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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/12/2012 6:53:12 PM

servantforuse

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It was a typo. It is really $71,000.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 5:20:47 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I think that teaching should be one of the highest paid professions in the country.

Certainly the people to whom we entrust our children should be the best professionals, meeting the highest standards. They SHOULD be paid more than professional atheletes but I think that's a-whole-nother discussion.

No, to me, the issue here is the highest paid teachers that don't necessarily perform to the highest standard. Here's where the union is a demon.

One of the most powerful and corrupt unions in this country is the NEA. And while there's an argument to be made that those that do perform should be paid more, they've thrown in their lot with those that don't perform to the same standards.

With apologies to William; no one is forced to be a coach or the choir leader or the student council advisor or any of those things. They do it either out of a sense of duty/obligation/altruism or they do it to add to their own personal coffers.

Teachers, teaching might put in more than a six hour day with grading papers and such but there are plenty of jobs that require extra work to be done to do the job correctly and efficiently. I know I put in more than 8 hours a day on a regular basis and I work on a commission.

The brass tacks of it is: teachers who "just teach" work about 8 hours a day for 182 days. Ya know what? I'll give you 200 days for pre-September prep. They get two full solid months off every year! They make very little initially but a tenured teacher in this district (I checked) makes $32k That's not "well paid" in this area but it isn't peanuts, either.

What killed public schools in the big cities was a combination of unions and racism/bussing. When bussing became the law, people who lived in better neighborhoods with better schools and paying higher school taxes said "Fuck this. I'm not paying the taxes for a good school so my kid can go to some crap school where there's guns, gangs, and violence. I'm outta here!" and they left the cities.

Since they left the cities, it was difficult for the cities to keep raising taxes on people that just couldn't pay the price so, they had to slow the growth of teachers' salaries. Then the unions went bat-shit crazy and said there was no way they were going to take a pay cut but they still hadn't brought all of the teachers up to standard.

I doubt there is any union in this country that isn't carrying some "dead weight" around so when you say "these teachers are the best ...(Whatever) that we have to offer" please believe that some of them aren't and that goes back to the pay.

It's a vicious cycle and that's why we have to stop just dumping money into public education and actually do something about fixing it.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Nice racist rant. So all the white people left the cities so that is why the schools are crap? lol.....fuck that is funny

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 5:26:29 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

FR

A few random things:

1. If someone serves as a coach, advisor, etc...that is something they are choosing to do, not being forced to. It can also open to community to fill many of those positions - they don't have to be school staff all the time. So to complain about the amount of a stipend that one doesn't have to take seems strange.

2. Yes, kudos to teachers for working long past the scheduled school day. Now somebody please show me a dedicated professional in any line that stops working when the office door closes. Isn't that kind of part of the whole concept of being a professional - putting the value of the well-trained-for necessary work at hand higher than one's own self interest? Why must that be part of the battle cry? It should be a given.

3. Many, many, many people - who are not teachers - serve and volunteer in their community for countless hours. Again...glad that teachers are doing it, but they're not doing anything that the rest of us aren't doing as well.

4. Teachers are not underpaid. Paraprofessionals are underpaid. (No, I'm not a paraprofessional.)

1. I don't think he was complaining that he volunteered to do it. I think he just simply stated that his in season days ran from 7 am to midnight.

2. Why should it be a given? Why have we come to assume extra hours given to an employer freely are part of being Professional? I'd love to hear the logic behind that.

3. Teachers are vastly underpaid for the job that society has given them to do.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 5:37:42 AM

yourdarkdesire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

FR

A few random things:

1. If someone serves as a coach, advisor, etc...that is something they are choosing to do, not being forced to.

I am sorry, but the school division that my husband is employed by, REQUIRES all teachers to be involved in extra-curricular activities. Refusal to do so can cost you your job. They are also required to do all the indoor and outdoor supervision, before school and at noon, once a week. This usually means no lunch on your supervision day.

I really wish people would educate themselves about what teachers really do, before spouting off about teachers salaries.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 6:00:32 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

It was a typo. It is really $71,000.

BULLSHIT!!!

Quit fucking lying.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 6:20:51 AM

Lucylastic

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Negotiators trying to settle the Chicago teachers strike say more than 350,000 students could be back in the classroom by Friday.

