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PeonForHer -> RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle (8/21/2012 4:21:33 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
PeonForHer:
If I give a birthday present to my nephew, I know for sure that I'm doing it partly to see his little face light up (awww, etc.) When I donate to my fave charity, I get an easing of conscience and an overall feeling of well-being at having done something good. There are some who maintain that all so-called 'generosity' is actually selfishness in disguise. Me, I think that line's bollocks, personally: it's nearly always some combination of various levels of altruism and selfishness. You don't get to be black or white about this wider selfishness/altruism debate in any other context; I don't see why D/s is somehow an exception.
quote:
gift [gift] Show IPA
noun
1.
something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.
2.
the act of giving.
3.
something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned: Those extra points he got in the game were a total gift.
quote:
When you give a birthday present to your nephew, you are not expecting payment or effort in return. You are hoping that his reaction will fall in line with what you where expecting, so that you can derive the expected satisfaction from the occasion, but if he doesn't react the way you had anticipated or hoped, you don't suddenly snatch the gift back out of his hands and take it back.
He gets to keep the gift, regardless of whether or not he makes you feel satisfied about giving it.
Same thing with the charity, or with giving to a homeless person.
If you gift a bum on the street 5 buck because he said he was hungry, and he instead of thanking you tells you yours a fucking retarded asshole and buys crack instead, you don't take back the $5.
In neither of these situations there is an unwritten contract of "I will provide you with X, as long as you provide me with Y" like there is in a D/s relationship. Instead, the gift giving is "I gift you with X because I anticipate deriving satisfaction from doing so".
That difference is why people in any type of relationship who don't feel their partner is giving them the Y that was demanded in return for the X so often end up screaming at each other -they feel cheated because they don't think they received what was owed to them- and why sane people don't end up screaming at their nephews when his reaction to a birthday present wasn't what they expected.
Ishtarrrrr ;-)
Thank you for reading! And well done for having a decent go at picking through what I said without *once* mentioning the ****ing 'Castle Realm' and how you 'can't get past it'.
OK, I'll let you off, for the moment, for putting your preferred definitions of 'gift' in bold while leaving un-bolded my own definition. I'm suspicious, but no more. Yet. But I shall be watching you carefully, oh yes.
It's intriguing, this distinction you make between an unwritten (perhaps semi-conscious?) contract between two partners and that, for instance, between an uncle and his nephew. You may or may not know that a lot of ink has been spent on just that distinction, regards a) adults and children and, especially more recently b) humans and non-human nature. (Subject for another thread, though. And one that I won't be starting unless someone frigging pays me for it.)
Suffice to say that, in general, there's little more of a contract (unwritten, semiconscious, etc.) between me and my (little shit of a) nephew than there would be between me and an adult partner. I get a good feeling in giving my nephew presents in the same way that I get a good feeling from rubbing my own foot. Slightly frown-inducing simile, I know, but what I'm trying to say is that he's a part of me - I just have to look after him.
In the same way, a partner becomes a part of me. (Hence the similarity of the two words - did you see that?) In essence I'm no more going to shout and scream at a partner than I would at my nephew. Sure, I would have done, once, but that was when I tended to feel like a hurt little boy than I do now. I don't get into relationships, these days, where she doesn't feel like a part of me and I don't feel like a part of her.
When I say (as I just might - and more so from now on, having convinced myself of my own argument), 'Mistress X, I gift you my submission', I shall wait patiently until she stops laughing and taking the piss out of me. (Which she will do, or she wouldn't be with me in the first place. I can't stand women who can't take the piss out of me and avoid them like the plague.) But then I will explain that by 'gift', I mean giving something that has no strings other than that which always comes with power - responsibility. It *will* cost me a lot to give what I'm giving and she'll be aware of that. It will cost her a lot to take it on, too - and I will be aware of that. She will love me, and I will love her, and our (hopefully) weird, peculiar - and frequently quite silly - dominant/submissive relationship will be a part of that.
PS:
Did I mention frigging 'flowers' in all of that? I believe that I did not. I have my own conception of 'love', too; so please, anyone, don't bring up the sodding 'CastleRealm' in relation to it. My idea of love has far too much ordinary salt, vinegar, embarrassing farts and chumminess in it to be comparable.
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