RE: Some insight into the Arab riots.

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 4:08:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr It's pretty amusing (to me) to see all the usual suspects that trash Christianity defending Islam so ardently. I guess selective tolerence really is the order of the day! Hell, DS, can't you see? Most of us who are defending more of a dove than a hawk position are doing so because we see this as the best, or indeed the only, way to defend the lives of Americans - not to mention other westerners. Me, I'd want to keep hatred-filled Muslims under control just as I'd want to keep hatred-filled Christians under control. This is because the one thing that we can't afford to tolerate at such crisis points as this is intolerance. It's bad enough letting the lunatics take over the asylum - it could be literally a global calamity to let them take over the world. I'm not going to be the man who says, 'Here, Mr Looney Christian, this is Mr Looney Muslim. You two are now in charge of the lives of all the rest of us.'

angelikaJ -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 4:17:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr It's pretty amusing (to me) to see all the usual suspects that trash Christianity defending Islam so ardently. I guess selective tolerence really is the order of the day! If these extremists ever get a foothold on legitimacy, they will start campaigning against the very things that so many on these very boards hold so dear. You think fundie Christians want to wipe out abortion? You're gonna love Sharia law. You think the death penalty is inhumane? Wait until your teen-ager gets caught shoplifting! It simply astounds me. It makes me think that some of the people here really are Anti-America and that makes me sad. Peace and comfort, Michael Defending the principal of freedom of religion and the inherent responsibility that comes with the right of free speech is not anti-America but pro-America. And that is what bothered me so much about Romney's mentioning of American values. If religious intolerance and hate speech against another person's religion has become an American value then I belong to a different America. As far as your fear goes, DS, it is the fastest growing religion. However the more people work to make certain that the wold view and American view is intolerant of Islam; the more people who don't make room for them at the table, the more tendency towards non-traditional Islam (aka extremism) we are going to see. Fear is borne of ignorance. There is much fear on both sides and ignorance as well. Exhibiting hostility, either open or covert is creating problems faster than can be fixed. Edit to fix a typo Rule pointed out.

dcnovice -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 4:21:41 PM)
FR Some interesting food for thought: Religious News Service: 12 Essential points about the offensive film on the Prophet Muhammad, and the subsequent reactions in Libya & Egypt I'm not sold on all his points, but he raises some interesting thoughts.

kdsub -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 4:25:11 PM)
I quoted your link...what else can I do... your link only said they approved of the US handling...that is a far cry from saying they are pro American as the recent events have proven…can you not see the difference? They approved of us helping them...giving them money and that is it... Your own link went on to say the majority thought the US military was a threat. Butch

Rule -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 4:44:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Ignorance is borne of fear. You have got that mixed up.

Rule -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 4:54:03 PM)
FR This whole "Freedom of religion" thing served but one purpose: to break and fragment the power of the Catholic Church - and later of the other Christian denominations. I think that was a good thing, for religious nuts do are crazy. However, it also ended the subservience of the kings (read: politicians) to the ethical power of the Church. There is no longer One Nation, One King and One God; and that hamstrings us. And so do doves drag down hawks, disabling those who would defend them.

angelikaJ -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 4:57:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Ignorance is borne of fear. You have got that mixed up. Thank you. You are right...although I kind of see it can be a both/and loop- ie when people are fearful they are also less likely to input new information and change their thought.

Rule -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 5:17:14 PM)
I am likely the most cowardly person on Earth. I have no love for war. Yet wars do serve a purpose. I would like to recommend everyone to read the "Incarnations of immortality" series by Piers Anthony, and then especially the tome "Wielding a red sword". I would also like to remind the slaves and submissives on here that most of you are special people with rather unique perspectives; and that there are other perspectives that sometimes must be given a higher priority.

