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Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 5:45:57 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		I suppose this would to apply to petplay
aswell as objectification.
I'd be interested to hear thoughts and
experiences of anyone who's been involved
with this kind of thing.

-ARIES

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 6:28:09 PM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		I think objectification is a pretty common practice, even between vanilla partners,
although perhaps not always something we are aware of doing.
Of course I want him looking at me like he can lick my clothes of in one slurp!

The real breakthrough for me though was self objectification. When I learned
to think of myself as just a hot dripping succulent piece of flesh and nothing more,
I was able to let go of all the silly worries that used to occupy my mind, like are my
legs smooth enough or should I have used red lipstick instead of just lip gloss etc.
It was extremely liberating for me to be able to hide my self and focus only
on the flesh.

As for pet play, I really have no experience with which to make a comment, but
I have been known to howl at the moon a time or two.

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 6:39:00 PM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		Now THERE is a religion I can get behind.

Edit ; I probably shouldn't have said that.

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simul justus et peccator
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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 6:54:17 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: poise


I have been known to howl at the moon a time or two.

Hahaha, I howl at the moon a LOT! Full moons, large crescent moons, etc. He just laughs...

I've been through some pretty rough dehumanization in the past, but unfortunately (for the OP), nothing I care to share at the moment. They were pretty emotionally intense, extremely personal, and some took years to work my way through.

I'm curious why you ask?

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 8:05:22 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		There's always dehumanization in our relationship. I am his it, his thing, to use in whatever way, shape or form he wishes. I am an object he owns and he cares for it the same way he would care to any object that he would like to keep around for a long time.


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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 8:20:32 PM   
BambiBoi


Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline 		I'd like to help but the prompt basically says "tell me what you know. Tell me everything. Start at the beginning."

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 9:00:19 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Nueva:
Just wanted to broaden my understanding
of it, by reading other peoples thoughts and
experiences.
That new introduction title made me think
about it, I didn't really put to much thought
into it until now, but do I objectify a lot...

Poise:
This is the kind of insight I like, the female
perspective. I do love to read what goes on
inside your heads, and yes I get it, your
dripping and succulent...

LW:
I probably relate to your relationship the most,
but nowhere near as... ummm, freakazoidish.

Bambi:
How about you start with just your thoughts.

I know it's a bit of a broad question but I really
am very interested so I hope a lot of you will
share.

-ARIES



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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 9:42:21 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

I suppose this would to apply to petplay
aswell as objectification.
I'd be interested to hear thoughts and
experiences of anyone who's been involved
with this kind of thing.

-ARIES

my thoughts and experience is more on objectification than dehumanization. and they are, you better make fucking sure you set expectations and meanings with the other person before you do it! yes, sadly, i've fucked up on that b4.

to me, they have to know that objectification is not a bad thing. i can't think of a higher and more noble purpose, totally giving one's body to please another. and knowing that it's a win-win two way street.

edit: it's hard to articulate, but my thought is, the person being objectified is not any less of a person than me. in fact, they're more of a person, the one truly giving. i admire and appreciate that giving.


< Message edited by Karmastic -- 8/13/2012 9:44:36 PM >

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 9:48:28 PM   
BambiBoi


Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Bambi:
How about you start with just your thoughts.

I know it's a bit of a broad question but I really
am very interested so I hope a lot of you will
share.

-ARIES



Dehumanization is a taboo because our culture so rarely treats us as sub-human. Effectively, it is a form of humiliation, and shares the inherent danger of damaging the psyche. No one is going to be irreparably damaged by being made into an ottoman for a few hours, but having the idea that they are only valuable as a sex object reinforced with hours of use as a sex object, might do some harm. There's a powerful thread on emotional masochism that covers this topic very well.

I like various methods of dehumanizing. Objectification and animal roleplay come to mind. One of the hottest things I've ever done was kneel and have my mouth used as a bowl for lube. The top would stick her fingers in and scoop some out, or press a toy into my mouth. The taste was terrible, but the idea was wonderful.

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 9:56:29 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
to me, they have to know that objectification is not a bad thing. i can't think of a higher and more noble purpose, totally giving one's body to please another. and knowing that it's a win-win two way street.

