RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible

RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (Full Version)

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VideoAdminTheta -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 5:47:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Please use clean,renewable energy while keeping it clean.......thankyou [:)] Thank you, I needed that laugh!

TheHeretic -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 5:50:00 PM)
As I said on another thread (and tried to say on this one, but I guess the cleanup wasn't quite finished), we need to be generating MORE power, not learning to make do with less. We need a breakthrough, a great leap forward, be it fusion, or something else.

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 5:51:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Money doesn't just go away. Are you worried there will be noting to spend it on? Petroleum in the U.S. controls the farming industry. And any good business knows to grow and change with the market. Imagine the savings from NOT having to clean up the pollution. Imagine the boon to the fishing and sporting industries. 134 billion gallons of fuel per year x .41 per gallon = 55 billion a year in tax revenue. Where is the government going to replace that income??? The money does not go away, the people get to keep it. That just is not right. Why do you think Obama wants to keep his hands in the green energy development and why do you think Kennedy was against windfarming off Cape Cod??? They will go whole hog in that direction if it provides a taxable source of energy. What are you talking about? Consumers are 2/3 of the economy. From a tax standpoint, what does it matter where they spend it and who pays the income tax on it? And what does that have to do with 100% green energy a real possibility, vs. not feasible?

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 5:52:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic As I said on another thread (and tried to say on this one, but I guess the cleanup wasn't quite finished), we need to be generating MORE power, not learning to make do with less. We need a breakthrough, a great leap forward, be it fusion, or something else. Three square miles of sunlight would power the entire electrical grid. We have lots of energy available, if we learn to use it.

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 5:55:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery My house is heated passively with solar. So is mine. I need some damn electricity to cool it down, though. That's a design flaw, Rich. I need no air conditioning at all. There's a large garden supply/nursery near here, out in the baking sun. No AC. It's never over 65 in that place (lots of concrete in that case). Beautiful place.

atursvcMaam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 7:07:59 PM)
quote: What are you talking about? Consumers are 2/3 of the economy. From a tax standpoint, what does it matter where they spend it and who pays the income tax on it? And what does that have to do with 100% green energy a real possibility, vs. not feasible? The tax question comes up when and how one tries to tax the energy source (the fuel) How do you measure and tax the wind energy or solar energy? Most people have grown up feeling that the air and the sunshine are free. will that change? If you tax the equipment used in the conversion process by 15 % (based on gas taxed at 41cent per gallon being approximate 15% of 3.50 per gallon) then bringing your product to market is not cost competitive. Would you, as a consumer, purchase a vehicle with less, or even the same power as yours, for 15% more than yours cost. Even though you might save money in the long run, the total cost up front will be 50% higher, but you will break even at about 7 years down the road. By then any tax break for buying green will be discontinued. Come on, it will be good for the environment. It makes a bit of a difference where the money comes from, and to the government it is very important where it goes.

TheHeretic -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 7:25:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery That's a design flaw, Rich. I need no air conditioning at all. There's a large garden supply/nursery near here, out in the baking sun. No AC. It's never over 65 in that place (lots of concrete in that case). Beautiful place. Lots of businesses here use a similar design, Muse. You can also go down into an abandoned gold mine, and find it a very pleasant 72 degrees, year round. I'd rather not live in an example of either, and I suspect you wouldn't wish to, either. The "design flaw" of my house, is that it is in the desert. While you might get a sweaty night or two in the dog days, I'll be cooling this house all the way into October, and the system was turned on for the first time in May. Now we practice excellent heat management, the house is well situated, we almost exclusively run the evaporative cooler, instead of the central air, and flat out piss people off when we tell them how low our summer power bill is, but with all of that said, we still need to bring the temperature down, and that requires power. It's worth pointing out, and I have to wonder if the investors in these windmills know it, that the local ones are going to be pretty fucking worthless on the bad summer days, because our winds don't get going until well after the heat of the day. I also wonder if all the people who see our countryside as the ideal location for hundreds of acres of photovoltaic panels have kept in mind that those work best in a cold environment, and a lot of efficiency is lost when the temperature hits a hundred and fuckteen.

