/29/2006
Status: offline 		I Have always been someone who has pushed and explored the mental and psychological aspects of D/s, the physical side has only ever been a tool to push the stuff that I find interesting, rather than an end in its own right.

In that context I find that pretty much every encounter I've had has had some aspect of emotional masochism to it. It doesn't have to be damaging, it doesn't have to derogatory. It is just picking up on those little self doubts we all have and exploring them during play.

After all, what is humiliation if it isn't a form of emotional masochism. It is producing an emotional response as a result of some form of negative feedback. If a girl responds to being called a whore in the middle of play, how is that different than calling someone fat in the middle of play?

Now if I was playing with a girl who actually had deep seated issues with her weight then that wouldn't be a thing to do, but for something that she 'just' fears she is then in play that becomes a very strong button, and I feel for those who don't have the understanding to explore it.

Obviously like any other aspect of S&M there is caution needed. You need to know that your partner has at least a basic understanding of the underlying psychology of what is happening. But just as you wouldn't let someone inexperienced come at you with a knife, you need to be just as careful with words.

I wrote a bit of a blog post exploring my thoughts on this a while ago - https://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/320885/

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 1:37:21 AM   
BambiBoi


Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onceshattered

My Questions

Having little experience with this, I can see how this kind of "play" could be detrimental to the emotional well-being of a submissive in the long-term.

1) Can a submissive with existing self-esteem issues successfully engage in this kind of play without it causing serious long-lasting damage?

2) Can proper aftercare be effective in avoiding that damage?

3) Is emotional masochism just "wrong"?

4) Are there any submissives out there that feel like this kind of activity actually makes them stronger?

5) If Kermit and Miss Piggy had offspring would they be "Figs" or "Pogs"?


Conclusion

The intensity that I felt during this was amazing, however I wasn't ready... I didn't have the skills, tools, mindset necessary to follow through and that scared me because it turned out to be something that I really did crave despite the damage it might have caused me. How do I embrace this?


1) For this kind of play to be effective, the bottom must be self conscious about some perceived weakness. For example, I'm quite bright. I'm immune from being made to worry about how I stack up compared to my cohort. But if someone properly attacked my body shape-which is something I worry about-I could be floored. To answer the question directly, yes. There are certain chinks in your (and everybody's) armor that are safer from attack. You've made peace with the fact that you're learning. So the statement "Young naive little pup... Ready to bend over for anyone who will point out a flaw" is less painful than a statement about body image issues.

2) I don't believe aftercare can make the situation better. I believe best-case scenario after care can get you back to square 1 and make you feel like deep down that top/dominant accepts you despite your potential flaws. But all the best aftercare in the world isn't going to make you thin after being made to snort while being called a piggy.

3) Emotional masochism is not wrong, but its dangerous. You need a bottom who is susceptible to it, without being irreparably damaged by it. You also need a top who has an adept hand with humiliation. The excitement is riding the line between a total breakdown and just being offended. It's not enough to get the dagger in, it must be twisted. It's the difference between "you've got an ugly nose" and "Every man you've ever blown as pushed your face down and looked up. That's because you're hideous. Admit it, that men always enjoy you more from behind." (Here not discussing Shattered, whose nose is cute as a button.) One of those is mean. The other is cruel.

4) I'm sure addressing these issues via the faults being called out directly is somewhat therapeutic for some. But if the wound is too fresh, the bottom too soft, or the top too hard then any potential benefit disappears.

General notes: Emotional masochism is a delicate blend of exploiting a true weakness, reading a bottom's soft spots, pressing them, and then allowing a release of that pressure. It's easy to start, but hard to finish properly. If you feel like we understand each other, I would be more than happy to continue privately or publicly about my experience with it, but there are two major points to take away:

1) You, Shattered, must be self aware enough to disregard insults when they are too cruel and don't fit your purpose.
2) Whatever Dom you find to do this needs to have a way to finish the session by relieving the pressure. It can be as simple as saying ".... and I wouldn't have you any other way." But to run a sub through the ringer and then say "Well... Get out" is not acceptable to me.

