RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle

RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (Full Version)

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JanahX -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 3:07:03 AM)
Im sorry ? - I dont see anywhere in her post where she states that "someone you choose to share your life with doesnt make you feel special." Care to elaborate? quote: ORIGINAL: Timonat quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I agree with most of the others. I don't see it as a gift. I see it as a choice and if you find someone to share it with, you are lucky. Gift of submission? Nah, no one is that special. It is a pity that someone you choose to share your life with doesn't make you feel special

OlBastard -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 3:31:02 AM)
For me, it was always pretty much, "Submit or GTFO". It's really that simple. Think about it, though... there's no "gifting" involved. In fact, the whole [submission\|\|dominance] as a gift schtick is... well, it's no different than telling your partner that they are extremely fortunate to have found you. That's well and good, of course, if it's part of your dynamic; otherwise, it comes off as conceited. I don't care who you are, your station in life or what title you've bestowed upon yourself... conceitedness is horribly ugly.

DaddySatyr -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 3:37:06 AM)
For me, it becomes as simple as definition. A gift is something given without expectation of return; nothing is "owed" back. If a lady submits to me and I don't give her my dominance, in return, how long is that situation going to last? How many posts have we seen about "How can I introduce my partner to this"? When a lady submits to me, she expects dominance. It's not a gift. It's a negotiation position. Peace and comfort, Michael

Whenready -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 3:54:23 AM)
I don't get the "dreaded" bit of the gift of submission. This might get me some stick, but I didn't think castlerealm was that bad either. Sure the language was a bit flowery at times, but there were some good ideas there too: what came through to me reading it was respect, and I see nothing bad in that. If a girl sees her submission to me as her gift to me, who's to say its any "better" or "worse" than any other choice of words, so long as it works for us?

crazyml -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 3:57:59 AM)
Yup. I think the term is a trite one, in part because for a functioning relationship the "gift" will be reciprocated. The last time a potential sub started whittering on about how her submission is a "Gift" I ended up saying "Listen peaches, my dominance is a gift too, so when we do the exchange we'll be quits and there'll be no need to bore me stupid with your "gift" nonsense.

Greta75 -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:13:13 AM)
I think it's a gift because we are lowering ourselves towards somebody to be humiliated, and not just anybody. Dominating someone, you can do that to anybody in any situation, even at work, you can dominate anybody if you wanted to. It doesn't really take alot to dominate. Hell, many bosses at work do it all the time.

JanahX -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:20:24 AM)
Who is "we"? I dont lower myself to be humiliated. Thats not my deal at all - quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I think it's a gift because we are lowering ourselves towards somebody to be humiliated, and not just anybody. Dominating someone, you can do that to anybody in any situation, even at work, you can dominate anybody if you wanted to. It doesn't really take alot to dominate. Hell, many bosses at work do it all the time.

Greta75 -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:22:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX Who is "we"? I dont lower myself to be humiliated. Thats not my deal at all - You mean as a sub, you are your dom's equal?

JanahX -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:23:44 AM)
Thats not what I said - I said I dont lower myself to be humiliated. My Dom does not humiliate me. And yes I am my Doms equal - because without me - he is not a Dom, and without him I am not a sub. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX Who is "we"? I dont lower myself to be humiliated. Thats not my deal at all - You mean as a sub, you are your dom's equal?

Greta75 -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:26:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX Thats not what I said - I said I dont lower myself to be humiliated. My Dom does not humiliate me. And yes I am my Doms equal - because without me - he is not a Dom, and without him I am not a sub. I always see the dom as the top, and the sub as the bottom, but never equals. I guess for me, everything is humiliation, even the simple act of kneeling. I would not kneel to a vanilla man because I see him as my equal, but I will kneel to a dom I choose.

JanahX -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:34:19 AM)
Thats the beauty of individual minds - we all have our own ideas of what constitutes the dynamics of what goes on in our relationships. You see, I dont kneel - ever. We're not into that sort of thing. Theres a lot of things we dont do - but theres things that we do - do that many people wouldnt do. Humiliation isnt in our agenda, because I think Id have to kill him. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX Thats not what I said - I said I dont lower myself to be humiliated. My Dom does not humiliate me. And yes I am my Doms equal - because without me - he is not a Dom, and without him I am not a sub. I always see the dom as the top, and the sub as the bottom, but never equals. I guess for me, everything is humiliation, even the simple act of kneeling. I would not kneel to a vanilla man because I see him as my equal, but I will kneel to a dom I choose.

