Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away?

Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (Full Version)

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oregongirl -> Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/27/2012 9:27:29 PM)
For ease of this conversation, I am using the term "her" and "she" as the submissive so I do not need to keep changing pronouns. I would like to ask the ones who are Masters here....when You or the other has just met online and just getting to know each other, say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? If so, is this a test to see if she is a true submissive? If the sub is not comfortable just yet in consenting to said orders or rules, would you dump the sub? If so, why? What would be Your criteria when you are seeking a faithful submissive who wants to please but that sub is only looking after herself and being cautious? Would You not respect he even more? I understand that AFTER a commitment has been made, then I would agree that a sub like myself would want to please and give over control to Him. I am merely asking how you would approach the girl when still in the "getting to know you stage" and what you would expect from her in terms of addressing you and how fast would you be in demanding her to do certain things assuming she she is not ready, but still showing interest?

MrRodgers -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/27/2012 9:48:59 PM)
I'll answer this for you as reflected by my experience. Coming to the net, I had no idea about how many days, weeks or months it would be before either the conversation would change or planning for any meeting. After two weeks however, I was dominating and she was submitting and deferring to my wishes and conversation online. I have never had it take longer and is usually much sooner than two weeks. I choose the phone in short order and keep chatting only if I think there is great promise and as often...it stays there. However, it isn't long after two weeks that we soon meet for coffee and even then we've quite often chosen to play but rarely. Once in chat and the phone, further steps if required are then taken to 'look after herself.' It is at that point we either meet or we very likely...never meet. Oh and submission is not a gift. It is either inspired in her or there is usually no submission at all.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/27/2012 9:49:33 PM)
I'm not a master, but I'll answer anyway. Anyone who wants to force a dynamic on you by expecting you to call them Sir or Maam or Grand Poobah is new, an idiot, or both. Dom/sub relationships should not be rushed. There are people who do rush them, and what they end up with is a great big mess 99% of the time. This ridiculous idea you have in your head of it being a test of true submission is just that in my mind, a ridiculous idea. I was once working on a relationship (in real life BTW) with someone, he asked, why don't you call me Sir, I said, I'm not ready yet, he said, okay. He understood forcing the pace of the dynamic does not engender trust. And the number one thing any good dominant should be doing in the beginning phases of a relationship is building trust. "Testing" the relationship in stupid ways does not build trust. When I am in the getting to know a submissive stage, I make it clear there will be no honorifics in play, since male subs tend to be the ones who like to push that. I make it clear that we will relate as friends on a getting to know basis until we're not. We will flirt. We will talk about what we like kink wise. We will make minor forays into how we would relate to one another in an actual dynamic. Please realize that you are talking to someone who doesn't enter into a dynamic with people before I meet them. And once I meet them, then I like a nice long time to get to know them as friends. We may play together, but it's generally non sexual and relatively low key. For me, this whole thing we do, it's mostly about the mind, so until I know someone very well, I can't really get what I want from them as a sub. B/c what I want is to get into their head. I mean, they can serve me a beverage, or paint my toenails, but I can pay people to do that. Real submission is about the brain having achieved a certain mindset, and in my never humble opinion, this cannot be rushed.

JanahX -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/27/2012 11:02:35 PM)
This is from my sub view of your questions: say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? I wouldnt do it - if someone asked me that, Id laugh at them. I dont do protocol - its not my thing. If so, is this a test to see if she is a true submissive? A true submissive? Whats that? If the sub is not comfortable just yet in consenting to said orders or rules, would you dump the sub? Id be long gone before he even thought about dumping me. If so, why? Because Id think he was an idiot. What would be Your criteria when you are seeking a faithful submissive who wants to please but that sub is only looking after herself and being cautious? I look after myself and Im cautious because I have self esteem and being cautious on the internet is just using good common sense. Would You not respect he even more? I could care less if the Dom respected me for those reasons - I would just naturally expect that the person was smart enough to take those two things for granted. I am merely asking how you would approach the girl when still in the "getting to know you stage" and what you would expect from her in terms of addressing you and how fast would you be in demanding her to do certain things assuming she she is not ready, but still showing interest? I address people by their first name. And I start doing things for them when theyve earned my trust and respect.