“We feel like we’re in a pretty good place, we’ve made a lot of progress today,” Chicago Teachers Union President Karen Lewis said as she left contract talks shortly before midnight Wednesday. “We spent a lot of time on evaluation. We still have a lot of work to do but it seems like we’re definitely coming much closer together than we were certainly this morning.”

Lewis said parents should not bank on classes Thursday but said, “Let’s hope for Friday.”

Chicago school board president David Vitale agreed significant progress had been made during talks Wednesday.

“We had really good discussions and proposals on the most difficult issues that we face,” Vitale said. “We’re hopeful we can actually come together around this.

“Unfortunately they’re not going to be back to school tomorrow, and we’ll hope for Friday.”

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-both-sides-see-progress-as-teachers-strike-reaches-day-4-20120912,0,482612.story

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 8:19:58 AM

RemoteUser

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If education is about money, then make the investment.

Kids are worth it.

Likewise, if the facilitators of education need help, well, help them.

(Simplistic or not, it certainly cleans up things.)

I support teachers, only ever fought with them when it was clear they were ignorant on how to handle certain situations. You get a lot of that when you have an autistic child. Educate the educators and it's win-win.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 2:14:13 PM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

FR

A few random things:

1. If someone serves as a coach, advisor, etc...that is something they are choosing to do, not being forced to.

I am sorry, but the school division that my husband is employed by, REQUIRES all teachers to be involved in extra-curricular activities. Refusal to do so can cost you your job. They are also required to do all the indoor and outdoor supervision, before school and at noon, once a week. This usually means no lunch on your supervision day.

I really wish people would educate themselves about what teachers really do, before spouting off about teachers salaries.

I'm quite educated on the topic. I'm just on the other side of the table, which is not always a popular place to be when discussing the plight of teachers. And I'm not spouting. I'm discussing. These are discussion boards, no?

Allowing no time for lunch is illegal, so I would be surprised if the district was making that happen. (Though, certainly, there are some sketchy employers everywhere.) Do emergency situations pop up? Of course. Should it be scheduled as such, though? Absolutely not.

I would be interested to know how it is that your husband is required to serve on an extra curricular activity. Is it in his union contract? (If it's a union district.) Is it part of his individual contract? This is a genuine question. I'm curious. (I would actually be curious as to the actual wording, since I kind of live and breathe teacher union contracts. I guess it certainly could be part of their requirements. But to be honest - I do comparisons of many collective bargaining agreements and I've yet to see it.) And if it is indeed required, I would say two things. 1. I would concede that point and 2. Your husband's union negotiating team sucks. :)

I would also say, though, that a few extra hours here and there is not anything major. When I used to be in banking we were required to work two Saturdays a month, well over 40 hours. So it happens. Teachers or otherwise.

This is a very personal issue for people, which is why I hate coming down here and jumping in. I understand that very few people will agree with me. Perhaps it's an exercise in building up my fortitude.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 2:32:50 PM

Kaliko

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quote:

1. I don't think he was complaining that he volunteered to do it. I think he just simply stated that his in season days ran from 7 am to midnight.

I was responding to what I think Hillwilliam said about it working out to $5-6 an hour. I wasn't clear on that.

quote:

2. Why should it be a given? Why have we come to assume extra hours given to an employer freely are part of being Professional? I'd love to hear the logic behind that.

A professional in the sense of one who is working with a set of learned skills and expertise in an area of their calling. "Extra hours" is beside the point. If it needs to be done, it gets done, regardless of the clock. Not paid by the hour, but rather, for the work.

quote:

3. Teachers are vastly underpaid for the job that society has given them to do.

Well, I disagree, but even if I didn't, that's not really what I take umbrage at. It's that there are so many people in other occupations that also deserve much higher pay. But they don't have the same public sympathy that teachers do. And teachers are just so very much better off than them. So when I hear about teachers who are complaining, it makes me really feel for the ones who really are worse off.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 3:54:04 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

If education is about money, then make the investment.

Kids are worth it.

But they aren't, though, are they? I see lots of people on TV with moist eyes talking about how precious their kids are - but, at the same time, people don't seem to want to put their money where their mouths are. In money terms, kids are worth bugger all. That's why child-carers are paid bugger all and even that little is the source of so many bitter complaints by the parents.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 4:05:46 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire
I really wish people would educate themselves about what teachers really do, before spouting off about teachers salaries.

