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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 5:08:55 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline 		Thank you all

Regarding a counseller I will be suggesting that, though I don't know how it will go down, she's pretty inward and presents a very tough exterior to the world to protect herself. I hope she goes for the idea because well, it's at least something.

I can understand about holding onto the anger being bad, anger in itself is a destructive emotion I feel. What worries me is, if the anger goes what will be left. I think the being told she has a case and her desperation for recognition of it is all that's keeping her upright. I'm thinking the crack will happen at the funeral and the pain will take over and I'll be their when it does.

I am sorry this thread made people cry, that wasn't my intent. I posted because well, I'm floundering - I've never experienced this before and have no clue how to help. I don't want to be just another person that mutters platitudes if that makes sense

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 5:17:15 PM   
Duskypearls


Posts: 3561
Joined: 8/21/2011
Status: offline 		What to say? The truth. You can be honest and tell her the experience is bigger than you know how to navigate, that you may not always know what to say, but that you want to support and comfort her in ways that have meaning to her. Ask her to forgive you if you unintentionally say the wrong thing at the wrong time. You can ask her if she has an idea what might be helpful to her; being held, rocked, arm around her shoulder, arm/back rubbing, massage, a hot bath, hair brushed, or words telling her you love and are there for her, etc. Maybe asking her what may I do to help or soothe you? Can I cook for you, or help with any chores? Would you like to talk or be silent, or go for a walk or drive? Do you want company or alone time. Can I get you some comfort food? Do you want to pray, cry, scream, complain, or hit something? Would you like to go to church or have a chaplain/pastor, etc. visit with you?

I'm hoping others will provide suggestions, as well.

< Message edited by Duskypearls -- 8/31/2012 5:49:42 PM >

(in reply to kitkat105)
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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 5:26:10 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
quote:

What to say? The truth. You can be honest and tell her the experience is bigger than you know how to navigate, that you may not always know what to say, but that you want to support and comfort her in ways that have meaning to her.



Thank you -

I guess in part that's what I have been trying to do - I told her nothing I could say would make it better and I didn't want to pretend it would, but that if she needed me I'd be their whatever it was for.

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 5:27:32 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

quote:

What to say? The truth. You can be honest and tell her the experience is bigger than you know how to navigate, that you may not always know what to say, but that you want to support and comfort her in ways that have meaning to her.



Thank you -

I guess in part that's what I have been trying to do - I told her nothing I could say would make it better and I didn't want to pretend it would, but that if she needed me I'd be their whatever it was for.


That's all you can do hon.

(And that's the best thing you can do).

(in reply to amaidiamond)
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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 5:44:44 PM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline 		Oh dear..

I'm actually quite shocked by this.. Okay, I understand hospital policy, but it's a hospital, exceptions can be made, and for the sake of seven days. It's not as if this is something which they would deal with every day.

Okay so there might be little chance that the baby would survive but now the mother will have to deal with 'what if' and making an exception could have easily prevented this.

As for what can you do to say and find words? The simple answer is that you don't have to, actions mean more than words and being there and being supportive without words is just as good. The words will come probably when you have come to terms with the shock and the emotional turmoil of all this, as will your friend.

Sending prayers and positive wishes in the hope that some comfort can be gained from these words.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 5:45:41 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

First off, my warmest sympathy to you and your friend and all those seared by this hideous loss. I am so very sorry for what you're going through!

I agree that there's not much you can say, and words of comfort all too often sound tinny and trite. Yet there may be a few things it would help your friend to hear:

-- "I love you."
-- "You're not alone."
-- "I'm here any time you need me."
-- "I'll listen as long as often as you need to talk."
-- "I'll sit lovingly with you when there are no words."
-- "It's not your fault. You did the best you could in an impossible situation."

One thought that comes to mind is that the trickiest time for support may be after the funeral and its sustaining rituals have passed and folks have turned back to their own lives--while she's left with a huge hole in her heart and life. Frequent check-ins might be a huge help, particularly if she has trouble reaching out.

When my sister-in-law miscarried, I had what a friend calls "the academic response to stress," namely to read as much as I could. One thing I learned was that the due date can be a particularly vulnerable time. By then, she may have been starting to feel a respite from the raw horror, only to be whammed with it again.

Again, my deepest sympathies.








_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 9:44:08 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
quote:

One thought that comes to mind is that the trickiest time for support may be after the funeral and its sustaining rituals have passed and folks have turned back to their own lives--while she's left with a huge hole in her heart and life. Frequent check-ins might be a huge help, particularly if she has trouble reaching out.


Thank you -

You raise a very good point, after my mum passed away it was after everyone had gone back to normal it all really hit me, people almost seemed surprised that 3-6 months on I wasn't over it.

Thank you everyone

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 10:52:38 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

I don't know what to feel, do, say at the moment.


There really is nothing much you can say. Just be there for your friend. Hold her hand. Hug her and let her cry on your shoulder. Or take care of her other children if she just wants to be left alone and bury herself beneath the covers for a day or two. Follow her lead and do whatever you can to help her recover from her loss. Don't push. She may not want to talk about her feelings right now, but she will one day and you want her know that you will be there when she is ready.

I do find sentiments like "I'm so sorry for your loss" and such to be shallow most of the time. Everybody says that. And though most people are sincere, can't they find another way to express that sincerity? Coming from a very close friend, it sounds even worst--it tells the listener you are helpless and don't know what to do or say. While that might be true, it doesn't have to be because all she probably wants is your emotional support anyway. What you do right now is far and away more important than anything you can say.

