RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism"

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/15/2012 10:55:32 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: onceshattered

Thank you so much for your reply. It was the replies like this one that really made me step back. I have enough emotional problems to begin with and while they are things that I'm working through, the idea that I could sent down much further from where I started is scarey. In the end, I'm glad that I worked up the courage to ask this question, because without the input I might have just floundered with it and eventually ended up in a very bad situation.

I'm glad you worked up the courage to ask, and I'm glad I worked up the courage to open your thread.

Here's something that came to me after that long post. I had had a lifetime of feeling bad/sad/pained (insert the old "crazy childhood story here). There was something comforting for me in that last relationship, of feeling pained, because it was a familiar place. It was home. It was a dysfunctional home, but still home, so part of my draw was wanting to go back to that emotionally familiar place, toxic as it was.

I really do recommend finding "Happy" as an alternative

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/15/2012 11:08:27 PM

LadyPact

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First to NV, it may have taken a little while, but I'm glad you added. It's important to see the whole picture and different results. Thank you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Thanks for sharing your perspective (and same to the s-types/bottoms). It's given me a lot to think about. As a sadist, I've so far been keeping emotional sadism out of it, mostly because experience leads me to I suspect I'm a razor and I have never tried to turn that side of myself into a scalpel, nor learning to use it. Thanks for the pointers and the reminder that that which can harm can heal and vice versa. Genuinely interested if you have other pointers, too.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

Hello, Aswad. I'm glad you found the contributions interesting.

As for additional pointers, these are just opinions of My own, but they may be useful.

Expect you as the D to go through the same phases in emotional sadism as you did for the physical stuff. Trying things out, finding if the go well, and how do *you* feel about doing them. Even if your girl is loving it, there might be certain parts that you don't like. Words or phrases that you aren't comfortable using at first. Start slow and work your way up.

I don't really have to tell you to know your girl well. I know you already do. This probably isn't the best type of play when you don't. When you don't know someone well, you have no clue of what triggers they have or what is too much. You can stumble onto something that really isn't good territory for them easily. It doesn't hurt to have a talk with her about what areas will and won't be easy for her to handle and what probably shouldn't be used.

As you decide to get into this, you may want to consider additional post scene discussions a few days after this type of play. Make sure your girl isn't carrying negative feelings about herself or thinking that your feelings for her are any different than they were before. When not engaging in the emotional S/m, lots of positive reinforcement. Keep doing the things that keep her self esteem high.

While not everyone feels this way, it may be best to only keep this in the play area or during scene time only. It helps to draw that line between how you treat your girl for emotional S/m and how that is different than the rest of your life.

My best to you and yours.

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/15/2012 11:09:27 PM

onceshattered

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I really don't understand why I was drawn to it the way I was. I just knew that what he was doing made me feel broken and incredible all at the same time. I should love happy... who doesn't love happy?? meh i don't know.. I made a list of my fears and insecurities today....it's a pretty long list to be honest. So there was plenty there for him to grasp onto, I feel lucky that he only did the small amount that he -did- do. Otherwise I might not still be hanging around this site.

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/16/2012 12:25:29 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

The thing is, he was (and probably still is) an emotional sadist, to the degree of not really caring about bringing me back to earth when he ripped me down - that was my job. And I didn't do it very well. So the longer we were together, the darker the places he brought me. He taught me, literally, to believe I was smaller than the dirt on the sole of his shoe.

I've had a similar experience, though not nearly as extreme/deep as what you're describing.

An ex of mine used to tell me consistently that he cared more about his dogs than he did about me, and other things like that to emphasize how little I was worth, or meant to him. In the beginning of our relationship I managed to take it quite well, and it was actually a turn on for me because of the fact that I tend to respond well to emotional sadism. I took it well because all his casual comments where grounded in my believe that he did truly care about me, and was just using emotional sadism a tool to take me down a peg.

However, the longer we where together, the more casual, demeaning and callous his attitude towards me became, and the more I truly become convinced that that's actually how he felt about me. I started from believing he cared about me and was using fake non-caring as a tool to enhance our relationship to believe that he truly didn't give a fuck about be and was using fake caring as a tool to trick me into staying in our relationship.
It did stuff to my self-esteem, trust in other people, and my ability to take certain things (even as a joke) that should NEVER happened in a healthy, balanced D/s relationship that uses emotional sadism.