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 2:32:46 AM   
RaspberryLemon


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline 		It's definitely not for everybody, but although I can't claim to understand them...some people like it and can even find it helpful.

Personally, emotional masochism would destroy me.

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 3:09:59 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Here is my opinion for what it's worth:

ORIGINAL: onceshattered

1) Can a submissive with existing self-esteem issues successfully engage in this kind of play without it causing serious long-lasting damage?

Yes and no. When it is with someone who is very careful and can manage the aftermath and is not foolishly ignorant of possible outcomes then yes. I would say proceed veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy cautiously and slowly though. Even a seasoned and smart person, well-versed in psych issues and treatment can still be taken aback when things fall apart. Slow, slow, and more slow is really important to avoid / catch any potential harm.

2) Can proper aftercare be effective in avoiding that damage?

I'd say it is imperative but still possibly not enough. Depending on the level and nature of the sub's psyche, professional support may be in order - just in case.

3) Is emotional masochism just "wrong"?

As long as it is consensual, no.

4) Are there any submissives out there that feel like this kind of activity actually makes them stronger?

I'm sure there are.

5) If Kermit and Miss Piggy had offspring would they be "Figs" or "Pogs"?

They'd be Immaculate Conception.

Conclusion

The intensity that I felt during this was amazing, however I wasn't ready... I didn't have the skills, tools, mindset necessary to follow through and that scared me because it turned out to be something that I really did crave despite the damage it might have caused me. How do I embrace this?


With someone you know very well, who knows you very well, with whom you have a strong attachment. Barring that, I think you are playing with fire.

Best,
sunshine


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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 5:01:40 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Putting on the disclaimer. This post is not for everyone.


quote:

ORIGINAL: onceshattered

@LadyPact -
My apologies if I have offended you, it was definitely not intended. I try to lighten the mood when I'm nervous about something. Please believe that this is a very serious issue for me, despite my obviously bad placement of humor.

I do appreciate your responses, however. It is encouraging to hear that it is possible to grow from this. I didn't expect myself to react to it the way that I did and in turn it was overwhelming.

One of the things I'm concerned about is not knowing when "enough is enough" for ME. Common sense tells me that this kind of undertaking should be eased into. Pushing a little further each time so that both the Dom and I could explore those boundaries. Yet I found that I wanted more and more as the experienced continued. How can I avoid going too far if I don't know just how far is too far to begin with?

If I'm wrong, please let me know.

You didn't offend Me. It does worry Me a bit that you're going for nervous humor. If you can't tackle this particular subject without it on a message board, how well are you going to do talking about this with a partner or a potential one?

In some ways, you can compare emotional sadism/masochism to the way you'd look at physical play in regard to your question. Most people when they are first starting out don't go into their first scene balls to the wall. You want to do things such as monitor how badly a person bruises from play, if they are going to have any severe drop, and so on. One of the golden rules is it's better to do too little than to do too much. (The good part is it fits very well with the 'always leaving wanting more' theory.)

The difference with emotional play is that I, as a top, can not visibly see if there is damage being inflicted. If I cut you too deep with a scalpel, it's immediately apparent to Me. There's a bunch of blood and the wound may require medical care. We take measures to prevent infection. If I cut you too deep with words, I can't see it. Without good, straight forward serious communication, I won't know if there has been damage done or not. More support for the reasoning behind the better to do too little than too much theory.

Knowing how to find that 'enough is enough' level is mostly trial and error. Emotional play is one of the easiest ways for going too far to look an awful lot like abuse, even when both people have consented. A number of folks will only engage in any kind of emotional play in the dungeon (meaning any specific scene time and space) rather than making it a regular part of their relationship. A slap on the ass while someone is doing dishes is usually playful. Calling somebody a worthless whore during dishes probably won't go over so well. There's no separation between play and relationship boundaries and that can also make it feel abusive. (In a sense, see the way I addressed you in My above response to show the difference.)

