My Dilemma

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subgtrplayer -> My Dilemma (8/17/2012 11:01:29 PM)
My Dear Friends - I'd like some advice from the only people (you all) who might reasonably be able to understand my problem. I just celebrated my 28th anniversary. My wife is awesome in every way, but our sex life is dead, and has been for a long time. She has tried to understand what it means that I am submissive, but she just doesn't get it. I'm afraid that when I explained it to her, it really freaked her out and turned her off, although she never acted like it did. Furthermore, she's not really interested in vanilla sex either. Our marriage has largely been about everyday things, raising kids, and making a household work for a long time now. And we are both very proud of what we have accomplished in those areas. I honestly think that I could have lived with a "vanilla sex only" compromise, but our life together has been difficult on that front. Since we had kids, she's not about sex at all, vanilla or otherwise. We've done therapy, doctors, etc., and there has been no change at all. On the other hand, in every other way, she is absolutely my soul mate. We are best friends, crack each other up, and have raised two great kids, the youngest of whom is two years away from leaving the house. Here is the question: obviously, as you all know, we are who we are. She is not very sexual or affectionate, but has many great qualities. I'm a submissive, and that's who I am. Of course, I'm an unfulfilled one, and largely, I'm a sexually frustrated human being in general. My wife had a fucked up childhood, and doesn't express affection verbally or physically in any meaningful way, although she does in other ways, like doing the hell out of my laundry and folding it up for me, doing little things for me.....that's how she expresses love. She sucks at affection. I've stuck around because of the kids, and because I love her, and because, on balance, everything else is so good. So many of you are in, or have had fulfilling BDSM relationships. When my youngest leaves, I would still arguably be young enough at 57 to leave my wife and look for submissive bliss in a new relationship. But I would be leaving everything I have here: 30 years of history, the laughs, the love, the family. My career is awesome, too. I'm not an Adonis anymore, but I think I have a realistic possibility of attracting someone nice. I'm nice, intelligent, funny, a published author, and I've won a couple of those golden statuettes that you see people get on those yearly TV shows with the red carpets. So, please tell me: how great is it out there? The few times in my life that I had a domme friend and we spent time together, it was the greatest physical/sexual/psychic connection in my life. But the guilt of lying and sneaking around and the knowledge that by acting outside of my marriage I was being someone I really didn't want to be was enough to make me be the one to end it, and after a short time, as well. It seems like all of the other relationship stuff would have to work too, right? And I already have that! But it's REALLY hard to live without intimacy, and as a sub, it's been a nightmare to deaden that part of myself. Of course, there's porn and masturbation. And that has helped a lot all these years. But I feel that I've missed so much as well. What do those of you who have been brave enough to be yourselves think? I'd be really rolling the dice. With my whole life. And I could come up snake eyes. I need to know if this lifestyle is as amazing in the context of a long term relationship (especially for someone my age) as I'm thinking it could be.

BambiBoi -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 12:11:38 AM)
Finding a soul mate twice in one life is a long shot. For some reason even bright people like you forget that lasting BDSM relationships are built on the same frame as vanilla ones. It's rough out there. Even if you find a unicorn dominant soulmate that is not married, crazy, or temporary, you'll still need to invest time to rebuild what you had. You might leave a thirty-year-relationship shaped hole in your heart and will be unable to fill it after 3 dates with the new one. And for what? So she'll spank you? Buy a fleshlight. Talk to the amazing wife you have and explain you want her to join you with a pro domme. Maybe she's cool with you taking a lover. If gender jealousy is an issue, how homoflexible are you? Don't throw away a self proclaimed magical 30 years when there are so many solutions to a very identifiable problem. Not kidding about that fleshlight... If I bought one I wouldn't come out of my room for a solid month.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 12:22:22 AM)
Oh man, that's rough and I don't know what to tell you. On one hand, I couldn't live without intimacy of some type. I could probably live without sex but it would be hard. That's a lot of marriage to throw away if you are happy in all other respects. Does your wife know you've reached this point? Have you sat down with her in a non-confrontational way and told her how miserable it's making you? If I were considering ending my marriage over this, I'd want to try everything else first. Even if that got to the point of saying 'I can't go without having this need fulfilled anymore, if you no longer want sex I will need to go to someone else, and we can either end the relationship or come to an agreement about an open relationship.' Also please don't lose sight of the fact that D/s relationships are just relationships. They have the same problems as any vanilla relationship. People still argue and go through rough times and such. There are times when sex and kink takes a back seat. Living it is not the same as the occasional clandestine encounter because there is real life to deal with in between times. I know you know this, but when we are miserable it's easy to build up a fantasy life in our head that reality can't match. Lastly, remember that male subs (At least round here) tend to greatly outnumber female dommes. I hate to say it, but it seems there are a lot of people looking and not finding. Do you read savage love at all? This reminds me of a savage love letter.