OK, I may just be being a pill here.... but seriously dude? I'm working on a philanthropy project right now that, if successful, will end up saving about 100 lives a year. I'd trade all the hot sex in the world this instant to see the project overcome it's obstacles. I'm genuinely curious. Is that really the pinnacle of your priority tree or was that in the limited context of relationships? Even then I can still think of at least a handful of things that seem much more noble of purpose than that. I am genuinely curious if I'm just expanding context or is this a "kinkster" thing?

To the real point of the thread, I have to admit to no personal interest but I'd be fascinated to understand the why's from either side. From my own standpoint, I wanted a slave. By definition that implies "human". More specifically, I want Carol not some generic slave and not a pencil sharpener. Although oddly, the whole reason Carol proposed the collar originally (in the sex-slave format) was to help me learn how to objectify her. She thought I was too stuffy for my own good (and rightly so). I still don't objectify her, but I certainly have learned how to take her and fuck her like an animal and that's... uh... kind of fun :)

I got no real useful input on this thread but I hope it continues. I'm intrigued.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 10:09:34 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

OK, I may just be being a pill here.... but seriously dude? I'm working on a philanthropy project right now that, if successful, will end up saving about 100 lives a year. I'd trade all the hot sex in the world this instant to see the project overcome it's obstacles. I'm genuinely curious. Is that really the pinnacle of your priority tree or was that in the limited context of relationships? Even then I can still think of at least a handful of things that seem much more noble of purpose than that. I am genuinely curious if I'm just expanding context or is this a "kinkster" thing?


yes, i was speaking in the context of a relationship. and while giving that to someone you love still ranks extremely high on my "purpose of life" hierarchy, yes, there's a ton of more noble things like actually saving real lives!

i always appreciate your posts and how you ask questions. class :)

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If my experience level makes you feel superior, that is your problem, not mine.

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/13/2012 10:13:08 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
yes, i was speaking in the context of a relationship. and while giving that to someone you love still ranks extremely high on my "purpose of life" hierarchy, yes, there's a ton of more noble things like actually saving real lives!

"extremely high within the context of relationship" makes a ton of sense to me. Thanks. I was pretty sure it was something like that but I wanted to check my work.


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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/14/2012 1:15:19 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		There is the primal, force play sort of dehumanization where we are left breathless and bloodied.. two animals going at it in an all out death match.. only it's more the Bard death rather than actual death, of course. You get all those lovely chemicals coming into play that just takes you to places you can't get to in a car or an airplane.

Then there is the stillness of being a table. Sometimes I am a table for so long that my thoughts have wound down to nothing simply out of sheer boredom and, lo and behold, I seem to have become a table.. no thoughts, nothing else in my world except to be a table. You can go through so much in terms of introspection getting to that point of stillness.. then the pain will start. The burn in the muscles from the non-movement, the shaking of your arms when you've been a table for as long as you can possibly be a table and, yet you are still a table. Once you get passed that wall of pain, you settle into your tableness and accept it and when it finally ends and you are no longer a table.. when you have to rejoin the world as fully human, you get to keep that stillness in the back of your mind .. always, to use it again when you need some stillness. It's actually pretty awesome and I like being a table but I absolutely adore being a footstool. That's flesh to flesh contact and that rocks.

I guess that might not make sense to anyone who hasn't actually been a table before. ::chuckles:: I guess you'll either have to trust me on this one or.. yanno, go out and be a table and see what it does for ya!

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/14/2012 1:27:54 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Wow! Thanks Bita... That was really lucid and understandable and, in fact, I DO the first of those. It's just I think of humans as animals so no need for me to "dehumanize" to get all bestial.

The second one is also totally understandable and I have been known to command Carol to meditate. I just skipped the table bit :)

Seldom do I ever read a description of a kink and actually expect to "get it" reasonably clearly.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/14/2012 3:18:42 AM   
Darkfeather


Posts: 1142
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline 		If you have ever taken an acting class, there are exercises to get you into the correct mindset. You have to stop being "yourself" and become something else, a tree, a bush, a car. At first it may seem pointless or silly, but from an acting standpoint the hardest thing we as people can do is step outside our own heads and try to become something else. Now those in the kink lifestyle of course, do this regularly (I remember watching a scene play out of a dominant in a pvc wolf suit, "chase" his sub bound and dressed as a bunny... but I digress). Its not about the objectification or dehumanization, those are simply terms. Its about the purpose. The whys, what you are getting out of such things. I mean, our military was persecuted for dehumanization not too long ago at Guantanamo Bay. I think, and hope, most of the kinky stuff is way closer to the acting kind

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/14/2012 3:32:16 AM   
RaspberryLemon


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline 		Pet play doesn't really feel dehumanizing to me, at least not in the sense that we use it ("it" being pet play.) More on that later.