PeonForHer -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 6:27:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule And so do doves drag down hawks, disabling those who would defend them. Bollocks. On this occasion at least, the reverse is true.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 7:29:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Generalizations are useful in certain circumstances. For example, if we talk about a freight of eggs, we might assert that there either are a lot of bad eggs or few bad egss in the freight. It is an assertion that does not say anything about individual eggs, just about a characteristic of the freight as a whole. But how do you draw a conclusion about the freight without having inspected some of the freights to begin with? Making such an assertion one way or another without anything to back it up is simply going to lead to an inaccurate assertion. How many Muslim people do you actually know? How many Muslim people have you actually interacted with face-to-face? What type of people were they? What percentage of their respective populations do they represent overall? What are the reasonable assertions you can draw from this? Just as I don't treat all Christians as fundamentalist Christian (because they aren't) not all Muslim people are terrorists. Assertions are fine. But I am talking about at least trying to deal with the facts. Should I take the fact that a white man went to a Sikh temple in Wisconsin this summer and killed people as evidence that all white people are terrorists - or should I take it as evidence that a person who is part of a hate group is more likely to use violence? Again, what facts does one use to create what assertions? By your logic, I should now go around assuming that all white people are terrorists.....[&:]

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 7:34:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee When you go to exterminate vermin, you do not talk with them, you do make threats, you kill them. This is exactly how the Nazis viewed Jews, gays, gypsies, and other enemies. Your viewpoint certainly has powerful historical precedent. Just not sure that's the path we should follow. [&:]

FMRFGOPGAL -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 8:26:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee When you go to exterminate vermin, you do not talk with them, you do make threats, you kill them. This is exactly how the Nazis viewed Jews, gays, gypsies, and other enemies. Your viewpoint certainly has powerful historical precedent. Just not sure that's the path we should follow. [&:] I referred to PM Netanyahu's possibly POLITICALLY inappropriate behavior in the wake of his meeting with the PM and their being "old friends" (which he personally acknowledged this morning on "Meet The Press"). And yes, I have some pretty reasonable concerns, and for that I was called "anti-Semitic" my maternal grandparents were out to Prudence this afyernoon and had a great laugh when I reiterated the discussion.[:D]

stellauk -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 8:50:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule I am likely the most cowardly person on Earth. I have no love for war. Yet wars do serve a purpose. Only when they're fought out of necessity, and not based on propaganda and lies.

Aylee -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 9:07:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee When you go to exterminate vermin, you do not talk with them, you do make threats, you kill them. This is exactly how the Nazis viewed Jews, gays, gypsies, and other enemies. Your viewpoint certainly has powerful historical precedent. Just not sure that's the path we should follow. [&:] Are you suggesting that the Jews, gays, and gypsies were terrorists? Being fed, sheltered and succored by so called non-combatants?

Aylee -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 9:11:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpaceSpank If you're going to decry ALL Muslims the world over for the actions of less than 1% I know that math is hard, but do you understand how many Muslims there are in 1%? There are a billion plus Muslims. 1% of that is ten million. That is not just "a few." That is rather more. Many more. I would also say that your figure of 1% is way too low for the number of Islamic Supremacists.