OttersSwim -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 5:42:02 AM)
I was married for 17 years in a marriage that (for about the last 12) had love, but not in-love. Sex ended, we were compatible life mates, but nothing else. I was responsible for that. And I realized, for getting out of it into what I needed in my life. It was hard. It was painful, even though the break was amicable. I am now on the other side of that difficult time, re-married to a wonderful Lady whom I serve. You are responsible for your decisions and your future. What do you want, and what are you willing to do in order to get there? Clearly, your kids must be given consideration and priority in your life. This person whom you married as well. If you both decide you cannot be together anymore, then remember it is better to be kind than right. Go about your separation with as much sanity, kindness, and generosity of spirit as you can muster. Good luck to you, it is a difficult path, but there are always options in life.

LadyConstanze -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 6:06:42 AM)
Actually, you know it could be a hormonal problem on her side, after children it happens to a lot of women that they lose interest in sex, usually women are a bit too intimidated to talk to their doctors about it. Also a side effect of hypothyroidism is that you lose interest in sex, the majority of people suffering from it are female and aren't even aware of it, and yes, it often kicks in when hormonal changes took place in the body (puberty, pregnancy, menopause) when not treated it gets worse. Wouldn't it be fair to check out if there is actually a medical problem before you decide to end the marriage?

poise -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 6:13:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subgtrplayer So, please tell me: how great is it out there? It seems like all of the other relationship stuff would have to work too, right? And I already have that! I need to know if this lifestyle is as amazing in the context of a long term relationship (especially for someone my age) as I'm thinking it could be. The grass is always greenest where you water it.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 6:27:26 AM)
Although I commend you for thinking about your children before making any divorce moves, the truth is children survive divorce fairly well, especially if the parents make that a priority. How do you think your kids are faring seeing their parents interact with no affection or intimacy? Frankly, you have used them as an excuse long enough. You know, I have often heard of these sexless marriages, and it makes me want to scream. So great, your wife doesn't seem to like sex, so great, she has things in her past she clearly should have overcome years ago, but has not. She won't overcome them b/c she doesn't want to. Why should she? YOU have enabled her all these years by remaining married to your best friend. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great to be married to your best friend, but most of us need sex and intimacy too. And though I could do w/o the sex if I had to, I would not do well w/o great lashings of physical affection. Humans, all humans, need that to thrive. Babies who do not get physical contact fail to thrive. That's actually what they call it. Sit down and have a long talk with the Mrs, after you've made plans not to be interrupted by the kids. Explain that you love her but you're done enabler her. That you need sex and affection too, that needing those things is NORMAL. I wouldn't hold out much for this conversation, 28 years is a long time to be stuck in a pattern. But do get yourself to a therapist to figure out why you, yes you, stuck with it so long. It really does take two to tango.

