RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (Full Version)

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WhipLuvr -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 9:28:52 AM)

I must say, as a sub, what you all have to say is very reassuring. I certainly wouldn't feel safe with someone who expects to be called Sir right off the bat.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 9:38:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I don't want the body if the mind isn't already there.



Extremely well stated, short and to the point.




oregongirl -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 10:37:55 AM)

I am the OP, and I can see where I made some grammar errors, left out some pertinent information about my experience and some other errors on my part where I wanted to convey accurately what my true questions are, but it came out sounding different after I re-read. You guys/guys are good! You really look at each word and address them very descriptively. Some here look at the overall picture and just answer based on your own experiences. I am grateful for both types of responses.

He and I meet on another site. His profile sounded like someone I would really like to get to know. He lives in my home town. He had some exchanges for a few days on the site and enjoyed communicating. He made me laugh and showed interest by asking what I enjoyed doing in my free time and I questioned him. That went well, so we decided to bring our conversations to personal email. He doesn’t believe in instant messaging or camming and I thought, “wow, that’s a first” and was delighted about that. We decided to meet up in a public place to watch a football game at a sports bar. Our chemistry was electric. We sat close to each other, looked at each other in the eyes as we talked, a little touch with a hand on the thigh felt great. Before we departed, we had our first kiss and that was amazing, and he whispered in my ear something erotic which made me go weak in the knees.

Back to email, I gave him my cell phone number. At first, I thoroughly enjoyed his good morning greetings by phone. We met up a second time at a public place to listen to a live band. The evening went well, had lots of fun. Then he asked if he wanted to go over to his place where it was private. I said, “no, I don’t feel comfortable yet in doing that”.

He kept on requesting me to go out with him again I have been going through a lot of time consuming activities at work and in my personal life, so each time he asked me to go somewhere with him, I would have to turn him down, not because I did not want to see him again, but I had too much on my plate (this was over a week’s period of time). I started noticing he started to become more persistent (and I’m leaving stuff out here because I need to go to work soon), He also started calling me his Pet and asked me to call him Sir. And when I turned him down to drop everything and go out with him on a work night where I still needed to shower and eat, he left me another phone V-mail and said, “you are not being a good sub” and “I’m losing interest” I even assured him we definitely could meet up the following weekend. Yesterday was the last straw. I was at work and forgot to put my phone on vibrate. and started saying in email and phone messages, “ you need to get fucked and used, so let me know when we can get together, I won’t wait forever”. That was the first time I saw this side of him. At this point, I had decided I am not going to get together again with this man.

He called me 5 times demanding that I do as he says, or else. I had my laptop at work and I emailed him saying “please stop calling me while I am at work and what do you mean by “or else”. He replied, “Or else you will not see me again and you are so fucked up you should take down your profile because you are misleading men”. Actually, I thought that was not a bad idea and have since changed it to looking for casual dating and that I want to get to know someone first. He started to scare me because his hostile reactions became more intense and his language became vulgar and almost threatening. He knows what my car looks like. He knows the area in which I live and he knows the area in which I work. I blocked him on my cell phone. I was stunned that his behavior changed so much. He was getting to the point where he was implying that he owned me. After two dates? I’m wondering if I was misleading? Should I have not kissed him? Should I have not flirted with him and played with on the phone with dirty talk? I’m trying to learn for my next encounter with a man. People can hide many aspects of their personality, but I’m glad I found out quickly how demanding he really is. I know I’m going out of sequence here but before I blocked him from my cell phone, he emailed me and said, “good bye and good luck!”. So he dropped me as a possibility because I turned him down twice to get together? I gave him my reasons which were true and I simply could not get out on the days/times he wanted. His profile is completely different. On it, he said that he is patient, gentle and respectful.

