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What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 6:41:14 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Anders Behring Breivik the mass killer of 77 souls received the maximum sentence of….21 years.

If ever there was a justification for the death penalty this was it. I have for sometime been against the death penalty in the US but only because I feel it was not being administered uniformly and was lacking stringent regulation for it use. But…in this type of case there is no doubt as to guilt and sanity. This man is purely evil and has forfeited his right to life…in my opinion.

I do understand he may be incarcerated indefinitely if they determine he is still a danger but can you imagine being the father or mother of a child brutally murdered and meeting this man in a few years free on the street. If I met him I would kill the bastard…I wonder how many years the Norwegian justice system would give me?

I read where some of the gentle people who lost children and loved ones were satisfied with the verdict and sentence…Again they are Saints and if they were Christians they would be closer to God then I could ever be.

Butch

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 6:42:20 AM   
Bishop1984


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Status: offline 		In answer to your question about how many years you'd get...

Murphy's Law says about 21. :)

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 6:45:43 AM   
GreedyTop


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From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Butch, while I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, I think you should take into account the differences in the societies in which we, as Americans, live/work/have grown up in, and the same factors for Norway.

Worlds apart.


Aswad can correct me if I am wrong.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 6:46:49 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Except he will never leave prison, other than in a pine box.   They have all the exceptions in law which assure he wont get out.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 6:49:13 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

I think you should take into account the differences in the societies in which we, as Americans, live/work/have grown up in, and the same factors for Norway.

Worlds apart.


I'm not so sure of that GreedyTop...after all this society produced this killer...but i guess you are correct at least when it comes to punishment.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 6:56:44 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		What they don't tell you is that the sentence will be served in an unheated cell in Nordkapp.

ETA, Aswad, don't shoot me for spelling and such, I don't have one of those keyboards with all your funky-assed diacritical marks

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 8/24/2012 7:03:08 AM >

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 7:35:47 AM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I think you should take into account the differences in the societies in which we, as Americans, live/work/have grown up in, and the same factors for Norway.

Worlds apart.


I'm not so sure of that GreedyTop...after all this society produced this killer...but i guess you are correct at least when it comes to punishment.

Butch


That's what I meant. Sorry, should have been more clear. I don't think there is ANY society, ANYWHERE in the world, that doesn't produce killers.


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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 7:44:26 AM   
calamitysandra


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Status: offline 		The Norwegian justice system is focussed on re-socialisation instead of retribution. At least as far as I understand. But I am pretty sure, that Aswad will be along shortly.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 8:48:10 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

re-socialisation instead of retribution


I do hope you don't believe this person deserves the right to join society again? I am not for retribution so much as protection for innocents in the future. We have a right to be protected from people like him…Myself I think a death penalty would protect you and I just fine.

Who knows how many innocent he may kill in the future…either in prison or out.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 9:08:18 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I will wait on al-Aswad, but believe me 21 years is not the final, their laws have exceptions for him and he will rot in that jail in his three cells by himself till the end of time.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 9:21:39 AM   
pyschosubmission


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Status: offline 		Norway has a remarkably different justice system from the UK and the USA. One which I believe is far more civilised and from the statistics works a great deal better than both the UK's and America's.

It's actually set up to be orientated towards rehabilitation, rather than purely punishment. So yes Mr Breivik, has been sentenced to 21 years, but as far as I can remember the Norwegians also have exceptions in their justice system. One being that those convicted can remain in prison longer than their original sentence, if they are still a danger to society.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 9:30:53 AM   
calamitysandra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

re-socialisation instead of retribution


I do hope you don't believe this person deserves the right to join society again? I am not for retribution so much as protection for innocents in the future. We have a right to be protected from people like him…Myself I think a death penalty would protect you and I just fine.

Who knows how many innocent he may kill in the future…either in prison or out.

Butch



No, I do not believe that Breivik should be allowed to re-enter society. But as far as I know, there are provisions in Norwegian law that will prevent that from happening.

But for Norway to change the general workings and purposes of their justice system because of Breivik. would be giving him too much power, even a kind of victory, in that he succeeded in changing society.



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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 10:06:05 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Simply put.

No one in Europe has the death penalty anymore. Mostly due to past injustices of innocent people dying. In many ways that would be a cop out for some of our notorious killers anyway. I am sure Brevik wont be looking forward to a lifetime in jail. The majority view the death penalty as barbaric, does that make Europeans more forgiving or more enlightened.

For what its worth, I am for the death penalty in certain cases provided there is a 100% certainty of having the right guy, such as in this case.

I always wonder about God fearing persons agreeing with the death penalty when the Bible says "Thou shalt not kill" each to their own though.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 10:07:12 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra


But for Norway to change the general workings and purposes of their justice system because of Breivik. would be giving him too much power, even a kind of victory, in that he succeeded in changing society.





Spot on Sandra.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 10:10:41 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Polite.. the fundies also spout the OT creedo.. "eye for an eye"


in cases like this one, I admit that I agree... while his death in NO WAY could even come close to that Biblical admonition, at least the fuckwad would never again be a spectre of horiffic death to any other folks.

ETA: but I am an American that believes in gun rights, pro-life, smaller Gov't, , taxing the ultra-wealthy, and so on.

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 8/24/2012 10:12:21 AM >

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 10:19:23 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		I would suggest letting him fester in a dark damp jail, that is less merciful than letting him go meet his maker in my view Greedy.


Surely "an eye for an eye" and "thou shalt not kill" contradict ?

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 10:23:31 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I would suggest letting him fester in a dark damp jail, that is less merciful than letting him go meet his maker in my view Greedy.


Surely "an eye for an eye" and "thou shalt not kill" contradict ?


I may be nitpicking Polite but the actual commandment in Hebrew is "Thou shalt not commit murder."
It was changed to kill for convenience.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:09:13 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

I believe is far more civilised and from the statistics works a great deal better than both the UK's and America's.


So... you believe this man should be allowed back into , as you say, civilized society in 21 years?

Do you really think that a mind like his can be guaranteed to be changed and rendered non-violent by being psychoanalyzed with gobbledygook group secessions?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:13:42 AM   
calamitysandra


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Status: offline 		Who on this thread has advocated that Breivik should be released into society in 21 years? Nobody.

And Psycho is right, statistics speak to the efficiency of the Norwegian system.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:21:47 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

But for Norway to change the general workings and purposes of their justice system because of Breivik. would be giving him too much power, even a kind of victory, in that he succeeded in changing society.


I really do not want to turn this thread into a for or against death penalty argument. I would be satisfied with life in prison as well as death.

The purpose of my thread is, the seeming to me, ridiculous penalty for the taking of 77 lives and how this would affect the relatives of the victims in 21 years….IF… he is a good boy and manages to be a Boy Scout and get out and walk the same streets as the relatives and friends… how would they feel.

At the very least I should think a life sentence should be made a possibility in their system.


Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to calamitysandra)
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