Alecta -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/27/2012 11:47:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oregongirl For ease of this conversation, I am using the term "her" and "she" as the submissive so I do not need to keep changing pronouns. I would like to ask the ones who are Masters here....when You or the other has just met online and just getting to know each other, say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? If so, is this a test to see if she is a true submissive? If the sub is not comfortable just yet in consenting to said orders or rules, would you dump the sub? If so, why? What would be Your criteria when you are seeking a faithful submissive who wants to please but that sub is only looking after herself and being cautious? Would You not respect he even more? I understand that AFTER a commitment has been made, then I would agree that a sub like myself would want to please and give over control to Him. I am merely asking how you would approach the girl when still in the "getting to know you stage" and what you would expect from her in terms of addressing you and how fast would you be in demanding her to do certain things assuming she she is not ready, but still showing interest? No, I don't expect instant submission. I'm uncomfortable with it as it is usually a sign that you're off in your own little fantasy world and it doesn't involve me. I don't expect to be addressed with honorifics, only with respect. In terms of being addressed, I tend to flat out ignore the ones who use stupid titles like "Goddess". They rarely have anything to say anyway. I let being addressed as Mistress, Miss or variations thereof slide, although presumptions that I am "their Mistress" makes me roll my eyes. I am used to being addressed as and using addresses like "ma'am" or "sir" due to a paramilitary youth. So while it isn't something I expect, I do find it comforting. The thing about rules is a bit grey. I mean, you can argue that a Dom/me's preferences in people and how they are spoken to are rules, but sometimes it's just how we'd prefer to be treated. So is my dropping someone for constantly pestering me for cam sessions because they "broke my rules" or because I'm just plain not into an online relationship? Is dropping someone from consideration because they won't stop creating essays upon essays of their fantasies where you're their Owner because they broke your rules or won't follow your orders for them to stop? Or because you're just not into that sort of nonsense? At a certain point, there is a test. But for me, it's not a test to see if you're "submissive" or even submissive "enough", it's more a test to see if you're real and serious or just another keyboard junkie. The test is usually whether you're going to turn up for coffee with me. Sometimes, it's just the attitude in something passing -- for example in passing the sub mentions it has a problem or some kind of goal or concern, and in passing you make some suggestions just to be helpful. For that to be taken as an order is typically an orange flag for me. For the sub in question to counter with complaints or excuses results in my walking away -- but not because they're not being submissive, it's because of what it says about them as a person. But I also can't consider submission a gift. It isn't a present, it is a responsibility. It isn't precious, it just is. It is absurd to hold valuable the abstracted act of submission because that in itself has no value. What is valuable, or rather, capable of having value, is the relationship you build with a person and a person themselves, through what they are and not what they do.

areallivehuman -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 3:44:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oregongirl For ease of this conversation, I am using the term "her" and "she" as the submissive so I do not need to keep changing pronouns. I would like to ask the ones who are Masters here....when You or the other has just met online and just getting to know each other, say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? If so, is this a test to see if she is a true submissive? If the sub is not comfortable just yet in consenting to said orders or rules, would you dump the sub? If so, why? What would be Your criteria when you are seeking a faithful submissive who wants to please but that sub is only looking after herself and being cautious? Would You not respect he even more? I understand that AFTER a commitment has been made, then I would agree that a sub like myself would want to please and give over control to Him. I am merely asking how you would approach the girl when still in the "getting to know you stage" and what you would expect from her in terms of addressing you and how fast would you be in demanding her to do certain things assuming she she is not ready, but still showing interest? If I was conversing with a prospective partner, I would not expect titles, nor obedience. Since I am uninterested in an on-line "relationship", I would expect a face to face, public meeting, after a couple of weeks of talking.

kalikshama -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 4:27:39 AM)
quote: when You or the other has just met online and just getting to know each other, say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? Is this talking on the phone or do you mean email/chat? Have you met IRL? If not, it's been weeks, why not? Like I said yesterday in the other thread: After two long distance relationships that didn't work out because they were very different in person, I would never, ever accept an assignment, and thus D/s dynamic, from someone who I had not yet met. If it's been weeks and he's local and we've not yet met, then I write him off as too busy to date. (That's the nice conclusion.) If he's long distance then I would not have engaged him in the first place. My state is heavily populated with lots of kinksters and I am not relocatable, so I have that criteria. Let me know if you HAVE met, and like him, and just want to take it slowly, and I will answer that scenario.