Dating used to be so much more simple back when I was in high school and college There we could see each other daily at school and a person can see some consistency in their behaviors. Nowadays, it appears that meeting someone online is the thing and there is a huge risk in starting something when you never really know them. That is why I changed my profile. There really is no way to know if a person’s profile is authentic. They are trying to put their best features out there. I guess what has me stumped is why the fixation on me? Why can’t he just go on to the next woman who has more flexibility in her schedule? We are done, but I’m hoping to learn from this.




tsatske -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 10:51:29 AM)

Not everyone is a jerk or a clown. He is. There are some losers who can behave themselves well for a while, then they come out of their monkey suit. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong. At any time did you do something you didn't feel comfortable with? I'm not bashing you if you did, but if you did, if you got talked into doing something you were uncomfortable with, don't do that again. Dating is just like vanilla dating, with the exciting possiblity that you'll get to play sometime - just like the exciting possiblity in vanilla dating that you might want to have sex with this person sometime in the future. When you feel ready - not now. It is perfectly reasonable to not want to go private with someone on a second date. It is reasonable to have a busy week where you can't see the person you are dating, no matter how serious the dating is. A Master well matched to you would understand and be supportive of you. It is reasonable to say, 'I'm not ready to have you call me names yet, please don't speak to me like that'. It is reasonable to tell someone you are uncomfortable with declarations of love you don't share, and with declarations of ownership you haven't agreed to. It's not your fault for kissing him - that did not convey ownership or give hiim permission to do the things you describe. Of course, permission to go to the next level always has to be a little bit assumed, or the species would die out. So you do have a responsiblity to say, 'no, I'm not comfortable doing that', or, 'I'm not comfortable with talking this way'. Did you even have conversation in which he found out if you would enjoy being talked to like that? Even if you did, btw, it is still perfectly reasonable to say, 'I'm not ready for this yet'. Yes, if you say it repeatedly, it probably means your not a match, but that's okay. The only way to find your prince is to kiss a bunch of frogs.




RemoteUser -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 10:53:59 AM)

People advance in relationships with personal comfort, which often entails the basics you would expect - familiarity, honesty, trust and so on. This is true regardless of the relationship's nature (or those involved, for that matter).

Putting expectations on what people will do and when is unrealistic without some kind of affirmation from them. Even then, people change, things can be misinterpreted. If in doubt, clarify; if the misunderstandings persist then there's a communication breakdown which should be addressed.

In your example, things broke down and you took steps commensurate to your needs. If you're asking whether or not you did the right thing, the only one who can answer that is you; and if you're asking why it happens, the variables are too vast to give a single comprehensive answer. Don't ask "what if", just know what you want and be true to that.




sexyred1 -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:01:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I don't want the body if the mind isn't already there.


That sounds good in theory, but I don't think enough people subscribe to that line of thinking. Many think they want someone smart, but in reality, they prefer someone moldable.




OsideGirl -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:05:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oregongirl
And when I turned him down to drop everything and go out with him on a work night where I still needed to shower and eat, he left me another phone V-mail and said, “you are not being a good sub” and “I’m losing interest”


quote:

Yesterday was the last straw. I was at work and forgot to put my phone on vibrate. and started saying in email and phone messages, “ you need to get fucked and used, so let me know when we can get together, I won’t wait forever”. That was the first time I saw this side of him. At this point, I had decided I am not going to get together again with this man.

He called me 5 times demanding that I do as he says, or else. I had my laptop at work and I emailed him saying “please stop calling me while I am at work and what do you mean by “or else”.


quote:

He replied, “Or else you will not see me again and you are so fucked up you should take down your profile because you are misleading men”.


Umm.....yeah. He doesn't respect boundaries, or your job. I would have actually dropped him when he said the "not a good sub" comment because don't tolerate the blackmail BS, especially when it has to do with the roof over my head.

You did well taking it slow. Can you imagine what you'd be going through if you had just flung yourself into the deep end of the pool?

There are good guys out there. Keep positive.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:07:46 AM)

Dating is often a good news, bad news thing.

The bad news: he was a controlling asshat jerk. The good news: you found out right away.

It doesn't sound like you did a thing wrong. BDSM type dating is just like vanilla dating unless/until you have an agreed upon dynamic in place.