Greta75 -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:37:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX Thats the beauty of individual minds - we all have our own ideas of what constitutes the dynamics of what goes on in our relationships. You see, I dont kneel - ever. We're not into that sort of thing. Theres a lot of things we dont do - but theres things that we do - do that many people wouldnt do. Humiliation isnt in our agenda, because I think Id have to kill him. This is quite rare, it's heartening to know that you found your unique other half that just blends with what you are into.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:43:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss Why is this a bad phrase? Really? On the "A mature submissive" thread it came up, and people are offended. I never have been. Here's my response: quote: I never did understand why people don't like the term "gift of submission"... It is a gift I give someone... just like they gift me their dominance. It's a reciprocal thing. I like the idea that my submitting is seen as a choice, as something I choose to hand over. I'm damn sure no one is going to wrest it from me without a gun involved - and even then I'm gonna be looking for a way out of that mess! I'm damn sure there are people who don't dominate the fricking world and that it is a special thing shared only amongst a certain few. I choose to give my time, energy, money to certain causes, people, beliefs. My time, energy, and money have worth. To me this is a gift. What gives, peeps? sunshine I seriously dislike the phrase because almost every guy with a laundry list of what he wants me to do to him (for my pleasure of course, I just need to work my way through his list) tells me that he does want to give me "the gift of his submission". quote: I choose to give my time, energy, money to certain causes, people, beliefs. My time, energy, and money have worth. To me this is a gift. What gives, peeps? It's a gift if there are no strings attached, you get nothing back. If it is submission you get dominance back, I don't see dominance as a gift, it's a sexual preference like submission, you share it with somebody but "gift" just smacks too much of hearts, ribbons, cutesey little flowers, so personally I don't really like the term, it seems pretentious. The time, energy and money for a charity or where you get nothing back, that's a real gift, relationships aren't charity causes, people tend to be in relationships because it fulfills a need in themselves and makes them happy.

Timonat -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:49:40 AM)
Gift of submission? Nah, no one is that special. Meaning, she herself does not feel, or is not made feel, to be special. which is a pity. The fundamentals of love is for someone to make you feel valued (as in the mature submissive thread all the people said - they want to be judged by their qualities, not their age - i.e, their quaities are special, jesus!) Who in their right mind would be in loving relationship with someone who made them feel like shit?? OK, counter question, who of you would like if you went to your Dom, and and asked if I am in any way special to you, and hear this reply. "No, you are just like any other person on the street to me, if you died tomorrow I could just replace you with the next person I bump into on the street. Am I seriously here "defending" that being made to feel valued/special is not just just desirable but a fundamental aspect of love??

JanahX -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:50:55 AM)
Is it? And how did you come across this information? Source? quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 This is quite rare, it's heartening to know that you found your unique other half that just blends with what you are into.

Greta75 -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:51:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX Is it? And how did you come across this information? Source? Solely by I have never met or spoken to a dom that does not expect the basic kneeling.

Timonat -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:53:01 AM)
Right! What is hot without cold, Ying without Yang, light without dark? One gives the other meaning and purpose.

Greta75 -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:56:27 AM)
quote: OK, counter question, who of you would like if you went to your Dom, and and asked if I am in any way special to you, and hear this reply. "No, you are just like any other person on the street to me, if you died tomorrow I could just replace you with the next person I bump into on the street. Am I seriously here "defending" that being made to feel valued/special is not just just desirable but a fundamental aspect of love?? That's the romantic part of things, but there are some doms who don't believe in love and romance when having a sub. That's when the "you're easily replaceable" aspect of it comes into play. I see this as part of the humiliation kink too, to treat you as a worthless being. Don't think there is any right or wrong way, just the right match. I think the whole "gift of submission" thing is also a romantic thing. And those into romance will love it, those who puke at romance mix with bdsm will hate it.

JanahX -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:58:59 AM)
I see - well I suppose thats because thats what you were searching for. I myself, never looked for people like that - so I havent come across all that many. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX Is it? And how did you come across this information? Source? Solely by I have never met or spoken to a dom that does not expect the basic kneeling.

Timonat -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 5:03:41 AM)
Yes I agree completely. I for example, want the romance part aswell, as I seek substance and balance as I believe that is what it takes to make a long term relationship both worthwhile and possible. Just the kink alone, is not enough for me. That is my interpretation and what I want, and I should not be made fun of because of it.

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