BenevolentM -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 9:28:48 PM)
The Islamic radicals appear intent on committing genocide. They want to take Israel off the map and kill all the Jews. I fear that Obama is a weakling. The problem is diplomacy only works with people willing to come to an agreement, but they are not willing to come to any agreement. They want their way and that is it. These are not people you can reason with. They do not require having been wronged for them to do the things they are doing; consequently, there is no wrong to be made right. It is not revenge they seek. They want their way and nothing less than their way. It seems likely they fear that this is the time to act because if they fail to do so now they will go by way of the dinosaur. This is their last hurrah. They are going to go extinct, they figure they might as well take the Jews with them. Some believe that our economy may soon collapse. I suspect that the Islamic radicals believe that Obama is a weakling who will give them time and the next President will be a stronger military leader, but strong at a time when we cannot afford to be strong. They may be hoping that American will soon fall into a deep depression that will cause America to fall much like the Soviet Union fell when it was put under economic pressure. The war will put us under economic pressure. I'm guessing, they figure that it may be enough to break the camel's back. How must we respond? We need to put our propaganda machine into full fear in preparation for World War III and wake up to the fact that we need to put aside political correctness. Grandma is not a potential terrorist. She never was. We did not do wrong in World War II. The war needs to uplift the economy, not tear it down. We need to stop suspecting grandma of being a terrorist in order to for us to be politically correct. It was a waste of resources and caused us to eat ourselves alive. More specifically, we need to stop pursuing highly speculative conjectures concerning who a potential terrorist is. There is only one sort, Islamic radical. They are the enemy. Having said that I still believe that Obama is right about universal health care. We shouldn't give that up. Why? Medical care was at one time a luxury item, when medicine really couldn't do anything for you. Today it can do a great deal for you. That is why it is no longer a luxury item. This is something the liberals got right. The liberals and conservatives are going to need to become less polarized. It is something the conservatives can give up in order to allow the liberals to save face. It is good for America because it is for all citizens.

stellauk -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 9:52:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM The Islamic radicals appear intent on committing genocide. They want to take Israel off the map and kill all the Jews. I fear that Obama is a weakling. The problem is diplomacy only works with people willing to come to an agreement, but they are not willing to come to any agreement. They want their way and that is it. These are not people you can reason with. They do not require having been wronged for them to do the things they are doing; consequently, there is no wrong to be made right. It is not revenge they seek. They want their way and nothing less than their way. It seems likely they fear that this is the time to act because if they fail to do so now they will go by way of the dinosaur. This is their last hurrah. They are going to go extinct, they figure they might as well take the Jews with them. Some believe that our economy may soon collapse. I suspect that the Islamic radicals believe that Obama is a weakling who will give them time and the next President will be a stronger military leader, but strong at a time when we cannot afford to be strong. They may be hoping that American will soon fall into a deep depression that will cause America to fall much like the Soviet Union fell when it was put under economic pressure. The war will put us under economic pressure. I'm guessing, they figure that it may be enough to break the camel's back. How must we respond? We need to put our propaganda machine into full fear in preparation for World War III and wake up to the fact that we need to put aside political correctness. Grandma is not a potential terrorist. She never was. We did not do wrong in World War II. The war needs to uplift the economy, not tear it down. We need to stop suspecting grandma of being a terrorist in order to for us to be politically correct. It was a waste of resources and caused us to eat ourselves alive. More specifically, we need to stop pursuing highly speculative conjectures concerning who a potential terrorist is. There is only one sort, Islamic radical. They are the enemy. Having said that I still believe that Obama is right about universal health care. We shouldn't give that up. Why? Medical care was at one time a luxury item, when medicine really couldn't do anything for you. Today it can do a great deal for you. That is why it is no longer a luxury item. This is something the liberals got right. The liberals and conservatives are going to need to become less polarized. It is something the conservatives can give up in order to allow the liberals to save face. It is good for America because it is for all citizens. You have a rather vivid imagination.

blacksword404 -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 10:15:01 PM)
Fr~ I was listening to the radio news guy talk about this. His words were " U.S. united nations ambassador claims there is no evidence the attacks were planned. A Syrian official claims there is no doubt in his mind they were premeditated." Now this makes me laugh. It seems we are trying to position things so we don't have to take any action. But there probably is no way to do that without appearing weak ( or revealing weakness).

Rule -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 10:43:10 PM)
So go get yourself some facts.

subrob1967 -> RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. (9/16/2012 11:36:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shoedaddy This blowback is not about some film. This is blowback against U.S. foreign policy. Hillary is lying to you in an effort to keep the focus away from calling it what it is. Yes the movie pisses off Muslims, but our foreign policy is far worse than whatever that movie can throw at them. I'm surprised its taken this long. 11th anniversary of the 9-11-01 attack... It's all about the symbolic date.

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