If you weren't looking at this man as your dom or master or grand poobah, what would you be telling yourself? Would it be okay to be busy and to say no?

Of course it would. It's smart to want to take it slow and build trust, you know that.

Reality does not get suspended b/c you are seeking a dominant partner.

In my big rule book in the sky, submissives are allowed to be busy, to have excellent self-esteem, to know their boundaries, and to say no if they feel the need. Their D-type may expect an explanation (I know mine would), but they are still allowed. Even when they are in a relationship, okay?

You did good, oregon, keep it up.




LaTigresse -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:10:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I don't want the body if the mind isn't already there.


That sounds good in theory, but I don't think enough people subscribe to that line of thinking. Many think they want someone smart, but in reality, they prefer someone moldable.


I get what you are saying.

Perhaps my point was a bit too succinct. I am not looking for rocket scientists, not that I mind them... But my point is that if her head isn't submitting, having her simply go through the motions to get her kink on isn't going to do anything for me. In fact, it would piss me off because it would be a lie. I can live without the kink but I won't put up with someone pretending to submit. I want her to WANT it, to NEEEEEEEED to submit. For the mental dynamic to already be there, inside her. And I want that to be created by me being ME!

If it ain't there, it ain't there. I am not going to pout or go cry in my witch's brew. I sure as hell won't take it out on her that she isn't feeling it. We may even be able to be friends. But I won't pretend something exists when it doesn't.




mnottertail -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:11:39 AM)

So none of you girls is big on zombies then?




LaTigresse -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:14:55 AM)

Naww.......zombies have bad personal hygiene.




mnottertail -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:17:53 AM)

But they ain't gonna hound you about if their dicks are big enough.....so it washes out....




LaTigresse -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:32:27 AM)

Okay. CLEAN zombie slaves that are 100% without dicks.




wolf223 -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:51:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oregongirl

For ease of this conversation, I am using the term "her" and "she" as the submissive so I do not need to keep changing pronouns.

I would like to ask the ones who are Masters here....when You or the other has just met online and just getting to know each other, say after a couple of weeks of talking and there is still no consent to submit or dominate, would You expect the sub to say "Sir" or expect the sub to follow your orders or rules? If so, is this a test to see if she is a true submissive? If the sub is not comfortable just yet in consenting to said orders or rules, would you dump the sub? If so, why?

What would be Your criteria when you are seeking a faithful submissive who wants to please but that sub is only looking after herself and being cautious? Would You not respect he even more?

I understand that AFTER a commitment has been made, then I would agree that a sub like myself would want to please and give over control to Him. I am merely asking how you would approach the girl when still in the "getting to know you stage" and what you would expect from her in terms of addressing you and how fast would you be in demanding her to do certain things assuming she she is not ready, but still showing interest?


No,No,No,No.
Yes
I approach a potential sub just like any other woman I meet.
My girl and I have been together over ten years she uses my
name and an I use hers. She started doing what I wanted when
she was ready. She became mine when she asked to be.
It is just a relationship like any other untill the two of you make
it more.




ARIES83 -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:56:15 AM)

quote:

quote: ARIES83

Look, there are actual guys out there who are
Not liars, they are not cheating or using D/s to
get blow-jobs but you have to wade through a
hell of a lot of shitheads to find them so you can
either become a nun or keep searching, if you
keep looking expect to run into more wankers,
but keep your mind on the goal and don't get
let it get to you.

For me I would go from CMail very quickly and
hit MSN messenger or something for real time
texting, I don't have a cam but I would probably
buy one to play around and see what skypes like.

At this point we would have both seen what the
other looks like, and found out any information
like kids, job, likes & dislikes that might be deal
breakers No commands, just two people
getting to know each other.

Then I would suggest a meet if all was going well,
like cafe lunch followed by some light shopping
and knowing me probably bad jokes and clever
flirting!

The point is, If a "Dom" at any point before your
comfortable with him, tries to use D/s as shortcut
to bypass the need for having relationship skills,
he is either inexperienced or a player IMO.