Neither my Master nor I are interested at all in making me out to be/feel like any "less" than I actually am. That includes objectification, humiliation, degradation, and dehumanization. That being said, I can't really give any insight into the topic of dehumanization beyond how we feel about it.

I don't ever wish to feel or be seen as "sub-human" in any sense, and neither has my Master ever felt the desire to make me feel that way or ever seen me that way through his eyes. Part of that has to do with pride and value. To some, pride is considered a crutch and a sin. To my Master, pride (to a healthy and dignified extent, of course) is a virtue. It is very important to him, not only his own pride but mine as well. He admires it and he values it. Which moves me to the next point: value. He values me just as much as I value him, and to him part of that value is me being a full human being. He wants to own a human, a complete and self-actualized human, not a robot or a sex toy or an object. He wanted to own me.

I am his pet, but...still a person. Not anything less than that. Just a pet human. Some of my behaviors and things he has me do might seem dehumanizing or even degrading to some, but to me they are just...me. They are just ways of expressing myself and reinforcing my position of being his. Sitting at his feet, being walked on a leash, petted and praised like a pet dog, eating out of his hands, getting fucked like an animal--these (and other) things never make me feel less human and never make him view me as less human. I feel more "me" when I can do these things to express myself. And thus, more human. That raw, primal animal energy IS human, pure as anything. It feels comfortable and "right." That feeling of belonging. And it's a "warm and fuzzy" thing to me, it lifts me up; I couldn't imagine it as the opposite.

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/14/2012 5:21:47 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Bita- that was enlightening. I'll admit I had never given much thought to the sub side of human furniture - I had always kind of assumed it was something to be endured for the sake of submission. Your description was really interesting, I will think of it in a different way from now on.

Darkfeather - I like your comparison with acting. Not because I think people who are into this are just playing a role, because I do believe that there is something deeper than that. But I have always enjoyed acting, in part because to do it will it is necessary to tuck the real me away somewhere deep inside and change all my thoughts into those of someone/something else. I always found it very exhilarating and a welcome mental break from any worries I might have.

Between those two posts I think I have really learned something today. I always saw objectification as one of those 'whatever floats your boat' kinks, but you've helped me see it in a new light. So thanks, both of you!

I'm actually curious to try it now. Happy days.

Raspberry Lemon - I always enjoy your posts, you always articulate your dynamic so beautifully.

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Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/14/2012 8:16:20 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

When I learned
to think of myself as just a hot dripping succulent piece of flesh and nothing more


Aye Caramba. I love a woman who knows her place.
Damn, that's hawt.
Thanks Poise

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HST

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/14/2012 8:30:34 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

Raspberry Lemon - I always enjoy your posts, you always articulate your dynamic so beautifully.


Yeah, that^

I was just thinking the very same thing.

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RE: Dehumanisation - 8/14/2012 9:34:12 AM   
fetdrvnbiker


Posts: 4
Joined: 7/11/2012
Status: offline 		"Dehumanization also takes the form of undermining one's individuality (i.e., the creative and interesting aspects of his or her personality)" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization)

JeffBC, I think the “stuffy” version of you is trying to use an absolute concrete version of dehumanization, from the stance of the other person no longer being human. The instant a person is not being treated human, in the idealized version of pure equality, they are being subjected to unintentional or deliberate dehumanization.

I like the use of dehumanization to strip away the layers of a personality that interfere with their own enjoyment of the act/s. As Poise said “the silly worries that used to occupy my mind, like are my legs smooth enough or should I have used red lipstick instead of just lip gloss etc.” These types of thoughts reek havoc on a good evening’s fun. When the situation allows, I like to have an inspection/ presentation as we start. Wax strips and tweezers are great foreplay! I had gotten to the point of aftercare/pillow talk and was asked if I approved how they looked. In the moment I squashed it with an answer of, how would we have done all that if I didn’t approve of how you looked (in the back of my mind “FAIL” and my outward facial expression was really directed inward) .

Creating an environment in which the sub/slave can clear their mind and have focus on the task at hand is one of a dominant’s greater challenges. I really question if it can be done without some form of dehumanization. Even if it is the dominant dehumanizing themselves, to allow a mindset that will push boundaries.

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