DarkSteven -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 6:46:48 AM)
This isn't what you want to hear, but stick with what you have. You're 55. You've managed to keep a marriage going through the stresses, through the kids, through it all. The sex part is about to become less important. So you're basically asking about throwing away 30 years of marriage for a few years of sex. And, forgive me for mentioning it, but the kids will side with your mother from what you've written, and while they won't write you out of their lives, you will strain the relationships with them. There are three things you want: sex, physical touching and intimacy, and being Dommed. Let's address them: The sex life is dead. That happens after kids, but normally rebounds after a few years. In her case, evidently it didn't. I'm not sure why - do you have any ideas? The physical touching and intimacy is gone. To me, that's a huge red flag. You seem to think that it's due to childhood trauma. I suspect that it's something else altogether. Women sometimes withhold sex if they feel uncomfortable in a relationship. In your case, I wonder if it's something else. Does she suspect you've gone to Dommes? Did she quit about the same time you shared your sub nature with her? Did she gain or lose a lot of weight and feel she's unattractive to you now? The Domming part. I wish I could be hopeful about that, but I'm not. She's not about to Top you, which is what you want, she may not give permission for you to seek outside the marriage, and I would sure as hell advise against a breakup. My thought is that you should reach out to her. 1. Pull surprises. When you come home from work, bring her some tuna fish sandwiches and wine. Spread out a blanket in the back yard and have an impromptu picnic with her, paper plates and all. Occasional flowers. Take her out dancing. 2. Offer her stuff, such as "Sweetie, is there anything I could do for you that would brighten your day?" or "Am I fulfilling you?" Sneakily serve her submissively without using the words. Basically, woo her. I'm of the mind that women become affectionate when they feel loving and loved (kinda like pet cats). I think that she knows more than you think she does. I suspect that she knows she's not meeting your needs, and has withdrawn as a result. Before you write it all off, fight like hell to save the marriage. And switch doctors and have her checked for depression and hormone levels.

GreedyTop -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 7:07:40 AM)
brilliant post, Steven!

yourdarkdesire -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 7:08:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Actually, you know it could be a hormonal problem on her side, after children it happens to a lot of women that they lose interest in sex, usually women are a bit too intimidated to talk to their doctors about it. Also a side effect of hypothyroidism is that you lose interest in sex, the majority of people suffering from it are female and aren't even aware of it, and yes, it often kicks in when hormonal changes took place in the body (puberty, pregnancy, menopause) when not treated it gets worse. Wouldn't it be fair to check out if there is actually a medical problem before you decide to end the marriage? Is she by any chance taking medication to treat depression? The majority of anti-depressants have loss ofvsex drive as an unfortunate side effect.

LadyConstanze -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 7:46:16 AM)
Good point, or it could be an untreated underlying depression, which also tends to mess up your libido. I would check out all the medical options first before throwing away 28 years.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 8:47:26 AM)
Thank you, Steven.

Baroana -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 9:34:53 AM)
I agree with what's been said, and I also would refer you to Dan Savage's column. I tend to agree with his position that in cases where a spouse truly is unreasonably withholding sex, you have the right to go get your sex on outside the marriage.

searching4mysir -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 10:42:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana I agree with what's been said, and I also would refer you to Dan Savage's column. I tend to agree with his position that in cases where a spouse truly is unreasonably withholding sex, you have the right to go get your sex on outside the marriage. So the words "for better or worse" and "forsaking all others" means nothing?

LadyPact -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 10:46:12 AM)
Dan Savage is one of the worst recommendations going. His "cheat and it's ok" message drives Me nuts. OP, the best advice that you are going to get around here is what Dark Steven just told you. If you can't have both, you need to pick a priority. My husband and I don't engage in kink together. We do that with other people and even have a poly home. If that stopped tomorrow, I'd still stay with the person that I consider My soul mate until the day I died. I think Steven had good questions about when the sex stopped. Did you have her knowledge and permission when you went off to see that Domme? If she believed you were unfaithful, that could have been a HUGE contributing factor. She may have felt like she wasn't 'good enough' just being vanilla when it was really kink that you wanted. That's a big deal to a woman. The saying goes that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. That is exactly what you are looking at. A male of 57 isn't going to have a huge kink dating pool. You say you want to serve, but you haven't really served in a relationship and that's going to be a tough obstacle at your age. How long has it been since you and your wife went to the doc about this issue? Try again. I think it would be very beneficial for you to read some of Otters' past posts. I believe it would be an asset for you to know the details of how Otters managed to get from there to here with honor and dignity.