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4242470

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4232261


-Aries




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 11:57:10 AM)

People have been calling me "ma'am" since I was about twelve, I don't take any stock in it. My name is Francine, or some version of Hib, and that's what I expect to be called. I will absolutely shut down attempts to throw some title at me, because in those early days I am NOT that person's dominant, and I am not taking on that responsibility lightly. I don't care if he/she DOES remember how I like my coffee and brings it to me without asking. That is what is called "sucking up" and is only wise. [;)]
(okay, "anticipatory service" whatevs)

Talking is just talking. Friendships can develop from that, absolutely, and the best dynamics start that way IMO. I agree that you just don't know until you meet someone face to face. That phrase "I'm not everyone's dominant/submissive" is absolutely true. There are some fantastic masochists out there that I don't have any desire to play with, they just don't excite me that way.

Someone who expects to do some task, or who expects to give orders, without any real contact or agreement? Well, they're playing a game. They should go to Second Life and have a blast.




kalikshama -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 12:06:30 PM)

quote:

He called me 5 times demanding that I do as he says, or else. I had my laptop at work and I emailed him saying “please stop calling me while I am at work and what do you mean by “or else”. He replied, “Or else you will not see me again and you are so fucked up you should take down your profile because you are misleading men”. Actually, I thought that was not a bad idea and have since changed it to looking for casual dating and that I want to get to know someone first. He started to scare me because his hostile reactions became more intense and his language became vulgar and almost threatening. He knows what my car looks like. He knows the area in which I live and he knows the area in which I work. I blocked him on my cell phone. I was stunned that his behavior changed so much. He was getting to the point where he was implying that he owned me. After two dates? I’m wondering if I was misleading? Should I have not kissed him? Should I have not flirted with him and played with on the phone with dirty talk?


I usually kiss on the first date and flirt before it. This does not mean I've consented to being owned.

This guy's bad boundaries are not your fault. Good thing you had a busy week and found out before you got too emotionally invested.

I was dating a guy who, after the first or second time we had sex, which was not long after we met, told me he wanted to marry me and impregnate me. (I was 43 and said on my profile (we met on a vanilla date site) that I had no interest in having children.)

That should have clued me in to drop him on the spot, but I went on to endure another few months of drama.




amaidiamond -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 12:15:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

People have been calling me "ma'am" since I was about twelve, I don't take any stock in it. My name is Francine, or some version of Hib, and that's what I expect to be called. I will absolutely shut down attempts to throw some title at me, because in those early days I am NOT that person's dominant, and I am not taking on that responsibility lightly. I don't care if he/she DOES remember how I like my coffee and brings it to me without asking. That is what is called "sucking up" and is only wise. [;)]
(okay, "anticipatory service" whatevs)

Talking is just talking. Friendships can develop from that, absolutely, and the best dynamics start that way IMO. I agree that you just don't know until you meet someone face to face. That phrase "I'm not everyone's dominant/submissive" is absolutely true. There are some fantastic masochists out there that I don't have any desire to play with, they just don't excite me that way.

Someone who expects to do some task, or who expects to give orders, without any real contact or agreement? Well, they're playing a game. They should go to Second Life and have a blast.


Well said Miss Hibiscus... I mean Ma'am... I mean ummm Goddess.. *runs like hell*

OP - the due sounds a total douche and totally in the wrong




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 12:28:45 PM)

Hmmm.... Goddess.... nah. I always figure if someone wants to put me on a pedestal, it's to look up my skirt more easily.

There's something to be said for not being too free with a phone number, I reckon, but I am from the generation where you HAD to talk on the phone... I would certainly block his number. Anyone who tries to interfere with your work day is a dingus.




amaidiamond -> RE: Is submissiveness a gift to You or expected right away? (9/28/2012 12:35:47 PM)

quote:

Hmmm.... Goddess.... nah. I always figure if someone wants to put me on a pedestal, it's to look up my skirt more easily.


Now that made me snort laughing




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