crazyml -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 4:49:27 AM)
Hello Ms Gorgeous Legs, Here's my take... quote: ORIGINAL: oregongirl when You or the other has just met online and just getting to know each other, say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? Ok... To start with the "being called Sir" thing does nothing for me. While I've seen some brilliant relationships where the protocol required the use of honorifics like "Sir", more often than not I see it as a rather silly, if not pathetic, affectation on the part of the Dom. So.. my answer is "fuck no!" But but... I've encountered sub fems who like to use the term, sometimes because it's simply her preference, sometimes it's used to signal a change in mode/mood. As for the timing... I'm not really interested in "dominating" someone I don't know, so any d/s would have to wait till after an in person meeting. quote: If so, is this a test to see if she is a true submissive? If the sub is not comfortable just yet in consenting to said orders or rules, would you dump the sub? If so, why? I'll bet it is used as a kind of test... but the ungracious part of me would say "Yeah, he wants to know how soon he can get you doing kinky shit for him so he can get off on it". Now, he's not going to wait around... he needs to cum! As for how long I'd wait.... if someone is interesting, stimulating, and appears to be a good match in terms of personality / kinks etc then I'm happy to wait a while. But if I start to think it's going nowhere, then I'm not going to pursue it as a possible "kinky" relationship - Although I'd be more than happy to stay in touch on a friendly basis. quote: What would be Your criteria when you are seeking a faithful submissive who wants to please but that sub is only looking after herself and being cautious? Would You not respect he even more? Absolutely, I would be MUCH more likely to respect someone who took her time. quote: I understand that AFTER a commitment has been made, then I would agree that a sub like myself would want to please and give over control to Him. I am merely asking how you would approach the girl when still in the "getting to know you stage" and what you would expect from her in terms of addressing you and how fast would you be in demanding her to do certain things assuming she she is not ready, but still showing interest? As I've said... For me, Dom dudes that insist on being called "Sir", especially early on, are suspect (And I do mean "suspect" - they're not "guilty" of being jackasses, but there is a suspicion that they might be). If she's still interested, and still interesting, then fuck... I could wait months (although, I do want to get laid, so wouldn't stop looking in the meantime). If she wants exclusivity on the other hand... yeah, we need to know there's chemistry which, for me, can't really be established till we've met in person. AAAAnyhoooo... Judging by the way you framed the question, I reckon you know the answer already, and just need a bit of confirmation. I'm guessing that you've encountered someone who wanted to push you faster than you wanted to go, and that he was miffed that you wouldn't. If that's the case, then I'd wager a box of donuts that the dude was just after some online relief..... so it's worked out well (for you at least) that he's moved on. [ED for typos]

tsatske -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 4:50:26 AM)
I will personally put up with being asked to call someone 'sir', though usually if they ask me that, they quit talking to me right after I answer, 'sure, I can do that. I mean, after all, I call the boy who bags my groceries sir'. If there are tests I usually try to fail them. That's strange, because I'm a really nice person. i answer all email. I think being a male on this site is tough - women can get hundreds of emails, but men can send out hundreds before getting an answer. I consider it a service to the community to make at least a passing attempt at educating someone who acts like they've never been around real kinky people - or real people - in thier life. So if I get a message from someone calling me a slut, telling me what a great pig I'd make, or ordering me to get on my knees, I write back and ask if they'd walk up to a stranger on the street and say that. I only quit writing to people when they don't fly strait after that - which is almost always. No one should expect anything of you that goes beyond the relationship you have devoloped with them - any more than you would accept in a vanilla relationship. One local guy asked me out last month changed his mind when, upon being asked, I told him that yes, I was serrious - I do not have sex or play when I am not in a bonded, long term relationship. His answer was, 'I figured we'd meet for coffee first, but a long term commitment, just for sex?' I don't owe him sex. One guy a couple years ago I did meet, in a public place, seemed nice and normal. We had never really talked about sex (I would prefer talking about rather we have anything in common on the vanilla side). We met in a public place, had a nice dinner, and walked out together. He walked me to my car. He turned to me, and while I was try to decide in my head, based on that movement, if there was enough of a spark for me to want to kiss him - he stuck his hand down my bra. really. I guess there is a test, a kind of on going test. Not to see if your a real, true submissive. If you feel submissive and your intersted in meeting real people, you are. Not to see if your 'submissive enough'. To see if your a match, the two of you. And the test goes both ways. Act like an idiot - or, in the above case, touch me without my permission - and the answer is a resounding 'NO'.