It's a weird thing - pretty universal, it seems - but people do seem to think they know what teachers do in a way that they'd never claim with regard to, say, lawyers, estate agents or dentists. I did a teaching qualification many years ago and then made a point of avoiding teaching as a career because it was putting too many of my friends and acquaintances into their doctors' surgeries with stress and depression. They were working *ludicrous* numbers of hours. Little Johnny's parents, the government, and even little Johnny himself, all blamed them for the fact that little Johnny was a delinquent rather than a budding Einstein.

Pfft. Here in the UK, I could earn a UK teacher's salary on a half of their hours, and with far less stress, as a plumber. Sod that for a lark.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 5:53:48 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I think that teaching should be one of the highest paid professions in the country.

Certainly the people to whom we entrust our children should be the best professionals, meeting the highest standards. They SHOULD be paid more than professional atheletes but I think that's a-whole-nother discussion.

No, to me, the issue here is the highest paid teachers that don't necessarily perform to the highest standard. Here's where the union is a demon.

One of the most powerful and corrupt unions in this country is the NEA. And while there's an argument to be made that those that do perform should be paid more, they've thrown in their lot with those that don't perform to the same standards.

With apologies to William; no one is forced to be a coach or the choir leader or the student council advisor or any of those things. They do it either out of a sense of duty/obligation/altruism or they do it to add to their own personal coffers.

Teachers, teaching might put in more than a six hour day with grading papers and such but there are plenty of jobs that require extra work to be done to do the job correctly and efficiently. I know I put in more than 8 hours a day on a regular basis and I work on a commission.

The brass tacks of it is: teachers who "just teach" work about 8 hours a day for 182 days. Ya know what? I'll give you 200 days for pre-September prep. They get two full solid months off every year! They make very little initially but a tenured teacher in this district (I checked) makes $32k That's not "well paid" in this area but it isn't peanuts, either.

What killed public schools in the big cities was a combination of unions and racism/bussing. When bussing became the law, people who lived in better neighborhoods with better schools and paying higher school taxes said "Fuck this. I'm not paying the taxes for a good school so my kid can go to some crap school where there's guns, gangs, and violence. I'm outta here!" and they left the cities.

Since they left the cities, it was difficult for the cities to keep raising taxes on people that just couldn't pay the price so, they had to slow the growth of teachers' salaries. Then the unions went bat-shit crazy and said there was no way they were going to take a pay cut but they still hadn't brought all of the teachers up to standard.

I doubt there is any union in this country that isn't carrying some "dead weight" around so when you say "these teachers are the best ...(Whatever) that we have to offer" please believe that some of them aren't and that goes back to the pay.

It's a vicious cycle and that's why we have to stop just dumping money into public education and actually do something about fixing it.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Nice racist rant. So all the white people left the cities so that is why the schools are crap? lol.....fuck that is funny

Of course....he's racist because he thinks that children in (any) district should be allowed to go to their own schools (hence why those parents chose those residential locations), instead of being bus'd to places they never wanted their kids to go to.

THAT's Fucking racist....demanding that whites/blacks/asians should go to some mixed place where their parents deemed the educational system to be lacking.

Good job DYB....

Wanna know why the whites and asians left the inner city?

Because the school systems there suck.

Because they're predominantly black?

Fuck no....read a book dude, maybe even a newspaper....it's because those schools suck.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 7:34:27 PM

FMRFGOPGAL

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL

quote:

182 actual school days in Wisconsin. That's 6 months
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

182 actual school days in Wisconsin. That's 6 months..

My former roommate is a teacher in a public school and I am VERY familiar with her workload.

That 182 days is spread out over Close to 10 months.
What's your confusion about? Never heard of a thing called the work week? Maybe weekends, holidays, ring a bell.
Also, a teacher doesn't get a check during the summer, unless they spread out their check. Which many do.
And the numbers being discussed here are not example representative of the experience of the teachers I have known here in New England. My former roommate has taught 3 years now and she is up to an annual salary of $41k per/year. Given she went to a college that cost her $60k per/year, people should be kissing her ass for opting to work with the public's kids at their pittance wages. She had an offer from a corporation as an in-house educator. Oh, I guess she's some kind of idiot for giving back to society. Sorry, forgot.

She's not an idiot.

She's a person who went to school, searching for a degree....got one and landed in her chosen field.

And?

My point was simply that she isn't in teaching to bilk taxpayers. And the she is giving a great deal of value for what she's paid. It wasn't a proxy application for sainthood.

