RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible

RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 8:50:16 PM)
You've never driven through the farmland of California's central valley, have you Hillwilliam? If you had, you'd be aware just how much interaction there is with the irrigation channels and the roads. We only have the Aqueduct running around here, and it doesn't it doesn't parallel any roads, but a few cars still go in every year, at the bridges. One woman hit an icy patch last winter, and was very lucky to be saved by another motorist who stopped to investigate tire tracks going off the road, was able to locate her, and hold onto her until help arrived.

Hillwilliam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 8:55:00 PM)
Im aware that. A lot of canals go alongside roads but a lot dont. the ones that dont are the key. S Florida is very similar as most of the roads are built on fill dredged out of the canals. That's a shitload of $ to be made there with almost zero environmental impact. No kangaroo rats or gopher tortoises are inconvenienced and theres a shitpile oF ca$h to be made. Raw Capitali$m

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 8:58:43 PM)
How is this different than the bridges elsewhere? Here there is water everywhere. We invest in guard rails. Nonetheless, it's still a bullshit objection. Maybe you should just fill in all those dangerous aquaducts. [8\|] Safety first, right?

Sanity -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 9:44:49 PM)
Where do the lead smelters go for all the batteries you will need. Your city have any vacant lots? And whose back yard will host the toxic metals mines.

TheHeretic -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 10:05:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Im aware that. A lot of canals go alongside roads but a lot dont. the ones that dont are the key. S Florida is very similar as most of the roads are built on fill dredged out of the canals. That's a shitload of $ to be made there with almost zero environmental impact. No kangaroo rats or gopher tortoises are inconvenienced and theres a shitpile oF ca$h to be made. Raw Capitali$m Bullshit, Hillwilliam. It's a massive load of unnecessary expense, except, as I noted first, in a land poor environment. Much, much, easier and cheaper to acquire out of use farmland, and we have LOTS of that in the central valley, and get the same benefit of not having to worry about disturbing native species Gee, similar OSHA requirements to building a dam or bridge. Well, those won't add a nickel to construction cost, will they? Especially when the option is just to require steel toes, reflective vests, and hard hats, for crews working on dry land? The structure is plainly visible, reflected in the water. That's going to keep all the moisture contained underneath? Just to really mess it up, besides the moisture to turn dust and airborne particulate into a harder to clean crust on the surface of the panel, lets add the electical connections being in a higher humidity environment, and then factor in the birds and bugs that are going to be drawn to the area for water, and the impact they'll have on keeping the panels clean. Now if you want something practical, that works, the latest trend here is installing shade structures over parking lots, with the panels on top of those. No additional land gets used, there is a direct, quality of life, side benefit for people who don't have to get into 140 degrees cars at 5:00 (saves gas as well, since the a/c doesn't have to work as hard), and they aren't hideously ugly.

TheHeretic -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 10:08:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam A lot of canals go alongside roads but a lot dont. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Most irrigation channels don't have public roads beside them so your last argument is null. Moving the bar, Hillwilliam? I'm absolutely shocked to think you would do such a thing. Oh wait. Nevermind.

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 10:27:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Where do the lead smelters go for all the batteries you will need. Your city have any vacant lots? And whose back yard will host the toxic metals mines. You environmentalist you. [8\|]

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 10:31:34 PM)
quote: Now if you want something practical, that works, the latest trend here is installing shade structures over parking lots, with the panels on top of those. No additional land gets used, there is a direct, quality of life, side benefit for people who don't have to get into 140 degrees cars at 5:00 (saves gas as well, since the a/c doesn't have to work as hard), and they aren't hideously ugly. Gosh, we have dew fall every night, and none of the "crust" (???) you talk about on people's roof panels. The parking shade idea, though, rocks.

tj444 -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 10:44:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam No kangaroo rats or gopher tortoises are inconvenienced and theres a shitpile oF ca$h to be made. Some parts of Florida have scrub jays and some other critters that restrict or stop the ability to build in certain areas.. one area you cant build in a scrub jay area but they were talking about changing that, if you wanted to pay something like 17 or 18k.. not sure what was decided if anything yet.. and if your lot is on a canal there could be quite a cost to do whatever the city/county wants done along the canal to allow you to build... .. just sayin'.. its sorta funny tho, in some areas if you have a pool or septic tank you need to keep it full of water/liquid or it will pop up out of the ground, apparently.. that was what i read anyway.. [:-]

TheHeretic -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 10:54:03 PM)
Don't try sucking up, Muse. Weren't you telling us earlier that "very hot" in your area was a high in the 90's? Perhaps the lower temps wouldn't bake things to a crusty film, as happens here?

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 10:56:06 PM)
Ha! Suck up to you? For what? Sounds miserable in your eyes. You should move.

TheHeretic -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/15/2012 11:01:04 PM)
There is more to quality of life than scenery, Muse, but I'll get back home to Oregon, someday. Besides, have you never seen me bragging about grilling in January? There are positives and negatives to living anywhere.

Hillwilliam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/16/2012 5:38:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam No kangaroo rats or gopher tortoises are inconvenienced and theres a shitpile oF ca$h to be made. Some parts of Florida have scrub jays and some other critters that restrict or stop the ability to build in certain areas.. one area you cant build in a scrub jay area but they were talking about changing that, if you wanted to pay something like 17 or 18k.. not sure what was decided if anything yet.. and if your lot is on a canal there could be quite a cost to do whatever the city/county wants done along the canal to allow you to build... .. just sayin'.. its sorta funny tho, in some areas if you have a pool or septic tank you need to keep it full of water/liquid or it will pop up out of the ground, apparently.. that was what i read anyway.. [:-] Canals are owned and operated by the regional water management district (government). Property owners pay an additional tax on top of normal property taxes for their maintenence. I was only using canal location beside roads as an example for the above poster to show that not all canals are alongside public roads to assuage his fears for public safety. Pools and septic tanks have to be kept full in S Florida because the water table is so close to the surface there. In some places, during the rainy season, you can literally dig down a foot and hit water. When pouring deep footers you have to have pumps working continuously to keep the hole from filling with water. If you foolishly empty your pool, the hydraulic pressure can pop it out of the ground.