chatterbox24 -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 5:08:22 AM)
[quoteAnyone who wants to force a dynamic on you by expecting you to call them Sir or Maam or Grand Poobah is new, an idiot, or both][/quote] Oh where, oh where has my Grand Pooplah gone, oh where oh where could he be.......... I want to call a Dom Grand POOPLAH, but after I find he isnt an idiot. [:D]

tsatske -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 5:11:21 AM)
My second Master, who is still a dear friend to me, ran a munch when we lived together. He was called the Grand Pubah. I'm pretty sure it was a Domme friend of ours who started that. he was very good natured about it. (i.e. - not an idiot)

DarkSteven -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 6:06:14 AM)
If at any time she wishes to call me Sir, she may. I'm .not bjg on honorifics. In my opinion, they are bestowed willingly by a submissive, not demanded. After two weeks, I'd likely be asking you to do little, nonsexual things to see if you felt right in submitting to me in small things. If not, then I would reevaluate. I wouldn't think of it as a test of your submissiveness but as an indication of how well matched we were. There are some awesome submissives here who would be bad matches for me and vice versa. Your scenario happened with me and a sub from this site. I gave her a simple order and she had clear issues with it. I followed up and it turned out that she had not realized how hard relocation would be for her. Things stopped tgere, but we're still friends.

LaTigresse -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 7:43:39 AM)
I prefer a woman's submission to me, be internally driven by the woman she is discovering me to be. Until them, we are two people getting to know one another.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 7:54:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske My second Master, who is still a dear friend to me, ran a munch when we lived together. He was called the Grand Pubah. I'm pretty sure it was a Domme friend of ours who started that. he was very good natured about it. (i.e. - not an idiot) In that case, I expect everyone to start calling me Grand Pubah now. Or is that Grand Pubahess? Oh that sounds so sordid , I like it !!

OsideGirl -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 7:56:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oregongirl say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? My personal opinion is that there is no D/s until you've met face to face. 1) It's a fantasy that causes genital thinking rather than paying attention with your brain. 2) It confuses the issue if you've already been submitting, you meet face to face and decide you don't like him. He's wondering why you're not willing to go home and play because after all you've already submitted to him.

mnottertail -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 7:58:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske My second Master, who is still a dear friend to me, ran a munch when we lived together. He was called the Grand Pubah. I'm pretty sure it was a Domme friend of ours who started that. he was very good natured about it. (i.e. - not an idiot) In that case, I expect everyone to start calling me Grand Pubah now. Or is that Grand Pubahess? Oh that sounds so sordid , I like it !! I'll fuckin sue!!!! The GrandPubic

GreedyTop -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 8:07:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: oregongirl say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? My personal opinion is that there is no D/s until you've met face to face. 1) It's a fantasy that causes genital thinking rather than paying attention with your brain. 2) It confuses the issue if you've already been submitting, you meet face to face and decide you don't like him. He's wondering why you're not willing to go home and play because after all you've already submitted to him. I agree.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 8:38:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I'll fuckin sue!!!! The GrandPubic If that's the case, I'll pick up my marble and go home to Mom ! I mean it this time buster !! Oh wait, I aint' got no marbles, I just have a Grand Pubahess. <big pout here> I'm telling MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !!

Toysinbabeland -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 8:48:31 AM)
there is however, a difference between submitting your mind, and submitting your body. when the two unite, it is a special occurrence, like enjoying a vintage bottle of wine.

LaTigresse -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 8:52:20 AM)
I don't want the body if the mind isn't already there.

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