RE: Some insight into the Arab riots.

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (Full Version)

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FatDomDaddy -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 9:36:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u "How do we know it's a crap film? " Have you seen the clips of it ? Calling it a "film" is in and of itself an insult to the industry that gave us the Godfather,Casablanca , Gone With the Wind and so many other classics. Trust me on this FDD(even if you trust me on nothing else) I have seen excerpts of this film,"crap" is an overstatement . This film is less than shit. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If this is it, it looks like something a HS film club would put together. So does The Blair Witch Project, so does Eraserhead, so does Jesus vs. Frosty.... want more? And Please.... an insult to the Industry? More so than Plan 9 from Outer Space? More so than Howard the Duck? More so than Battlefield Earth?

SpaceSpank -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 9:41:46 AM)
The problem you and many have is that you are not dealing with a "group of extremists" who hate America and the American way of life. You are dealing with a society of largely poor, uneducated, and underprivileged people who are whipped into a frenzy to hate a false idea of what America (and the western world in general) represent for them. Much like this "film" they are upset over, it uses convenient partial truths and outright fallacies to present a message depicting something ugly. Why is that our problem? Because we continue to go over there and interfere in the affairs of the region. Our actions, for good for for ill, give credence to many of the arguments the Muslim extremists use to manipulate the general public. It's not unlike the KKK here in America. Do you agree with them? Do you feel they represent every Christian person the world over? I'd hope not, but it's the same thing many here and elsewhere do. They attribute the work of a small number of extremists to the entire Muslim world. The radical Muslims are the KKK of the Middle East, and they live in a society that they can manipulate easily, they use faith, politics, and doctrine to incite people who may not agree with them ideologically to still go along with them in bursts of violence. It's easier to get the "everyman" to work themselves into a frenzy when you can actually show them things attacking and insulting their core beliefs. They use that and many other things to manipulate people that largely have no other real means of information... after all, it's much easier to blame someone else for your misfortunes than to be accountable on your own... that is just as true here in the USA as it is in the Middle East. So how do you deal with it? The more violence and racism you show towards the group as a whole, the more you "prove" how correct the extremists are. You want freedom of speech? That's fine, however you (figurative you) knows that not everyone does. This filmmaker in specific knows what type of reaction such commentary would likely spark... especially on the anniversary of Sept 11, in which there's a great deal of tensions already. Would you walk into the middle of Harlem dressed as a KKK Grand Wizard, start spouting off about how inferior black people are and how they should all be killed? Would you travel to Israel in full Nazi regalia and start shouting how Hitler was right? If you did either of those things, do you honestly expect that your actions would not be likely incite violence? You can't have freedom of speech and yet willfully ignore the consequences. If you insult someone to their face, you can't rely on free speech to stop them from kicking your ass. Knowing the likely/inevitable outcome of something you do will be dangerous and negative and still doing it anyways is at best careless, and at worst hateful. We as a society should be better than that. (I know we aren't, but it would be nice if we at least pretended) You can't beat ignorance with more ignorance. quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse It is impossible to resolve problems with a group of extremists that hate Americans and our way of life. Mike is right. Apologizing to these people is something we should never do. It will only embolden them and make things worse.

slvemike4u -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 9:43:09 AM)
Oh for fuck's sake FDD,if you feel the need to debate the merits of this film any further start a fucking thread,I for one could give a shit about the "quality" of this film or the standards you apply to film appreciation. I have given my opinion,that's all it is,my opinion...and none of your usual childish bullshit will alter my opinion ,nor how I choose to express that opinion So let me be clear,in my opinion this(film) is nothing more than a waste of celluloid(though I highly doubt it was even filmed in actual film, probably recorded on some digital device.Calling it a film is probably a misnomer)shit that is best consigned to the dustbin. Clear enough ?

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 9:49:08 AM)
p.s. I think it is completely irrelevant what the quality of the film is, and whether it has artistic merit or not. The First Amendment does protect the filmaker's right to make this film. One does question the motives, however, because I don't think creating art was what they were trying to do. And yes, I have seen clips from the film. The people who funded and created this film wanted to be provocative and they were successful at what they set out to do. Unfortunately, now the rest of us have to deal with the aftermath.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 10:21:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy And Please.... an insult to the Industry? More so than Plan 9 from Outer Space? More so than Howard the Duck? More so than Battlefield Earth? I liked Howard the Duck. That feathery SOB got more ass than a toilet seat.