< Message edited by FMRFGOPGAL -- 9/13/2012 7:49:11 PM >

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/13/2012 10:14:04 PM

erieangel

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Oh, but teachers don't work 8 hour days. They are in the classroom for 8 hours. But being in the classroom isn't all that they do. They also coach sports teams, advise clubs, correct papers, read book reports, meet with angry parents when "little Billy" is failing a subject, tutor students after school, write lesson plans---and most of this stuff they are doing outside of the 8 hour school day!!

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/14/2012 12:07:02 AM

yourdarkdesire

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A few hours here and there??? See, here comes the uneducated part again. Football season required daily practice, 3:30 - 6:30, Monday to Friday. Game on Saturday, sometimes up to three hours away. You have a late game, and you're not home until after 11 pm. Wrestling season is even worse. Take the practices and add on out of town nine frickin weekends in a row! We livr in Alberta, Canada. Find a map and see how big we are. Tournaments are not simply a drive across town.

Contracts. We have a number of school divisions, but the teachers have all gotten together and done a provincisl contract. It use to be that people who taught in my city, made several thousand dollars a year more than hubby, who works for a country in a small town 20 minutes down the road. The lunch hour supevision crap is employer based, not union.

Btw, the school division in my city, pays teachers and community members to look after coaching duties.

< Message edited by yourdarkdesire -- 9/14/2012 12:10:17 AM >

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/14/2012 3:47:04 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I think that teaching should be one of the highest paid professions in the country.

Certainly the people to whom we entrust our children should be the best professionals, meeting the highest standards. They SHOULD be paid more than professional atheletes but I think that's a-whole-nother discussion.

No, to me, the issue here is the highest paid teachers that don't necessarily perform to the highest standard. Here's where the union is a demon.

One of the most powerful and corrupt unions in this country is the NEA. And while there's an argument to be made that those that do perform should be paid more, they've thrown in their lot with those that don't perform to the same standards.

With apologies to William; no one is forced to be a coach or the choir leader or the student council advisor or any of those things. They do it either out of a sense of duty/obligation/altruism or they do it to add to their own personal coffers.

Teachers, teaching might put in more than a six hour day with grading papers and such but there are plenty of jobs that require extra work to be done to do the job correctly and efficiently. I know I put in more than 8 hours a day on a regular basis and I work on a commission.

The brass tacks of it is: teachers who "just teach" work about 8 hours a day for 182 days. Ya know what? I'll give you 200 days for pre-September prep. They get two full solid months off every year! They make very little initially but a tenured teacher in this district (I checked) makes $32k That's not "well paid" in this area but it isn't peanuts, either.

What killed public schools in the big cities was a combination of unions and racism/bussing. When bussing became the law, people who lived in better neighborhoods with better schools and paying higher school taxes said "Fuck this. I'm not paying the taxes for a good school so my kid can go to some crap school where there's guns, gangs, and violence. I'm outta here!" and they left the cities.

Since they left the cities, it was difficult for the cities to keep raising taxes on people that just couldn't pay the price so, they had to slow the growth of teachers' salaries. Then the unions went bat-shit crazy and said there was no way they were going to take a pay cut but they still hadn't brought all of the teachers up to standard.

I doubt there is any union in this country that isn't carrying some "dead weight" around so when you say "these teachers are the best ...(Whatever) that we have to offer" please believe that some of them aren't and that goes back to the pay.

It's a vicious cycle and that's why we have to stop just dumping money into public education and actually do something about fixing it.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Nice racist rant. So all the white people left the cities so that is why the schools are crap? lol.....fuck that is funny

Why do you assume he is talking about all white people? Don't you think blacks care about what kind of education their kids get? Don't you think they would move in order to get their kids a better education? Now personally I think the corruption in the Detroit public schools has done a lot more harm than folks moving to the burbs, but the loss of that income didn't help.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/14/2012 5:02:59 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

quote:

1. I don't think he was complaining that he volunteered to do it. I think he just simply stated that his in season days ran from 7 am to midnight.

I was responding to what I think Hillwilliam said about it working out to $5-6 an hour. I wasn't clear on that.

quote:

2. Why should it be a given? Why have we come to assume extra hours given to an employer freely are part of being Professional? I'd love to hear the logic behind that.