Emotional S/m comes in all kinds of varieties. Some folks just really enjoy having their emotional scabs picked at. Others want to use that kind of play to allow certain emotional wounds to heal, much like some folks get into rape play to help them heal from a past experience. Another category of people want to expose themselves to their Dominant, warts and all, and see at the end of the scene that their D loves them no matter what they think of themselves. I'm almost willing to guarantee before the end of this thread, somebody is going to come along and post about how that is exactly why this kind of play shouldn't be conducted. Because it seems too much like BDSM being used for therapy. At the same time there are some of us who enjoy it just because it gets us wet and we're having a good time doing it.

This may or may not get this post pulled by one of the Moderators, but I'm going to throw it in there, anyway. One of the best posters these boards have ever had on the topic of emotional S/m is a gal named LuckyAlbatross. Her other name here was Emerald. Some of her writing on why she got so much enjoyment out of the practice. You may be able to find some of them by using the search feature.

Now, you have to do something for Me. I want you to work on taking on this subject without the nervous humor. While this kind of play can be really rewarding, you're potentially playing with fire if you don't say what you mean and mean what you say about it, ok?



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 5:30:43 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
Can you tell us an example of what you would do to
get positive results? I'm picturing some kind of
thing similar to making a person confront their fears
to overcome them but I'm having a hard time with
the concept.

-ARIES
Actually, you're right on track. It can work the very same way as a person facing their fears and overcoming them. Take something like low self esteem. Most folks are going to say that can only be overcome by using positive esteem building methods. Now, don't get Me wrong. For some folks that's the only way it's going to work and something like emotional S/m would make them feel lower than dirt.

Others can overcome their poor feelings about themselves if somebody goes in there, sticks their finger in those emotional wounds, and pokes around for a while. Hehehehe..... Like this:

Ever hear that expression that some use about being completely torn down so they can be built back up? That's not always a fantasist line. Some can use emotional S/m to do just that. They may have to get in touch with emotional pain to do it, but it can work.

Of course, let's not skip those who don't want their wounds closed up. These can be some damn fun people. The ones who get off from being made to cry, beg, scrape across the floor because you stuck your finger in that wound and made them a blubbering mess. For emotional S/m players, that kind of stuff is HOT. We're just getting there by using emotional pain, rather than physical.

Even from that, you can make people stronger. You don't even really have to be trying to. From the emotional masochists standpoint, other people don't really have the same kind of access to that wound inside themselves as what they've put into the hands of the Dominant that they love and trust. The outside world just doesn't have that kind of power over that wound anymore because the masochist has seen the depths that they can be taken to over it and it gives the freedom from other people using it against them. That can actually be a really beautiful thing.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 7:20:18 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Ma'am
You continue to amaze me.

Excellent posts.

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 7:28:58 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I consider that a wonderful compliment coming from you. Perhaps you would like to add coming from the other side?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 7:45:48 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Great posts above.

OP, no one can tell you what to feel about such an intense topic.

For me, as a submissive, emotional masochism is a huge turn off. I don't engage in any activity that will cause me to feel bad about myself. Why would I? Why would I be with someone who wanted to hurt my feelings by using my flaws or weaknesses against me? That is not hot or supportive on any level.

I know there are alot of people for whom being called worthless, stupid, a fat pig, ugly, etc. find that arousing.

Not me. I think one can safely indulge their fantasies in a safe emotional way without being damaged.

I am reminded of the comic Mo'Nique who once described a sexual encounter where the guy was fucking her from behind, slapping her ass and she was really getting into it. She kept saying, call me a bitch, Daddy, call me a bitch!

So he started calling her a bitch and then as they were getting close...he called her a fat bitch.

She freaked out.

The moral is if you are confused by emotional masochism and have felt it going too far, I would stay clear until your self esteem is better and/or, you discover it might not really be for you, or, you find your momentary arousal to be worth the emotional after effects.

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 7:54:46 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onceshattered

oooh nooo! I've said the words out loud! I've done some reading the past few days on this topic and during my readings, I've found that often times people use this phrase when making a joke... this assumption comes from the almost always included "(LOL)" afterward. So I'm honestly confused and I have some questions. I'm honestly seeking input from anyone, be it Dom, Domme, sub, Master, slave, monkey, turtle, or hare.