It's also why the aftercare for me when dealing with emotional sadism isn't necessarily him telling me what he said to demean me wasn't true, but I instead need to know to the core of my being that he truly does care about me. Whereas there used to be a time where I may have been able to do low-level emotional masochism play in a casual play session, there is no way on hell that I'm even willing to try to see if I'm up for something like that today... too many bad trigger points left from the past.

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I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/16/2012 4:19:44 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

In saying that, I am in the getting-to-know-you stage with a Dom and we are talking about meeting up for coffee. JUST Coffee and talk.

I've met dozens of guys for coffee. Some I've even met a second time.

I endeavor to go into these meets with no expectations or attachments as the vision of who a person is online is often damaged by reality. I also try to meet them ASAP so I don't become emotionally invested in their online persona.

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/16/2012 7:04:33 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

However, the longer we where together, the more casual, demeaning and callous his attitude towards me became, and the more I truly become convinced that that's actually how he felt about me. I started from believing he cared about me and was using fake non-caring as a tool to enhance our relationship to believe that he truly didn't give a fuck about be and was using fake caring as a tool to trick me into staying in our relationship.

This describes my experience well. In retrospect, I still believe that was the case.

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 8/16/2012 7:05:05 AM >

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/16/2012 2:21:03 PM

limpshorty

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Having my self esteem squashed isn't necessary. It's a done deal, with the damage already there. Now, I deal with it by running away from it. <shrug> not that effective. But, the thing is, reading a domme's profile that goes on for half a page about how much she loves her torture sessions, and her favorite kinky tools is all coming up like I wrote this fantasy myself, and the last words are "and then fuck you senseless all night."

See, she isn't an emotional sadist. She thought all that attention with the ropes and paddles was going to bring me to the edge of a broken spirit, and then she would use her sexual power to lift me up. Me, I just hit hide user, and move on. It's so hard to explain that if that last line had been " and then snuggle up and fall asleep listening to you whimper all night long." I would hit the send message button like lightning. I'm already suffering. If a woman wants to savor that, for whatever reason she has, it works for me.

Yeah, I think it can be acceptable to be an emotional sadist, or masochist. But like edge play in every area, you need to know each other first.

limpshorty

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RE: Confused by "Emotional Masochism" - 8/18/2012 5:00:15 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

As for additional pointers, these are just opinions of My own, but they may be useful.

I suspect they will be. Thanks.

quote:

Expect you as the D to go through the same phases in emotional sadism as you did for the physical stuff. Trying things out, finding if the go well, and how do *you* feel about doing them. Even if your girl is loving it, there might be certain parts that you don't like. Words or phrases that you aren't comfortable using at first. Start slow and work your way up.

Just to be clear: we're both talking about emotional pain, not humiliation and the like, right?

I don't feel any particular way about doing it, much as there are only a few "sadistic" activities that I feel one way or the other about in and of themselves. It makes no difference to me whether I am applying pressure to the iliac plexus or using a whip. What I'm fond of is the inflicting itself and the response to it. Both positive and negative responses are appreciated, but they obviously tickle different parts of me.

As for emotional pain, my uncertainty is similar to that for physical pain: I don't use any methods of inflicting physical pain that I don't feel I have a decent grasp of, in terms of risks and management of risk. Consider a titty skewer: I have an idea of the tool, the anatomy and the healing process, but I wouldn't skewer a breast without some mentoring or a girl that would be fine with the risk associated with discovering the technique without a mentor. Same principle for emotional sadism, but the potential damage is higher (realistically, I wouldn't cause serious, lasting injuries with a skewer unless I were careless).

I can't really think of any sort of emotionally sadistic "cuts" that Ars would like, hence being somewhat curious and finding some of the input from the s-types very interesting, and looking for feedback from people with extensive experience. Of course, it is a bit academic since we're no longer in that kind of dynamic, but I still find it an interesting subject and have started looking at adding a slave or pet to the household. In any case, since it's a part of me, it's worth figuring out how it works, if only to integrate it the same way I've integrated other things.

You gave good, sound advice on the how of it. Now, I'm back to being curious about the what of it, so to speak. Not the easiest thing to convey, I realize. If you do have some input on that, as well, I will be as grateful for that as I am for this.

I wish you well,
— Aswad.

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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