Hillwilliam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/16/2012 5:39:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam A lot of canals go alongside roads but a lot dont. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Most irrigation channels don't have public roads beside them so your last argument is null. Moving the bar, Hillwilliam? I'm absolutely shocked to think you would do such a thing. Oh wait. Nevermind. I'm not moving the bar as I never suggested covering every canal. Pick the ones where it doesn't impact public safety. Is that too difficult for you?

Sanity -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/16/2012 5:42:03 AM)
Actually I am an environmentalist, Im just not an old burned out communal hippy whose head full of ideas that are totally unworkable in society at large In other words, its plainly clear that you cant answer the question, because the best you can do is try to deflect quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Where do the lead smelters go for all the batteries you will need. Your city have any vacant lots? And whose back yard will host the toxic metals mines. You environmentalist you. [8\|]

Hillwilliam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/16/2012 5:52:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic The structure is plainly visible, reflected in the water. That's going to keep all the moisture contained underneath? Just to really mess it up, besides the moisture to turn dust and airborne particulate into a harder to clean crust on the surface of the panel, lets add the electical connections being in a higher humidity environment, and then factor in the birds and bugs that are going to be drawn to the area for water, and the impact they'll have on keeping the panels clean. Now if you want something practical, that works, the latest trend here is installing shade structures over parking lots, with the panels on top of those. No additional land gets used, there is a direct, quality of life, side benefit for people who don't have to get into 140 degrees cars at 5:00 (saves gas as well, since the a/c doesn't have to work as hard), and they aren't hideously ugly. The structure wont be reflected in the water due to the fact that the water is underneath it. As for plainly visible, oil wells are plainly visible, your first topic on this post was whining about unsightly wind farms. I dont think you care about aesthetics as long as it's in someone elses back yard. The humidity underneath will be near 100% which will creat condensation on the underside of the panels. Said condensation will drip back down into the canal reducing loss of irrigation water due to evaporation (another plus). Any dust forming a crust will gather on the under side. I'll let ya in on a deep dark secret. Solar panels don't gather sunlight on the underside. They gather it on the top. That's the part closest to that big yellow ball in the sky. re: Electrical connections in a high humidity environment. We have electrical connections that work in a salt spray environment. I think 95-100% humidity in a fresh water environment is very doable.[8\|] Panels on roofs of parking garages and commercial buildings is a great idea. Right now, payback on investment is about 7 years. We have rain, times of near 100% humidity, dew nearly every morning and dust and everything else here and I havent heard of anyone needing to go clean crud off the top of their panels.

Hillwilliam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/16/2012 5:58:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity You cant answer? quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Where do the lead smelters go for all the batteries you will need. Your city have any vacant lots? And whose back yard will host the toxic metals mines. You environmentalist you. [8\|] Most aren't answering your question as it shows scientific illiteracy. 1. Solar generated electricity goes straight into the grid. No batteries needed. 2. Modern high efficiency batteries don't contain lead. You're welcome[;)]

tj444 -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/16/2012 6:17:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Canals are owned and operated by the regional water management district (government). Property owners pay an additional tax on top of normal property taxes for their maintenence. I was only using canal location beside roads as an example for the above poster to show that not all canals are alongside public roads to assuage his fears for public safety. Pools and septic tanks have to be kept full in S Florida because the water table is so close to the surface there. In some places, during the rainy season, you can literally dig down a foot and hit water. When pouring deep footers you have to have pumps working continuously to keep the hole from filling with water. If you foolishly empty your pool, the hydraulic pressure can pop it out of the ground. Yes, I know its due to the water table there and all that.. I just find it so.. peculiar.. [&:] Imo with the water table that high allowing septic systems seems weird & perhaps not enviromentally sane?, any other place i have lived likely would never allow a septic system under those conditions, but they are considerably drier places.. I spent a little time in FL and quite frankly, I hated it.. its not a place i would actually want to live for any length of time..

Hillwilliam -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/16/2012 8:21:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Canals are owned and operated by the regional water management district (government). Property owners pay an additional tax on top of normal property taxes for their maintenence. I was only using canal location beside roads as an example for the above poster to show that not all canals are alongside public roads to assuage his fears for public safety. Pools and septic tanks have to be kept full in S Florida because the water table is so close to the surface there. In some places, during the rainy season, you can literally dig down a foot and hit water. When pouring deep footers you have to have pumps working continuously to keep the hole from filling with water. If you foolishly empty your pool, the hydraulic pressure can pop it out of the ground. Yes, I know its due to the water table there and all that.. I just find it so.. peculiar.. [&:] Imo with the water table that high allowing septic systems seems weird & perhaps not enviromentally sane?, any other place i have lived likely would never allow a septic system under those conditions, but they are considerably drier places.. I spent a little time in FL and quite frankly, I hated it.. its not a place i would actually want to live for any length of time.. I spent 18 years there. Yes, it is crazy allowing septic systems that close to the water table especially as the oolitic limestone is as porous as a sponge allowing pollutants to move freely. fortunately, the wells that supply miami with water pierce thru to a deeper aquifer or everyone down there would be subjected to nonconsensual scat play.

Musicmystery -> RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible (8/16/2012 8:23:10 AM)
And it's flat. Really, really, really flat. They also lag behind the nation on alternative energy, because the legislature isn't listening to its citizens: http://cleanenergyflorida.org/

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