Some context:

I generally believe that I'm a "kick-ass, fun to be around, interesting to talk to, awesome" person. I do, however, admit that I have some self-esteem issues. There is that part of me that is insecure because of my weight. I also seem to sabotage many of my relationships. From recent discussions I have discovered that, even though it hurts like hell to hear, I do become aroused when a Dom pushes those emotional buttons. The more useless and damaged he made me feel, the more aroused I became. It was as if he was looking into my soul and pulling out all of the darkness and using those things to knock me down and yet STILL... I was aroused.. and I don't mean just "wet and gooey" I mean my entire "self" was aroused. It was as if seeing all of that darkness spread out before me made feel more alive then I ever have before.


My Questions

Having little experience with this, I can see how this kind of "play" could be detrimental to the emotional well-being of a submissive in the long-term.

1) Can a submissive with existing self-esteem issues successfully engage in this kind of play without it causing serious long-lasting damage?

2) Can proper aftercare be effective in avoiding that damage?

3) Is emotional masochism just "wrong"?

4) Are there any submissives out there that feel like this kind of activity actually makes them stronger?

5) If Kermit and Miss Piggy had offspring would they be "Figs" or "Pogs"?


Conclusion

The intensity that I felt during this was amazing, however I wasn't ready... I didn't have the skills, tools, mindset necessary to follow through and that scared me because it turned out to be something that I really did crave despite the damage it might have caused me. How do I embrace this?


I don't visit the boards often anymore. But this caught my attention.

I can somewhat relate to the OP. I suppose I became an emotional masochist. I didn't want to be one. It went against everything in my personality. I'm a happy, positive person who lost all of that during a period of amazing stress in my life due to a lot of changes that all happened at the same time. The death of my father, divorce, financial insecurity, jobless, living on my own for the first time ever, worries about the effects of of that on my daughters, the added stresses of the stresses that Shorey was also going through at the time. Just to name a few. The self esteem issues I've controlled all of my life resurfaced with a vengeance and the end result is that I took it all out on Shore. He eventually walked away from it. You can only hurt someone so many times before they've had enough. I found that out the hard way.

To answer your questions from my point of view....
1. Only for so long. It then becomes tedious, energy draining and a complete turn off. For both of us. It only works if you are both into it. Neither one of us were.
2. See the answer for #1.
3. For us it was. It wasn't my nature and threw me into a depression which I couldn't handle.
4. I suppose it has in a way. I've spent the last five months alone, working on becoming the vibrant woman I once was.

End result....emotional masochism was not healthy for me. It destroyed the best relationship I ever had. It has also taught me what I don't like about myself and has given me the motivation to purge that out of my system.


_____________________________



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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 8:51:25 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline 		I had to Google the definition of "emotional masochism," and while I don't feel that I am quite that, I do have some leanings toward it. My relatively inexperienced opinions:

1) Can a submissive with existing self-esteem issues successfully engage in this kind of play without it causing serious long-lasting damage?

I think many people have self-esteem issues. If I were a dominant, I wouldn't want a submissive of any type with self-esteem issues, never mind one that wanted to fuck around with her emotions in such a way. Never mind D/s, as a woman, I wouldn't want a partner of any type with self esteem issues. But it seems the percentage is high so I suppose the pool to choose from is limited. Anyway, I don't think one has to necessarily have "issues" to realize one can improve. So, personally, if I had self-esteem issues, I would choose to steer clear of submission altogether until I was in a better state. But that by no means equals perfection. It just means I'm of a clear head to take on becoming the type of partner I'm best at.

I also don't consider it "play." I am not referring to a scene in which I had to endure some deep humiliation (though that has happened as well). I'm referring to my ongoing desire to grow, and how I feel that my ability to remove the stumbling blocks to clarity and see (and still love) myself for the imperfect person I am instills in me a certain dedication to the man that helps me realize that.

2) Can proper aftercare be effective in avoiding that damage?

No idea. I've never felt the need for aftercare of even the limited sort, but I've never delved very deeply, either. (Though, I suppose others might think I have.)

3) Is emotional masochism just "wrong"?

No.

4) Are there any submissives out there that feel like this kind of activity actually makes them stronger?