(in reply to amaidiamond)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 8/31/2012 11:01:17 PM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline 		I know exactly how you feel, amaidiamond, because two once-close friends of mine had something similar happen to their baby girl back in '91. It set them against each other for months, and they pushed everyone away in their grief. There was anger and recrimination as they blamed each other and themselves, and anyone who tried to help either one of them usually became a venting point.

Where is her partner in this? Where is his head at, and are they coping together or apart (if he's even part of the scene)? Sometimes (not always of course, as I pointed out above) two people can reach out better than one.

Your friend has thoughts and prayers from me.

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 2:09:50 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		i actually have nothing to add to what has already been said other than i am sorry for your friend's loss. i can't imagine what she is going through, but with her family, and your own support i hope she finds some peace soon.

needles

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 2:17:47 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I am so very sorry for you and your friend.

And see? That's the thing. There isn't always something you can say. Words aren't always enough to express the depths of grief.

I'm a firm believer in the old adage that God gave us one mouth and two ears for a reason. I'm inclined to say that your friend needs you to listen more than anything else. She needs someone who will hear her, especially since others didn't necessarily listen. More than anything, your friend needs her friend to hear her when she attempts to get the anger and the pain out of her. That is the best thing that you can do for her right now.

I'm really glad that she has you in her life. She's going to need you.


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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 2:41:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I can only add my sympathy and make one suggestion. Be prepared for the anger. She will have plenty. It may sometimes be directed at those she loves the most, including you. Try not to take it personally. This kind of loss is a soul slamming pain. Professional treatment will help. But understanding and forgiveness will go much further than you realize.

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 3:15:36 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

I don't know what I am going to say, how I am going to support her as his coffin goes down.

What can I say when no words will help?

As for me, my feelings.... anger and numbness, the world is gray.



Just put your arms around her, tell her you love her and that you are so sorry.

My sister lost her son to a cot death when he was two weeks old. It turned out that he had an infection caused from a dry birth that had been missed at the hospital. She could of sued, she eventually chose not to.
My sister is my best friend and when she lost her beautiful son I totally went to pieces. I didn't know what to do or say to comfort her and I felt so guilty about being so emotional in front of her.
Some time later she said to me, 'When you sobbed your heart out in front of me I knew how devastated you were, how much you love me and how you felt my sorrow. Your embrace and those simple words 'sorry' was all I needed to hear. She went on to tell me how friends had crossed the street to avoid her because they didn't know what to say and how her telephone stopped ringing from friends who regularly called her for a chat.
Just be there for her because that's what she needs and that's what you need right now.

hugs

(in reply to amaidiamond)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 3:39:47 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		There is nothing to say or do to make this better, and there won't be for a very long time. I lost a child at full term, it's so devastating, it makes you crazy for a time.

quote:

she said that she was ready to steal a baby when her milk came in.


That kinda craziness.

Lots of love, lots of physical contact, lots of letting her get the crazy feelings out w/o her feeling you're trying to "fix" her. Which means hold off on the lawyer and the grief counselor. She might be ready for the counselor in a couple weeks. The lawyer might take longer, she has to be up to having him part of her routine life, and those reminders will bring up not just pain but anger and guilt and frustration. All the many "what ifs" that make this sort of situation so horrible.

Make sure you are getting what you need emotionally as well. She's going to need to suck every emotion you ever had right out of you, so make sure yours stay well and positively charged.

My most powerful spiritual mojo is coming your way.


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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 5:01:04 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Pretty much what everyone else has said, Dia. Many prayers and hugs to you, your friend, and all the others facing this.


my only suggestion, since you say she tends to be an inward person, would be (if she's opposed to the idea of a professional grief counselor) to suggest (down the road a bit) a peer counseling group.

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 8:25:37 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

You raise a very good point, after my mum passed away it was after everyone had gone back to normal it all really hit me, people almost seemed surprised that 3-6 months on I wasn't over it.

That's exactly what I was thinking about. And she may then feel particularly alone, fearing that she's "used up" everyone's sympathy.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 8:32:50 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Nope, not jumping on the bandwagon.
A "stitch" can in no way delay labor but will cause a rupture when the labor starts.
A miscarriage is a tragedy and deserves sympathy but railing against a hospital for not taking heroic measures to keep a non viable fetus moving and suffering for a few more days is self indulgent blame placing.

And please check the difference in the word "lose" and "loose".

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 8:36:49 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

I don't know what I am going to say, how I am going to support her as his coffin goes down.

What can I say when no words will help?

As for me, my feelings.... anger and numbness, the world is gray.


She went on to tell me how friends had crossed the street to avoid her because they didn't know what to say and how her telephone stopped ringing from friends who regularly called her for a chat.
Just be there for her because that's what she needs and that's what you need right now.

hugs



what she said...out of own experience...

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

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RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 8:48:13 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

And please check the difference in the word "lose" and "loose".

Ah yes, I was just thinking that what this heart-rending thread really needed was a visit from the Typo Police.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning... - 9/1/2012 9:54:01 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And please check the difference in the word "lose" and "loose".

Ah yes, I was just thinking that what this heart-rending thread really needed was a visit from the Typo Police.


Indeed.

As for the OP, I can only echo what others have said. Just you being there for her, is enough.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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