DarkSteven -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 10:51:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana I agree with what's been said, and I also would refer you to Dan Savage's column. I tend to agree with his position that in cases where a spouse truly is unreasonably withholding sex, you have the right to go get your sex on outside the marriage. If a spouse is unreasonably withholding sex, you have the right to ask what the hell is going on as a first step, and try to resolve it. Second step is to discuss with them the idea of adding in an additional outlet. Third step is either poly or separation/divorce. If Savage is advocating clandestine affairs for a marriage that's in trouble, he's a fool.

Baroana -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 10:52:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana I agree with what's been said, and I also would refer you to Dan Savage's column. I tend to agree with his position that in cases where a spouse truly is unreasonably withholding sex, you have the right to go get your sex on outside the marriage. If a spouse is unreasonably withholding sex, you have the right to ask what the hell is going on as a first step, and try to resolve it. Second step is to discuss with them the idea of adding in an additional outlet. Third step is either poly or separation/divorce. If Savage is advocating clandestine affairs for a marriage that's in trouble, he's a fool. Every situation is different. Assuming that proper communication has been tried, I suppose that any given marriage will be best served by its own individual solution.

Baroana -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 10:55:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: searching4mysir quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana I agree with what's been said, and I also would refer you to Dan Savage's column. I tend to agree with his position that in cases where a spouse truly is unreasonably withholding sex, you have the right to go get your sex on outside the marriage. So the words "for better or worse" and "forsaking all others" means nothing? Apparently so, or our courts would not be clogged with divorce cases. Sometimes, just sometimes, there are ways to avoid divorce and/or misery that may not exactly be consistent with the rules of being a saint.

subgtrplayer -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 10:57:26 AM)
Thank you all for your replies. Steven, I've done all of the things you've mentioned. I'm the communicator in the relationship. I'm always trying to find out what she wants, what I can do for her, and conversely I've always been pretty open about where I've been in the relationship and what I want. She is NEVER going to be the initiator about what is going on in her head about anything, and for anything to happen in our relationship, I have to pull the wagon down the road. Also, we've tried all of that stuff. I cook, I clean, I do flowers, all of that stuff. She's been a good sport about trying out the occasional kink scenario, and other stuff. But as you all know, when the heart isn't in it.............. And she has always been depressed. Sometimes medicated, sometimes not. Sometimes in therapy, sometimes not. She has a horrible family, and her mother is a poster child for borderline personality (narcissism). As much as I've tried to give her some backup and help with her issues, I've learned that one person can't make another person happy and well adjusted. I've also learned that being a mess doesn't necessarily mean that someone can't be a great partner in life, with some bumps in the road. And I'm pretty proud that I've been a good husband for her, that I've helped her self esteem as much as I possibly could. Believe me, you have no idea what a witch her mother is, and how awful and hurtful the things her mother says to her STILL on a weekly basis. 20 years ago, the lack of physical affection and the inability to express myself as a sub were BIG DEALS. Now I know she loves me. I just got through a huge medical issue, a life and death issue, and she was RIGHT THERE for me in so many ways. I know that she loves me. Sometimes that still isn't enough, though. With us about to be empty nesters, and financial issues not on the front burner, and us selling the house now anyway and downsizing in the next couple of years, I have this one opportunity coming up to either make this change in my life or commit to the life I've put together. And like Steven said, by the time I'm 65, the sex probably won't be there anymore anyway, will it? So I'll probably be left with what I have now already. BUT WHAT IF I COULD HAVE TEN AMAZING YEARS?

LadyConstanze -> RE: My Dilemma (8/18/2012 10:57:57 AM)
Thank you, I've been foaming about the hype of Dan Savage, I think he's for the most part full of shit. His whole popularity is based upon telling people what they want to hear, i.e. it's OK to cheat... To the OP, you know if you really tried everything, including what Steven suggested, instead of just walking away and HOPING that you find what you are looking for (and if you think it will be easy, check the ratio of men to women on this site), why not come to an arrangement with your wife, in case she is absolutely not interested in you sexually, she might give you permission to have a BDSM relationship, you could see dommes then (I'd stick with pros to avoid confusion in that case), you'd still have your best mate and soul mate but you would also get your kicks, that would be a win win...

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