I understand some pleasure to be found in an emotional struggle. There is a certain gratification that I feel when I'm pushed, forced to handle circumstances and behavior towards me that I'm not comfortable with. Maybe that even, momentarily, make me feel bad. The maze my brain has to work through to reach a happy end point is like candy to me. The gratification is coming through it on the other end. The feeling of having weathered something and having learned from it and, ultimately, feeling that much closer to and more exposed to...him. The way I handle myself in my own relationships is exposure. Facing head on the difficult things to bear is part of that.

I am also, though, emotionally strong. I can handle shit, which is maybe why I need the external push. I wouldn't presume to suggest that this would be a strengthening activity for everyone.

5) If Kermit and Miss Piggy had offspring would they be "Figs" or "Pogs"?

You end your post any way you want to. If that's how you're comfortable communicating, so be it. I do the same thing, and if it makes me feel better to end a heavy bit of dialogue on a lighter note, so what? The reference to Muppets in particular might have been a little creepy, but the attempt at levity was not.

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 8/12/2012 9:02:22 AM >

(in reply to onceshattered)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 9:35:59 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

The moral is if you are confused by emotional masochism and have felt it going too far, I would stay clear until your self esteem is better and/or, you discover it might not really be for you, or, you find your momentary arousal to be worth the emotional after effects.


I know my trigger words and tell a partner to go ahead and call me X, Y, and Z, but please do not use 1 or its synonyms.

If I found a new trigger I'd try to notice that without judgement and then add it to the list.

OP - safewords aren't just for physical pain

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(in reply to sexyred1)
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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/12/2012 9:54:32 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Can you tell us an example of what you would do to
get positive results? I'm picturing some kind of
thing similar to making a person confront their fears
to overcome them but I'm having a hard time with
the concept.


I'm sorry onceshattered, I have limited time right now, so I'm not going to address your questions directly because I feel others have done so very well already, and I think that it would be useful to address this part of the equation as well.


I personally love emotional sadism. I love it in all it's forms
- verbally (God you're fat an ugly!)
- physically in the form of degradation/humiliation play (you failed to clean properly! Lick the floor/toilet/whatever clean you disgusting bitch!)
- unavoidable repercussions (The D-type "snapping" at me and taking their frustration out of me, when the root of their annoyance has got nothing to do with me at all.)

However, it's play that I only engage in with a partner with whom I'm emotionally very close.
It also only works if -like BambiBoi already pointed out- you play on my actual insecurities. Telling me I'm stupid won't work. Telling me I'm fat will only work when I'm fat. And telling me I'm ugly will only work depending on exactly how you go about telling me that. For it to work you really need to take me down to the deepest pits of humiliation that my soul bares, which are the doubts I have about myself, and the self-esteem issues I have that are outside of the D-type.

The aftercare isn't really even all that important to me, but what is of the utmost importance to me is that it's only done in a relationship where I KNOW to the depth of my soul that the other person cares about me... warts and all.
In that context, emotional sadism becomes liberating to me, exactly because it plays into my own insecurities.

By pointing out, and bringing to the forefront exactly those things I fear/hate/despite most about myself and then still loving me just the same afterwards the D-type is telling me: "I see you. All of you. The good and the bad. The perfect and the not so perfect. The beauty and the ugly. And after all that. After seeing ALL of you. And knowing ALL of you. I still love you. I still care about you. I still want you. I want ALL of you. You cannot hide your flaws from me. You cannot hide your weaknesses from me. And you don't need to. Because I will be with you because of ALL of you, and not just because of the best of you."

However, that last part is something the D-type cannot tell me. It wouldn't work just to be told that in aftercare or something like it. It's something that needs to be shown through actions.
But when that happens, emotional sadism can be hugely liberating for me, and strengthen my relationship with the D-type to its core.

Edited to add: Oh, and while it wasn't the focus of my post, this resonates very much with me as well: "LadyPact: The ones who get off from being made to cry, beg, scrape across the floor because you stuck your finger in that wound and made them a blubbering mess. For emotional S/m players, that kind of stuff is HOT."
It totally is hot and it makes me fucking wet out of my mind.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 8/12/2012 10:00:03 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to ARIES83)
Profile   Post #: 20
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