Musicmystery -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 10:23:51 AM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE

atursvcMaam -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 10:49:17 AM)
The film is not so much the issue except as a catalyst. Were it not for this issue it would have been something else. As for the religious slight, change the main character to Christ, and eliminate Jesus' concept of turn the other cheek, and do unto others as you would have done unto you, and replace it with.....If anyone does not believe in my teachings they are infidels, and do not deserve to share the same earth with you, my faithful. You don't have to kill them, but........ I realize that this is a highly simplistic explanation, but it is an aid to anyone who might try to go into negotiations blindly.

subrob1967 -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 11:07:28 AM)
I believe you guys are arguing the from the same side. Only FDD is saying a 2 minute trailer is not a film. Anyone can make a two minute video and post it on YT, but does the full feature film even exist? That being said, our current sit back and let the chips fall where they may foreign policy is biting us in the ass. We're experiencing 32 protests in 30 countries I hope would be a wake up call to the west. The majority of Islam run countries just don't like freedom. They want Sharia, and the restrictive policies Sharia imposes... And they want it for EVERYONE, not just themselves.

TheHeretic -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 11:13:14 AM)
And that the media which placed this film into the consciousness of the "Arab Street," IS state controlled should play a large role in how we view the protests.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 11:20:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpaceSpank The problem you and many have is that you are not dealing with a "group of extremists" who hate America and the American way of life. You are dealing with a society of largely poor, uneducated, and underprivileged people who are whipped into a frenzy to hate a false idea of what America (and the western world in general) represent for them. Much like this "film" they are upset over, it uses convenient partial truths and outright fallacies to present a message depicting something ugly. Why is that our problem? Because we continue to go over there and interfere in the affairs of the region. Our actions, for good for for ill, give credence to many of the arguments the Muslim extremists use to manipulate the general public. It's not unlike the KKK here in America. Do you agree with them? Do you feel they represent every Christian person the world over? I'd hope not, but it's the same thing many here and elsewhere do. They attribute the work of a small number of extremists to the entire Muslim world. The radical Muslims are the KKK of the Middle East, and they live in a society that they can manipulate easily, they use faith, politics, and doctrine to incite people who may not agree with them ideologically to still go along with them in bursts of violence. It's easier to get the "everyman" to work themselves into a frenzy when you can actually show them things attacking and insulting their core beliefs. They use that and many other things to manipulate people that largely have no other real means of information... after all, it's much easier to blame someone else for your misfortunes than to be accountable on your own... that is just as true here in the USA as it is in the Middle East. So how do you deal with it? The more violence and racism you show towards the group as a whole, the more you "prove" how correct the extremists are. You want freedom of speech? That's fine, however you (figurative you) knows that not everyone does. This filmmaker in specific knows what type of reaction such commentary would likely spark... especially on the anniversary of Sept 11, in which there's a great deal of tensions already. Would you walk into the middle of Harlem dressed as a KKK Grand Wizard, start spouting off about how inferior black people are and how they should all be killed? Would you travel to Israel in full Nazi regalia and start shouting how Hitler was right? If you did either of those things, do you honestly expect that your actions would not be likely incite violence? You can't have freedom of speech and yet willfully ignore the consequences. If you insult someone to their face, you can't rely on free speech to stop them from kicking your ass. Knowing the likely/inevitable outcome of something you do will be dangerous and negative and still doing it anyways is at best careless, and at worst hateful. We as a society should be better than that. (I know we aren't, but it would be nice if we at least pretended) You can't beat ignorance with more ignorance. Again, it is the crying out fire in a crowded theatre issue. You might be interested in knowing that Steve Klein, who is a promoter of the film, is already on the watchlist of the Southern Poverty Law Center as being part of hate groups in the U.S. This is no regular film promoter - the film was specifically made to be hateful and falls into the types of things you mention in your post. Klein is on record as saying that he is willing to die for his beliefs - in other words, he is not complaining that people are now after him, but it is undeniable that he is a promoter of hate. http://www.dailycamera.com/nation-world-news/ci_21540538/anti-muslim-movie-promoter-steve-klein-is-father