A professional in the sense of one who is working with a set of learned skills and expertise in an area of their calling. "Extra hours" is beside the point. If it needs to be done, it gets done, regardless of the clock. Not paid by the hour, but rather, for the work.

quote:

3. Teachers are vastly underpaid for the job that society has given them to do.

Well, I disagree, but even if I didn't, that's not really what I take umbrage at. It's that there are so many people in other occupations that also deserve much higher pay. But they don't have the same public sympathy that teachers do. And teachers are just so very much better off than them. So when I hear about teachers who are complaining, it makes me really feel for the ones who really are worse off.

For the fun of it. Why don't you tell me which jobs are Professional and which are simply slackers doing "work". Your elitism makes me laugh. The false sense of concern for "other" workers turns my stomach.

You obviously are a fucking lawyer. Making your living fucking people in the ass. Given that teachers are the mainstay of helping kids grow and learn then I think that maybe they ought to be paid just a bit above normal. Don't you agree? Or were you self taught.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/14/2012 5:04:09 AM

DomYngBlk

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Because boi, it is a regular theme with him. Or dont you read his other posts.

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RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/14/2012 5:11:12 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I think that teaching should be one of the highest paid professions in the country.

Certainly the people to whom we entrust our children should be the best professionals, meeting the highest standards. They SHOULD be paid more than professional atheletes but I think that's a-whole-nother discussion.

No, to me, the issue here is the highest paid teachers that don't necessarily perform to the highest standard. Here's where the union is a demon.

One of the most powerful and corrupt unions in this country is the NEA. And while there's an argument to be made that those that do perform should be paid more, they've thrown in their lot with those that don't perform to the same standards.

With apologies to William; no one is forced to be a coach or the choir leader or the student council advisor or any of those things. They do it either out of a sense of duty/obligation/altruism or they do it to add to their own personal coffers.

Teachers, teaching might put in more than a six hour day with grading papers and such but there are plenty of jobs that require extra work to be done to do the job correctly and efficiently. I know I put in more than 8 hours a day on a regular basis and I work on a commission.

The brass tacks of it is: teachers who "just teach" work about 8 hours a day for 182 days. Ya know what? I'll give you 200 days for pre-September prep. They get two full solid months off every year! They make very little initially but a tenured teacher in this district (I checked) makes $32k That's not "well paid" in this area but it isn't peanuts, either.

What killed public schools in the big cities was a combination of unions and racism/bussing. When bussing became the law, people who lived in better neighborhoods with better schools and paying higher school taxes said "Fuck this. I'm not paying the taxes for a good school so my kid can go to some crap school where there's guns, gangs, and violence. I'm outta here!" and they left the cities.

Since they left the cities, it was difficult for the cities to keep raising taxes on people that just couldn't pay the price so, they had to slow the growth of teachers' salaries. Then the unions went bat-shit crazy and said there was no way they were going to take a pay cut but they still hadn't brought all of the teachers up to standard.

I doubt there is any union in this country that isn't carrying some "dead weight" around so when you say "these teachers are the best ...(Whatever) that we have to offer" please believe that some of them aren't and that goes back to the pay.

It's a vicious cycle and that's why we have to stop just dumping money into public education and actually do something about fixing it.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Nice racist rant. So all the white people left the cities so that is why the schools are crap? lol.....fuck that is funny

Of course....he's racist because he thinks that children in (any) district should be allowed to go to their own schools (hence why those parents chose those residential locations), instead of being bus'd to places they never wanted their kids to go to.

THAT's Fucking racist....demanding that whites/blacks/asians should go to some mixed place where their parents deemed the educational system to be lacking.

Good job DYB....

Wanna know why the whites and asians left the inner city?

Because the school systems there suck.

Because they're predominantly black?

Fuck no....read a book dude, maybe even a newspaper....it's because those schools suck.

"Some mixed place"......Some mixed place....The prosecution rests...

Come to look forward to your dripping with it lookie.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

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Post #: 119

RE: Highest Paid Teachers in the Country Strike - 9/14/2012 6:12:22 AM

FMRFGOPGAL

Posts: 763
Joined: 9/1/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

During football and wrestling seasons, it wasn't uncommon for me to leave the house before 7 and get home about midnight.

Didn't you get additional funds for being a coach/advisor to the sports teams? The teachers around here do for advising/coaching any of the sports/clubs.

Coaching went for an extra 2500/year. That's about $5-6/hour.
My 12 hour days were in the offseason.