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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:24:37 AM

mnottertail

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it is.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:26:31 AM

kdsub

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These statistics you speak of come with successes and failures. Would you bet your life and those of your love ones on a statistic of averages in his case?

Butch

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:28:43 AM

kdsub

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I guess it is but only if he cannot fool a psychologist.

Butch

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:31:12 AM

LadyHibiscus

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I am not an advocate of the death penalty, and since the state I live in has NEVER had it, it just doesn't cross my mind as an option for civilized people.

That said, I hope that someone decides that it's not possible for that man to be "rehabilitated" enough to be out in the world without supervision.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:33:54 AM

pyschosubmission

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I believe is far more civilised and from the statistics works a great deal better than both the UK's and America's.

So... you believe this man should be allowed back into , as you say, civilized society in 21 years?

Do you really think that a mind like his can be guaranteed to be changed and rendered non-violent by being psychoanalyzed with gobbledygook group secessions?

Butch

Yes.

and again yes.

As I mentioned previously after the 21 years that he has been sentenced to, he will be judged as to whether he is a danger to society or not. If deemed dangerous, then in prison he remains. If not, then his freedom is returned to him.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:35:23 AM

kdsub

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quote:

without supervision.

In twenty one years would you volunteer to supervise him?....Lets seeeeee it would make you 45 at the time.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/24/2012 11:36:19 AM >

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:35:42 AM

LadyHibiscus

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My only concern with that, Psycho, is how do you determine if he IS dangerous? How do you decide if someone who committed an atrocity for his own arcane reasons is ever going to do it again? I'm glad I won't have to be party to that decisionmaking process.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:38:59 AM

Politesub53

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Usually by the remorse he shows in prison lady H. If he shows none it will go on his record when his sentance comes up for review. We have several prisoners in the UK who are serving way more than the courts originally gave them, for that very reason.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:39:37 AM

kdsub

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I agree... now anyway, I have little faith in psychology to guarantee this man is changed and ready to be trusted in society.

Butch

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:42:08 AM

pyschosubmission

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I will admit, the determination of "dangerous" seems an all too allusive thing. Something for people much more intelligent than I.

I mean he is a man who is clearly delusional, he defence lawyers knew that. It was himself that was unwilling to accept that judgement. Maybe in time he will see the deep error of his ways or maybe the time incarcerated will only strengthen his delusions.

As far as I'm aware though in Norway, criminals such as Breivik, see a dedicated team of psychiatrists, so I do hope they can help him.

He clearly is a man in need of help

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:43:12 AM

pyschosubmission

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I have little faith in psychology

That much is obvious.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:43:14 AM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Usually by the remorse he shows in prison lady H. If he shows none it will go on his record when his sentance comes up for review. We have several prisoners in the UK who are serving way more than the courts originally gave them, for that very reason.

Remorse? Um.

I have no response for that. I have known too many genuine sociopaths.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:46:36 AM

pyschosubmission

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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Remorse? Um.

I have no response for that. I have known too many genuine sociopaths.

That is why they are sociapaths/psychopaths. Actually the current school of thought on psychopaths is regrettably that there is "no cure" and so incarceration is the only option. (If criminally psychopathic, most successful businessmen have remarkable psychopathic tendencies)

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:46:51 AM

kdsub

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I want to add here… I am not criticizing their justice system exactly…If the people of Norway want this system then who am I to demand change or even suggest it. It is just incredulous to me that they would allow the possibility of this type of evil to walk their streets again as a free man.

Butch

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:49:01 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Well it sounds like they have that under control, Butch. Charles Manson isn't walking the streets, right? So it's possible to keep the genuinely dangerous away from the rest of the world. Sometimes.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:50:58 AM

pyschosubmission

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is just incredulous to me that they would allow the possibility of this type of evil to walk their streets again as a free man.

Actually I find the idea of "evil" to be a fallacy, a simplification of life into black and white.

It's absolutism.

I've yet to find anything in life as simple as that.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:55:03 AM

kdsub

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Just so long as he does not get out and decide to immigrate to the US I'll be satisfied....But one thing to remember Manson did not directly kill anyone, at least that is the way I remember it...he just inspired.

This guy pulled the trigger…with glee

But I see what you mean...he cannot seem to hide his evil to be paroled...maybe this guy will not be able to either.

Butch

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 11:57:00 AM

kdsub

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We differ there my friend... absolute or complicated evil is easy to see and feel...God's existance may be in doubt but not evil.

Butch

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 12:00:07 PM

Hillwilliam

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Gonna agree with Butch.

God and Satan may or not exist but Good and Evil certainly do even if only in the minds of men.

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RE: What gentle people you Norwegians must be. - 8/24/2012 12:03:41 PM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyschosubmission

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is just incredulous to me that they would allow the possibility of this type of evil to walk their streets again as a free man.

Actually I find the idea of "evil" to be a fallacy, a simplification of life into black and white.

It's absolutism.

I've yet to find anything in life as simple as that.

Well you're young yet. Not to be ageist, just saying that you have time to have lots of really heinous experiences like us old broads. (and broadettes, or whatever old guys call themselves. coots? curmudgeons?)

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