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 11:24:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Oh for fuck's sake FDD,if you feel the need to debate the merits of this film any further start a fucking thread,I for one could give a shit about the "quality" of this film or the standards you apply to film appreciation. I have given my opinion,that's all it is,my opinion...and none of your usual childish bullshit will alter my opinion ,nor how I choose to express that opinion So let me be clear,in my opinion this(film) is nothing more than a waste of celluloid(though I highly doubt it was even filmed in actual film, probably recorded on some digital device.Calling it a film is probably a misnomer)shit that is best consigned to the dustbin. Clear enough ? What is very clear, very very clear is your reaction. As for starting another thread... I was not the one who brought the quality of the film/movie/video/digital short/zoetrope/mutoscope/praxinoscope or Magic Lantern Show... whatever you want to call. The OP brought in the artistic value of the "film" Oh and it is also crystal clear is that at least for now, in the United States of America, we can be quite thankful that slavemike is not the arbiter of what is and what is not a waste of celluloid and what artistic visions are allowed to be view by the public or lost forever to government dustbins.

Musicmystery -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 11:46:25 AM)
quote: The majority of Islam run countries just don't like freedom. They want Sharia, and the restrictive policies Sharia imposes... And they want it for EVERYONE, not just themselves. Ah, no.

Musicmystery -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 11:47:40 AM)
quote: our current sit back and let the chips fall where they may foreign policy is biting us in the ass. Whining if we get involved, whining if we don't get involved.

PeonForHer -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 11:51:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse It is impossible to resolve problems with a group of extremists that hate Americans and our way of life. Are you talking about those who are attacking the embassies, or those who made the film that incited them?

PeonForHer -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 11:55:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpaceSpank You can't beat ignorance with more ignorance. True, and that should be repeated over and over. Mind you, it'll probably be ignored over and over, too.

kdsub -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 2:01:01 PM)
No excuse...if the below is true.... "These are people who were born and raised in dictatorships. They are accustomed to thinking that a government controls its citizens -- that a film or documentary cannot be produced without government approval." Then would they not understand that the citizens of America may not be insulting anyone's religion...even if it deserves it? They are just backward people living in the 6th century and may need a helping hand to understand the reality of today...That reality may be the business end of a M230 chain gun. Butch

subrob1967 -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 2:11:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: The majority of Islam run countries just don't like freedom. They want Sharia, and the restrictive policies Sharia imposes... And they want it for EVERYONE, not just themselves. Ah, no. Really? Can you prove it?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 2:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse It is impossible to resolve problems with a group of extremists that hate Americans and our way of life. Are you talking about those who are attacking the embassies, or those who made the film that incited them? I'm gonna make a wild stab and say "Both". This just in. He may be headed back to jail. (he has been on probation) http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/09/anti-islam-filmmaker-could-be-headed-back-jail/56891/ I wonder what his life expectancy will be in there?

kdsub -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 2:23:59 PM)
I wonder what it is going to take for people to understand that the hate of America in many Muslim nations is not political. They hate Democrats just as much as republicans… They hate everything American and that includes mom and apple pie and puppy dogs. We need to become self-sufficient in our energy needs and stay out of their business and let them eat their oil when we don’t need it… Maybe they will understand the errors of their ways and join civilized society again someday. Until then I am all for leaving them alone as long as they leave us alone…we have no business trying to help people, with the blood of our children, when they don’t want our help. Let them live in their ignorance, it is what they want and are good at, and believe what they wish Butch

Owner59 -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/15/2012 3:31:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy How do we know it's a crap film? I still cannot find one person in the entire world who has actually see in it! It may be but clearly... this "film" is being used as an excuse to cover organized attacks on America. Ignorance is bliss.....those that can afford bliss, that is.[8\|] So you`re going with the "they hate our freedom" bullshit ....again...? [8\|] The film......... is just a coincidence.....eh?.....[8\|] Ya know,by defending the the jack-assed "pastor" who was burning the Koran and starting riots in Afghanistan and who`s NOW promoted this piece of garbage that`s starting riots all over the world TODAY.....you`re only reinforcing the feeling that cons are incomptent and that their world view is less than worldly. Are we to take it now that a Romney admin. will be promoting riots and unrest in the ME as policy and that you cons will support that reckless approach.......no matter how many Americans get killed?

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