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 8:00:03 PM)
Rich, different designs and power sources are obviously going to indicate different choices in different regions. For example, earth-sheltered houses rock in New Mexico. Here, moisture is a far more significant barrier to that. My home is very open. It's partially earth-sheltered, but with all conventional windows where you'd expect them. The floor absorbs the daytime heat, radiates it at night. In the summer, trees add shade, the leaves dropping for winter to let in more sun. AND I live in the country. Asphalt jungles raise the temperature a good 10-15 degrees, and hold the heat at night. Yes, this house is built for right here, and would not be a suitable design for the California desert. Nor would a kick ass CA desert home be a good design here. Incidentally, solar electric, despite its promotion, is not a good choice here either--lots of cloudy days. Wind, though, as we are on very high ground, is an excellent choice. In other areas, the reverse would be true. And an "extremely hot" day here is 90.

Hillwilliam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 8:34:38 PM)
If the RE market will keep improving, I'm looking at the cost of about 4000 SF of solar cells for the roof of my office building. I have a metal south facing roof with the right slope for this latitude. Payback on investment is about 7 years which is damn good for real property investments. After that, the TVA is sending me a check every month.

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 9:06:07 PM)
Cool. Very nice. Permaculture gardens on city rooftops would work wonders, without needing maintenance. And provide food.

DomKen -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 9:39:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Cool. Very nice. Permaculture gardens on city rooftops would work wonders, without needing maintenance. And provide food. Got a bunch of those in Chicago already. http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=resources&id=8708389

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 9:58:34 PM)
That's not permaculture, but still very cool.

TheHeretic -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 10:03:29 PM)
Yes. Very cool. Very nice. Is it going to run server farms, and keep them cool, though? Is it going to power the plants that pump out the hydrogen we'll turn around and pump back into our cars, trucks, and busses? Is it going to power high speed rail, through long winter nights? We need a strong, reliable source of power, that works 24/7/365, independent of weather conditions.

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/12/2012 10:20:43 PM)
Every bit makes that easier. One step at a time.

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/14/2012 8:43:45 AM)
This solar panel laid on the vast stretches of agricultural channels in Gujarat, India generates 1 MW of electricity per kilometer & prevents evaporation of 1 crore liters of water every year, a very great help to local (and not so local) agriculture. California could use this idea as well. [image]http://i.imgur.com/VBgst.jpg[/image]

MrBukani -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/14/2012 9:33:45 AM)
Hows the HooverDamn workin out for you?

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/14/2012 9:52:40 AM)
Very well. The population growth it helped spawn brought a separate set of problems. But the damn itself made all that possible. Have another bourbon.

Hillwilliam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/14/2012 10:22:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Hows the HooverDamn workin out for you? The annual generation of Hoover Dam varies. The maximum net generation was 10.348 TWh in 1984, and the minimum since 1940 was 2.648 TWh in 1956.[2] The average has been about 4.2 TWh/year.[2] That's TeraWattHours 1 TeraWatt is 1 Billion Kilowatts so it's been cranking out a shitload of juice over the past 70 Odd years.

PeonForHer -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/14/2012 10:40:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery This solar panel laid on the vast stretches of agricultural channels in Gujarat, India generates 1 MW of electricity per kilometer & prevents evaporation of 1 crore liters of water every year, a very great help to local (and not so local) agriculture. California could use this idea as well. [image]http://i.imgur.com/VBgst.jpg[/image] Bloody hell, that's a good idea. Two very big birds with one stone. I could imagine that being useful in a lot of places.

DomKen -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/14/2012 10:59:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Bloody hell, that's a good idea. Two very big birds with one stone. I could imagine that being useful in a lot of places. It's like the paper clip. Blindingly obvious once you see it but not something the average person would think up. I hope who ever did come up with the idea gets suitably wealthy.

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